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Old 11-29-2020, 10:59 AM #16
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This. California can't even keep the lights on when it gets hot outside and everyone turns on the AC. How do we think the grid will respond when a few hundred million cars plug into it on top of current demand?
I thought about that briefly, but I try not to think about California too much
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:06 PM #17
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ROI on hybrids has never made sense.
Yep, ROI only makes sense when considering something that's optional, but when it's all thats available our thinking will be different.
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Old 11-29-2020, 08:41 PM #18
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Or when you look at the ROI as something more than the impact on your personal bank account.

That said, our Rav4 hybrid has an ROI (for our bank account) of about 3 years and it's far more enjoyable to drive then the NA Rav4.

I may consider a hybrid 4R when it comes out but I doubt it. I'll either go Lexus or go with a different manufacturer when its time to replace the current 4R.
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:06 PM #19
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USA today (worthless rag) reported that SAE has gotten the auto manufactures to agree on wireless charging for electric vehicles. So all electric vehicles could charge from the same wireless "grid". No proprietary chargers. WPA SAE J2954
So this is big. Can you imagine parking at your local grocery store. And you car being recharged while parked, wirelessly. When you check out, part of your bill is the electricity that you used to recharge.
This is big!

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Old 11-30-2020, 09:25 PM #20
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USA today (worthless rag) reported that SAE has gotten the auto manufactures to agree on wireless charging for electric vehicles. So all electric vehicles could charge from the same wireless "grid". No proprietary chargers. WPA SAE J2954
So this is big. Can you imagine parking at your local grocery store. And you car being recharged while parked, wirelessly. When you check out, part of your bill is the electricity that you used to recharge.
This is big!
Indeed, it would be big if in place now or the near future....but how many years will it take to get the infrastructure in place to match your grocery store scenario nation wide, not to mention getting all the vehicles compatible with such a system, at present there's not a wide spread infrastructure for current charging scenarios, mostly spotty and mostly in larger cities, certainly not what I would call anywhere close to nation wide.
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:33 PM #21
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Originally Posted by mscot View Post
Or when you look at the ROI as something more than the impact on your personal bank account.

That said, our Rav4 hybrid has an ROI (for our bank account) of about 3 years and it's far more enjoyable to drive then the NA Rav4.

I may consider a hybrid 4R when it comes out but I doubt it. I'll either go Lexus or go with a different manufacturer when its time to replace the current 4R.

In the early 2000’s i was at Ford. The automotive mfg. community was just trying to all agree on the same plug for EVs and plug in hybrid vehicles so all could charge the same way. It took years just to agree on the plug.

Dont get all geek’d on the above it will take decades.
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Old 11-30-2020, 10:14 PM #22
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I believe that is the major point. All of the wireless charging will be standardized. All the same, no proprietary plugs or voltages or whatever.
I think this is big. It means that everyone will be on the same page for charging, just like current gasoline pumps. Everyone is agreeing to use the same charging, no USB or mini USB or fire wire. Everything will charge where ever you are. Certainly the infrastructure will take some time. but the weight of everyone being on the same page will make more assets available to build the infrastructure. I think the infrastructure will accelerate over a very short time.
AS the govt accelerates taxes on fossil fuels to subsidize electric energy, that will add fire to the building of infrastructure and accelerate it.
Our GX is a 2017. When we bought it, i looked at Tesla. Besides not making anything I wanted, the infrastructure wasn't there to support our mission for the car. Just in that short time frame, the charging stations have been installed to meet our needs.
But I still like my V-8
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Old 12-01-2020, 01:23 PM #23
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So we are all to have plug in hybrids and EVs and rely on green energy even when the model state for hybrids, EVs, and green energy can't keep the lights on and expects you to swelter in the dark from 4-9 pm when it gets hot.

It makes perfect sense to keep pushing ahead with this tech when it has been proven to be a joke in CA.

That's not even mentioning abysmal QC coming from Tesla which would make a drunk stoned FCA union slob seem like a custom builder.
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Old 12-01-2020, 04:40 PM #24
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The upcharge for something like a Rav4 Hybrid is $800. The ROI depends on fuel and resale. But it's $800 - WGAF? the hybrid rav is easily $800 better. The only reason they aren't selling more is that they can't build them fast enough.

A hybrid T4R will be the top model. If it's only $800 or $1k more - there's no question it'll be a great seller. And if it can do half of what the F150 hybrid has built in - it'll be a far better camping platform too.
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Old 12-01-2020, 04:44 PM #25
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So we are all to have plug in hybrids and EVs and rely on green energy even when the model state for hybrids, EVs, and green energy can't keep the lights on and expects you to swelter in the dark from 4-9 pm when it gets hot.

It makes perfect sense to keep pushing ahead with this tech when it has been proven to be a joke in CA.

That's not even mentioning abysmal QC coming from Tesla which would make a drunk stoned FCA union slob seem like a custom builder.
PHEV energy can flow both directions. PHEVs may help solve the intermittent renewable generation problem, not exacerbate it. It probably does make sense to push ahead with a distributed battery bank in the form of PHEVs that also allow the system to take all of the energy output when it is available instead of wasting it during high generation hours.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:11 PM #26
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PHEV energy can flow both directions. PHEVs may help solve the intermittent renewable generation problem, not exacerbate it. It probably does make sense to push ahead with a distributed battery bank in the form of PHEVs that also allow the system to take all of the energy output when it is available instead of wasting it during high generation hours.
I thought about getting the Cayenne Hybrid for this reason since I don't drive far and plugging it in would seriously cut my gas consumption, but it just didn't seem worth it for the cost premium over the base.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:30 PM #27
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I thought about getting the Cayenne Hybrid for this reason since I don't drive far and plugging it in would seriously cut my gas consumption, but it just didn't seem worth it for the cost premium over the base.
I just want to park in the PHEV spots. When is someone going to make an aftermarket faux plug in door that we can install in the fender for pretend charging?
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:45 PM #28
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I just want to park in the PHEV spots. When is someone going to make an aftermarket faux plug in door that we can install in the fender for pretend charging?
In Cali only the EVs get special parking and there's no more HOV exemption for hybrids... if anything all the HOV lanes are being converted to toll express lanes.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:23 PM #29
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$$$ ROI on a hybrid would be less important to me than the extended range that comes from a higher MPG
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Old 12-02-2020, 12:32 PM #30
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It'll be interesting to see what happens in this realm. I would have thought the price on hybrids would have come down by now. I rented a Prius about a decade ago out of curiosity and quite liked it. I love the idea of a hybrid 4Runner and am surprised we don't have one yet. That said, I wouldn't pay a massive premium for one. I was pricing F-150s the other day, and you have to get almost the top trim level before you can get the hybrid -- an extra $20K or so.
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