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Old 12-02-2020, 01:51 PM #31
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Originally Posted by rdruss View Post
Nothing you say makes them "awful". You may not be impressed with most, or all, of Toyota's offerings but that doesn't make them "awful". Maybe you need to try some of the comp for awhile and then see what you think.
Mazda is better, Honda is better, Subaru is better.

Toyota and Nissan are rental grade trash.
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Old 12-02-2020, 06:37 PM #32
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Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
The 4Runner in 2010 was closer to a refresh than a real full new model. And now we're going out to 2024 on a 2003 platform.
I like this.

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And Toyota could have given us newer engines and transmissions in the same platform without a new generation. But it didn't. I couldn't believe that the "new" lexus IS came out with the same engine I had in mine in 2007. I mean - how many "generations" can you squeeze out of drive train before it's done?
The engine and drivetrain in the 4Runner is as close to bulletproof as it gets while also getting the job done. That's why I say I like this.
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Old 12-02-2020, 06:40 PM #33
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Originally Posted by LandCruiser View Post
There's "declining interest" in the 4Runner which has a platform, engine, and transmission first seen together in the 2003 4th gen model and still continues to sell remarkably well despite no updates to the drivetrain--even though Toyota has the engines and transmissions and is wasting them on the GX and could have easily dropped them in during its long run that started in 2010.
What declining interest? The 4Runner's been on a spectacular upward trajectory since the introduction of the 5th gen.

Toyota 4Runner Sales Figures | US Car Sales Figure
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Old 12-02-2020, 06:41 PM #34
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Originally Posted by Gamma Ray View Post
I like this.



The engine and drivetrain in the 4Runner is as close to bulletproof as it gets while also getting the job done. That's why I say I like this.
So are the V8 and 8AT in the Land Cruiser.

So are the V8 and 6AT in the GX.

At this point there is no reason for the weak ass engine or old ass transmission.
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:04 PM #35
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Originally Posted by LandCruiser View Post
So are the V8 and 8AT in the Land Cruiser.

So are the V8 and 6AT in the GX.

At this point there is no reason for the weak ass engine or old ass transmission.
Okay, then there are less things to go wrong in the 4Runner. Nice!
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:20 PM #36
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Originally Posted by Gamma Ray View Post
Okay, then there are less things to go wrong in the 4Runner. Nice!
The 4Runner is not more reliable than the GX. At least not in any way I'm aware of. You don't have to give up power and performance for reliability. It's a spectrum, but the 1GR is not a particularly simple engine. It's durable. But so is the 4.6L v8. And so is the 5.0L v8. Arguably the 4.6L is more reliable - at least two of them have run more than a million miles. Or at least more people are taking them out to longer ranges. And it could very easily have been put in the 4Runner. Transmission would probably last longer because the transmission could shift about half as many times and would spend a lot more time with the torque converter locked.

The 1GR is a fine engine. It's just old. And IMO it's fine as a base model for the 4R. But it's just barely enough for a 5k lb SUV. The Yaris 3cyl now makes 268hp in a 2800lb car. That's more like the power to weight ratio I'd love to have. We don't need 500+hp. But 350hp wouldn't hurt. Once you start loading it up and putting on bigger tires, etc. It's not really powerful enough anymore. The extra reserve power in other modern engines offers a nicer driving experience. And the frustration is that the engines are already done. And they've been sitting around for 10 years. It's time for Toyota to put its current engines in the 4Runner. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Last edited by Jetboy; 12-02-2020 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:47 PM #37
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Originally Posted by Jetboy View Post
The 4Runner is not more reliable than the GX. At least not in any way I'm aware of. You don't have to give up power and performance for reliability. It's a spectrum, but the 1GR is not a particularly simple engine. It's durable. But so is the 4.6L v8. And so is the 5.0L v8. Arguably the 4.6L is more reliable - at least two of them have run more than a million miles. Or at least more people are taking them out to longer ranges. And it could very easily have been put in the 4Runner. Transmission would probably last longer because the transmission could shift about half as many times and would spend a lot more time with the torque converter locked.

