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Old 09-25-2020, 07:09 PM #31
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LOL... it’s a proposed 0.4% tax on wealth earned in CA BEYOND $30M, and % taxable declines each year after you’ve moved. How close are you to having $30M in assets? Guessing not very.

Wealth taxes are nothing new and won’t get anywhere near “upper middle class,” which, by the way, is marked as up to $2M net worth / wealth, or 6% of the mark set by the proposal.

Easy, slugger.
Hey sdemo! Slugger, the exdemo here. My personal poverty is not the subject, but you are correct, not even close in 10 lifetimes. But a rotten fish still smells like a rotten fish, no matter how poor I am.
A tax on someone who has moved out of state makes no sense to me, however you want to break it down. Not really sure how it can be legal. In my opinion as more and more people leave CA, there will be more proposals of this type. But a Government billions of dollars in debt has to clutch at straws. You can justify it any way you want, you won't change my mind. The actions of the CA government and others like it have already done that. Registered Independent and voted Democrat across the board for decades, but never again. One thing I do know, people are moving to Florida in droves, and my parents in AZ say the same thing there about Californians. But hey, at least CA won't have far to go to get their unconstitutional 10 year tax collection.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:02 PM #32
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BUT, it is an executive order that he signed. According to the article.

California Governor Newsom has signed an executive order that bans the sale of new gas-powered passenger cars in California starting in 2035.


Read the EO itself, not the article: https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/up...79-20-text.pdf

I’m not a lawyer (and neither is the editor who OKed that ridiculous headline), but this seems pretty clearly a proposal, not law.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:03 PM #33
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but please, STOP moving to Colorado...
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:06 PM #34
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Read the EO itself, not the article: https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/up...79-20-text.pdf

I’m not a lawyer (and neither is the editor who OKed that ridiculous headline), but this seems pretty clearly a proposal, not law.
Thanks for that info. It does call it EXECUTIVE ORDER N-79-20, which I believe carries the weight of law. A bit more than a proposal, I think. No expert here, either :-)
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:32 PM #35
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I think I would have to agree with most of these posts. Especially about moving to Kalirado. and screwing it up. But another twist. I think he is trying to take credit for something that will happen anyway. The natural progression of the market will drive the move to electric vehicles. Probably better than the gubermint pushing it. Electrics will come of age, rapidly without govt. All the govt will do is screw it up. They will be less expensive to drive, handle better,, be quicker, and with a lot less moving parts, more likely to go many more miles with less maintenance. So i think Gavin is just trying to take credit for something he doesn't (or shouldn't ) have control over. If I remember right pelosi once said the gubermint should decide what kind of car you can buy with your hard earned dollars. The big thing will be, How do you deal with the batteries? Environmental catastrophe those pesky batteries. Autonomous driving will become common as well. Imagine telling your phone app that you want to be at a place at a certain time. The autonomous car pulls up in your driveway at exactly the right time. You get in the back, drink your latte, and it deposits you where you want to go at precisely the right time. Because it knows exactly what the traffic will be and exactly when to pick you up. All for pennies. Because the car lasts for a million miles with no maintenance, and recharges itself from the grid imbedded in the paint on the roof. Great new world. UNLESS, your a dinosaur like me and like manual tranny's and locking hubs, and stuff like "66 Corvette Roadsters.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:33 PM #36
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Thanks for that info. It does call it EXECUTIVE ORDER N-79-20, which I believe carries the weight of law. A bit more than a proposal, I think. No expert here, either :-)


We could go round and round on this, but...

Executive Orders & Proclamations - California Administrative Law - LibGuides at UCLA School of Law - Hugh & Hazel Darling Law Library

UCLA says: “The California Governor issues both proclamations and executive orders. Proclamations tend to be ceremonial in nature (e.g. declaring Veteran's Day or Native American Heritage Month), while executive orders tend to order some sort of agency action (e.g. ordering agencies to engage in bulk purchasing of generic drugs or inventory available sites for affordable housing).”

In the EO, Newsom is telling some agency what to do (on my phone and hard to multitask) - he’s not setting state law.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:39 PM #37
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We could go round and round on this, but...

Executive Orders & Proclamations - California Administrative Law - LibGuides at UCLA School of Law - Hugh & Hazel Darling Law Library

UCLA says: “The California Governor issues both proclamations and executive orders. Proclamations tend to be ceremonial in nature (e.g. declaring Veteran's Day or Native American Heritage Month), while executive orders tend to order some sort of agency action (e.g. ordering agencies to engage in bulk purchasing of generic drugs or inventory available sites for affordable housing).”