The 1GR is a fine engine. It's just old. And IMO it's fine as a base model for the 4R. But it's just barely enough for a 5k lb SUV. The Yaris 3cyl now makes 268hp in a 2800lb car. That's more like the power to weight ratio I'd love to have. We don't need 500+hp. But 350hp wouldn't hurt. Once you start loading it up and putting on bigger tires, etc. It's not really powerful enough anymore. The extra reserve power in other modern engines offers a nicer driving experience. And the frustration is that the engines are already done. And they've been sitting around for 10 years. It's time for Toyota to put its current engines in the 4Runner. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I wouldn't buy the shitty Supra, but I'd definitely get the GR Yaris, that thing looks awesome.

Of course yet ANOTHER bad ass car not available in the US.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:08 PM #38
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The 4Runner is not more reliable than the GX. At least not in any way I'm aware of. You don't have to give up power and performance for reliability. It's a spectrum, but the 1GR is not a particularly simple engine. It's durable. But so is the 4.6L v8. And so is the 5.0L v8. Arguably the 4.6L is more reliable - at least two of them have run more than a million miles. Or at least more people are taking them out to longer ranges. And it could very easily have been put in the 4Runner. Transmission would probably last longer because the transmission could shift about half as many times and would spend a lot more time with the torque converter locked.

The 1GR is a fine engine. It's just old. And IMO it's fine as a base model for the 4R. But it's just barely enough for a 5k lb SUV. The Yaris 3cyl now makes 268hp in a 2800lb car. That's more like the power to weight ratio I'd love to have. We don't need 500+hp. But 350hp wouldn't hurt. Once you start loading it up and putting on bigger tires, etc. It's not really powerful enough anymore. The extra reserve power in other modern engines offers a nicer driving experience. And the frustration is that the engines are already done. And they've been sitting around for 10 years. It's time for Toyota to put its current engines in the 4Runner. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Well, it's old, and some of us like that. Yeah, I know that's not the greatest argument, but I still like it!

And LOL Yaris with a teensy 3 cylinder with that much horsepower. They've got to be turboing the heck out of that thing. How long is it really going to last? I know this is Toyota, but still. There are limits.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:09 PM #39
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I wouldn't buy the shitty Supra, but I'd definitely get the GR Yaris, that thing looks awesome.

Of course yet ANOTHER bad ass car not available in the US.
The GR Four Yaris looks pretty cool. I wonder how many of them are going to survive the 25 year import cutoff with their tremendously turboed teensy three bangers, though.
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:24 AM #40
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What we're seeing starting to happen is likely the last generation of non-hybrid/electric new powertrain development. With most manufacturers planning to produce a majority electric/hybrid vehicles in the next 10 years, its not cost effective to design new V6 or V8 NA powertrains anymore.
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Old 12-05-2020, 11:36 PM #41
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What we're seeing starting to happen is likely the last generation of non-hybrid/electric new powertrain development. With most manufacturers planning to produce a majority electric/hybrid vehicles in the next 10 years, its not cost effective to design new V6 or V8 NA powertrains anymore.
I wonder how Ford does it is a 7.3L V8 in their super duty and how Jeep does it with a 6.4L V8 hemi in their 392 Wrangler. They don't seem to be shying away from introducing new thirsty V8 engines.
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:14 AM #42
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To be quite honest if Toyota had continued to make the tundra the same size as the first generation all the way through I would probably have one instead of my 4Runner. Don't get me wrong I love my 4Runner but it's the first SUV I have had since my 20's besides a REALLY nice FJ40 that was more of a garage queen than anything. And I'm about to buy another house. Given my income and the area I live it'll need work. Either a utility trailer or another pickup truck is in my near future. If they make a Tundra that rides better and gets way better mileage than the current gen I am a potential buyer.
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