In the EO, Newsom is telling some agency what to do (on my phone and hard to multitask) - he’s not setting state law.
Agreed we could go round and round, so I’ll stop.
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:18 PM #38
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To those of you living in California, does Gavin really have the support of most of the people in the state? Honest question. I can’t imagine that most people go along with a lot of the things he does. Like this thread - insisting on (eventually) all-electric cars in a state that mandates rolling blackouts is like insisting that everyone travel by boat in the desert. Insisting on all-electric cars under any condition is wrong, regardless. That’s not the governor’s job.

Depends largely where in the state you take your sample from. The vast majority in the Bay Area seem to like him, but they also seem to like human feces and heroin needles strewn about their streets and sidewalks, so take that as you will. Most people I socialize with, and I admit isn’t a large number in the grand scheme of things, either dislike him or are indifferent towards him (a mix of R’s, I’s and D’s and different backgrounds, which was interesting).
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Old 09-26-2020, 03:45 AM #39
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I drove a Tesla once. The technology takes some getting used to. But the acceleration is like being in a rocket ship. I wouldn’t mind if a new version of the 4Runner had a little of that.
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:11 PM #40
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Electric vehicles blow goats.

Until an EV can get a full charge in under 5 minutes and have a 400 mile range mandating them is idiocy. But that's the job of dimwitted bed wetting liberals. Where do these people think they are going to get the power for all of these car? "We'll figure that out later.... " seems to be the answer. facepalm.

Like your freedom? Buying an EV is a good way to PAY someone to take it from you.

Taking a trip to the Cape May shore from my house and back I would need to add at least other hour onto an already long day IF there was a charging station and IF there were not a line of cars already waiting to charge up.

Ban internal combustion engines? Funny because Germany is installing hydrogen stations and Toyota and Honda have hydrogen cars and I know Ford has hydrogen internal combustions engines because I knew the guys designing them. HICEV's
Im sure there are others.
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:29 PM #41
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Stalled Out on Tesla's Electric Highway

Anybody remember this stellar review of using an EV in the real world?

Stalled on the E.V. Highway - The New York Times

Stalled Out on Tesla's Electric Highway
By John M. Broder

WASHINGTON — Having established a fast-charging foothold in California for its electric cars, Tesla Motors has brought its formula east, opening two ultrafast charging stations in December that would, in theory, allow a speedy electric-car road trip between here and Boston.

But as I discovered on a recent test drive of the company’s high-performance Model S sedan, theory can be trumped by reality, especially when Northeast temperatures plunge.

Tesla, the electric-car manufacturer run by Elon Musk, the billionaire behind PayPal and SpaceX, offered a high-performance Model S sedan for a trip along the newly electrified stretch of Interstate 95. It seemed an ideal bookend to The Times’s encouraging test drive last September on the West Coast.

The new charging points, at service plazas in Newark, Del., and Milford, Conn., are some 200 miles apart. That is well within the Model S’s 265-mile estimated range, as rated by the Environmental Protection Agency, for the version with an 85 kilowatt-hour battery that I drove — and even more comfortably within Tesla’s claim of 300 miles of range under ideal conditions. Of course, mileage may vary.

The 480-volt Supercharger stations deliver enough power for 150 miles of travel in 30 minutes, and a full charge in about an hour, for the 85 kilowatt-hour Model S. (Adding the fast-charge option to cars with the midlevel 60 kilowatt-hour battery costs $2,000.) That’s quite a bit longer than it takes to pump 15 gallons of gasoline, but at Supercharger stations Tesla pays for the electricity, which seems a reasonable trade for fast, silent and emissions-free driving. Besides, what’s Sbarro for?

The car is a technological wonder, with luminous paint on aluminum bodywork, a spacious and ultrahip cabin, a 17-inch touch screen to control functions from suspension height to the Google-driven navigation system. Feeding the 416 horsepower motor of the top-of-the-line Model S Performance edition is a half-ton lithium-ion battery pack slung beneath the cockpit; that combination is capable of flinging this $101,000 luxury car through the quarter mile as quickly as vaunted sport sedans like the Cadillac CTS-V.

The Model S has won multiple car-of-the-year awards and is, many reviews would have you believe, the coolest car on the planet.

What fun, no? Well, no.

Setting out on a sunny 30-degree day two weeks ago, my trip started well enough. A Tesla agent brought the car to me in suburban Washington with a full charge, and driving at normal highway speeds I reached the Delaware charging dock with the battery still having roughly half its energy remaining. I went off for lunch at the service plaza, checking occasionally on the car’s progress. After 49 minutes, the display read “charge complete,” and the estimated available driving distance was 242 miles.

Fat city; no attendant and no cost.

As I crossed into New Jersey some 15 miles later, I noticed that the estimated range was falling faster than miles were accumulating. At 68 miles since recharging, the range had dropped by 85 miles, and a little mental math told me that reaching Milford would be a stretch.

I began following Tesla’s range-maximization guidelines, which meant dispensing with such battery-draining amenities as warming the cabin and keeping up with traffic. I turned the climate control to low — the temperature was still in the 30s — and planted myself in the far right lane with the cruise control set at 54 miles per hour (the speed limit is 65). Buicks and 18-wheelers flew past, their drivers staring at the nail-polish-red wondercar with California dealer plates.

Nearing New York, I made the first of several calls to Tesla officials about my creeping range anxiety. The woman who had delivered the car told me to turn off the cruise control; company executives later told me that advice was wrong. All the while, my feet were freezing and my knuckles were turning white.

After a short break in Manhattan, the range readout said 79 miles; the Milford charging station was 73 miles away. About 20 miles from Milford, less than 10 miles of range remained. I called Tesla again, and Ted Merendino, a product planner, told me that even when the display reached zero there would still be a few miles of cushion.

At that point, the car informed me it was shutting off the heater, and it ordered me, in vivid red letters, to “Recharge Now.”

I drove into the service plaza, hooked up the Supercharger and warmed my hands on a cup of Dunkin’ Donuts coffee.

If this is Tesla’s vision of long-distance travel in America’s future, I thought, and the solution to what the company calls the “road trip problem,” it needs some work.

The federal government has invested in the effort to find a solution. Three years ago, Steven Chu, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist and secretary of energy, proudly announced a $465 million loan to Tesla as part of an advanced vehicles program intended to cut fossil fuel use and address global warming.

The loan to Tesla would “begin laying the foundation for American leadership in the growing electric vehicles industry,” Dr. Chu said.

At the time, Tesla set a target of producing 20,000 Model S cars by the end of 2013. Some 13,000 eager buyers have reserved 2013 models at prices from about $61,000 to more than $100,000. To give those cars family-vacation capability, the company plans to have 90 Supercharger stations built across the country by the end of 2013.

At the Washington Auto Show last month, Dr. Chu, who has since announced his plan to leave office in the next few weeks, discussed the Energy Department’s goal of making electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids as cheap and convenient as comparable gasoline-powered cars.

He continued: “We can’t say this everywhere in America yet, but driving by a gasoline station and smiling is something everyone should experience.”

I drove a state-of-the-art electric vehicle past a lot of gas stations. I wasn’t smiling.

Instead, I spent nearly an hour at the Milford service plaza as the Tesla sucked electrons from the hitching post. When I continued my drive, the display read 185 miles, well beyond the distance I intended to cover before returning to the station the next morning for a recharge and returning to Manhattan.

I drove, slowly, to Stonington, Conn., for dinner and spent the night in Groton, a total distance of 79 miles. When I parked the car, its computer said I had 90 miles of range, twice the 46 miles back to Milford. It was a different story at 8:30 the next morning. The thermometer read 10 degrees and the display showed 25 miles of remaining range — the electrical equivalent of someone having siphoned off more than two-thirds of the fuel that was in the tank when I parked.

I called Tesla in California, and the official I woke up said I needed to “condition” the battery pack to restore the lost energy. That meant sitting in the car for half an hour with the heat on a low setting. (There is now a mobile application for warming the battery remotely; it was not available at the time of my test drive.)

After completing the battery conditioning process, the estimated range reading was 19 miles; no way would I make it back to Milford.

The Tesla people found an E.V. charging facility that Norwich Public Utilities had recently installed. Norwich, an old mill town on the Thames River, was only 11 miles away, though in the opposite direction from Milford.

After making arrangements to recharge at the Norwich station, I located the proper adapter in the trunk, plugged in and walked to the only warm place nearby, Butch’s Luncheonette and Breakfast Club, an establishment (smoking allowed) where only members can buy a cup of coffee or a plate of eggs. But the owners let me wait there while the Model S drank its juice. Tesla’s experts said that pumping in a little energy would help restore the power lost overnight as a result of the cold weather, and after an hour they cleared me to resume the trip to Milford.

Looking back, I should have bought a membership to Butch’s and spent a few hours there while the car charged. The displayed range never reached the number of miles remaining to Milford, and as I limped along at about 45 miles per hour I saw increasingly dire dashboard warnings to recharge immediately. Mr. Merendino, the product planner, found an E.V. charging station about five miles away.

But the Model S had other ideas. “Car is shutting down,” the computer informed me. I was able to coast down an exit ramp in Branford, Conn., before the car made good on its threat.

Tesla’s New York service manager, Adam Williams, found a towing service in Milford that sent a skilled and very patient driver, Rick Ibsen, to rescue me with a flatbed truck. Not so quick: the car’s electrically actuated parking brake would not release without battery power, and hooking the car’s 12-volt charging post behind the front grille to the tow truck’s portable charger would not release the brake. So he had to drag it onto the flatbed, a painstaking process that took 45 minutes. Fortunately, the cab of the tow truck was toasty.

At 2:40 p.m., we pulled into the Milford rest stop, five hours after I had left Groton on a trip that should have taken less than an hour. Mr. Ibsen carefully maneuvered the flatbed close to the charging kiosk, and 25 minutes later, with the battery sufficiently charged to release the parking brake and drive off the truck, the car was back on the ground. A Model S owner who had taken delivery the previous day watched with interest.

Tesla’s chief technology officer, J B Straubel, acknowledged that the two East Coast charging stations were at the mileage limit of the Model S’s real-world range. Making matters worse, cold weather inflicts about a 10 percent range penalty, he said, and running the heater draws yet more energy. He added that some range-related software problems still needed to be sorted out.

“It’s disappointing to me when things don’t work smoothly,” Mr. Straubel said in a post-mortem of my test drive. “It takes more planning than a typical gasoline car, no way around it.

“Hopefully you’ll give us a little slack in that we put in the East Coast stations just a month ago,” he said. “It’s a good lesson.”

After 80 minutes of charging in Milford, the battery registered an estimated 216 miles of range. The trip to the Tesla dealership in Manhattan was an uneventful 71 miles. When I pulled in, the battery had an estimated 124 miles remaining.

I trust that the next driver savored those miles — and dressed warmly, just in case.

A version of this article appears in print on Feb. 10, 2013, Section AU, Page 1 of the New York edition with the headline: Stalled on the E.V. Highway. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:59 PM #42
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Anybody remember this stellar review of using an EV in the real world?

Stalled on the E.V. Highway - The New York Times

Stalled Out on Tesla's Electric Highway
By John M. Broder

A version of this article appears in print on Feb. 10, 2013, Section AU, Page 1 of the New York edition with the headline: Stalled on the E.V. Highway. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe
This test happened 8 years ago.
No use being a Luddite.
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:10 PM #43
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This test happened 8 years ago.
No use being a Luddite.
Maybe do some research before posting.

It’s the same car with only a few minor refresh’s done. Same crap battery unless you upgrade to a bigger (heavier) one. Same ridiculous charging times.
Same battery technology ... that’s why Tesla will cease to exist at some time in the near future.
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Old 09-26-2020, 05:17 PM #44
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Care to elaborate or cite specifics?
He was a 'never-trumper' prior to the election. He espoused the same rhetoric about Trump that the MSM did, even though it was outright lies. He's all for closed borders and nationalism in Israel, but doesn't "give a damn about the browning of America" because "idealogy is all that matters". If you look at his past double-talk, it's quite obvious.

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Old 09-26-2020, 06:54 PM #45
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thennen is a splendid one to behold thennen is a splendid one to behold thennen is a splendid one to behold thennen is a splendid one to behold thennen is a splendid one to behold thennen is a splendid one to behold thennen is a splendid one to behold thennen is a splendid one to behold
People such as Gavin use the term ‘climate change’ (man-made) as if it’s a fact. They then use it (or rather, the fear of it) as justification for all manner of legislation, executive orders, social engineering, etc. But man-made climate change isn’t provable. So then, what’s the real reason for treating it as matter-of-fact? Belief that it’s true is the key. If enough people believe they’re responsible for global warming, and they fear the threatened consequences, they can be convinced to do just about anything to mitigate it.
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