[momo.75]

I do not know these people and do not care about their situation. I do care about our members that have lost thousands of dollars to Pefreybilt. This thread is solely for those with information on any actions that can be taken to recoup any money lost.

***NOTICE***
THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR PERSONAL ATTACKS OR PERSONAL FEELINGS. ANY POSTS OTHER THAN INFORMATION WILL BE DELETED AND THOSE MEMBERS WILL BE GIVEN INFRACTIONS. NO EXCEPTIONS!!

[indy500driver]

This is the relevant text/info from ETXTacoma's thread on TW, and my own posts, and documents to read/use.

ETX Tacoma:

Since every thread about this topic usually turns into chaos and goes completely off topic and since people may actually need information, this can be that thread until otherwise noted.

This however is not a thread for speculation, rumors, dog pictures, etc. If you don't have information or an investment in this. Don't post. Plain and simple. This is an information/help thread only. Please keep it that way.

Disclaimer: I AM NOT A LAWYER

I am only posting what information I have into a condensed thread so that instead of making people go through 50+ pages to find information, they can possibly find it in one spot.

I am also not going to go back over previous information concerning Facebook, Instagram, or TW posts by Pelfrey either. That is all available and everyone has seen it and there is no need for it here either again.


To Begin...
​
Chapter 7 Bankruptcy was filed under Case 18-05409-MM7 on 09/06/18 using Official Form 101 - Voluntary Petition for Individuals Filing for Bankruptcy in the Southern District of California by their Attorney, Name Redacted. It was officially entered at 18:30:29, the full document is a 74 page PDF. (The Full PDF will NOT be posted here, I have posted a portion of the PDF with redaction's made to it however, it is located on Post #2)

This is a Chapter 7 Bankruptcy filing on behalf of Tyler and Satin Pelfrey... from what I can read, personally, not as a business.
I won't post the full description of what a Chapter 7 is, but you can read it at the following link since it explains everything in detail.
Chapter 7 - Bankruptcy Basics | United States Courts

Common Questions Regarding Chapter 7 Bankruptcy from the Law Offices of Sutton & Sutton in Lakewood, CO

One note: All individual bankruptcy filers are required to complete pre-bankruptcy credit counseling and pre-discharge debtor education. These may not be provided at the same time. Credit counseling must take place before you file for bankruptcy; debtor education must take place after you file.

Credit Counseling and Debtor Education Courses | United States Courts

Pre-bankruptcy credit counseling was completed... by one of the parties prior to filing and on August 27th.
(I do have the certificate of completion on this as well, no, it will not be posted, don't even ask, don't even PM me.)

Also... per @TLA, they are still missing info needed, so there are still things that will be brought to light on all this possibly.

TLA said: ↑
Upon filing their petition the court notified them that they were missing:

Schedules A/B−J
Statement of Financial Affairs
Summary of Assets and Liabilities and Statistical Information
Schedule A/B − Real and/or Personal Property
Chapter 7 Statement of Exemption from Presumption of Abuse (122A−1Supp) (individual debtors only)

They have 134 days to remedy those deficiencies. This is pretty common in bankruptcy filings, they rush to beat a deadline of some sort, knowing that they can add those documents later.
Chapter 7 Bankruptcy and Collections
Filing a petition under chapter 7 "automatically stays" (stops) most collection actions against the debtor or the debtor's property. 11 U.S.C. § 362. But filing the petition does not stay certain types of actions listed under 11 U.S.C. § 362(b), and the stay may be effective only for a short time in some situations. The stay arises by operation of law and requires no judicial action. As long as the stay is in effect, creditors generally may not initiate or continue lawsuits, wage garnishments, or even telephone calls demanding payments. The bankruptcy clerk gives notice of the bankruptcy case to all creditors whose names and addresses are provided by the debtor.

This would essentially mean that by them filing Chapter 7, it would stop collections against them. You can still attempt it, but once again... IANAL. I am not sure how this would work since they possibly filed as individuals and not as a business entity.

What You Can Do Now Potentially, Results Will Vary from Bank to Bank.
IANAL... DO THE BELOW AT YOUR OWN RISK!
If you paid with a Credit Card:
You can attempt to perform a chargeback through you credit card via your online account or by calling your card holder with the number on the back of your card, you will need to know the date of the transaction and more than likely the amount of the transaction. They will require more info and you will need to explain why.

If you paid with ACH Transfer:
This becomes tricky... your best bet will be to physically go to your bank and explain your situation as this could vary bank to bank. It is possibly that you can do a ACH Chargeback but the bank will possibly have to perform an investigation into it first so you will need to provide paperwork.
Not all banks have 24/7 Hotlines for Fraud... bigger ones do, smaller ones may not, your results may vary.
My experience with my local credit union on 9/10/18 and doing an ACH Chargeback, will update as I learn more from my bank - https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads....#post-18672426


Note: I would also advise the following from a personal finance standpoint. If you are successful in getting your money back through either your credit card or financial institution and you performed the chargeback AFTER 9/6/18. DO NOT IMMEDIATELY turn around and spend that money somewhere else. Transfer it to a savings account, make it cash and put it in a safe deposit box, whatever you want to do, but DO NO SPEND IT. It could be a couple weeks before more information is known and you don't want to be 3, 6, 9 weeks from now and all of a sudden that money is being Federally Ordered returned to the account it was removed from or it is just removed without notice from your account one day. Just a thought...

Also... read this post by @indy500driver on page 3 of this Thread.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads....#post-18677815


Things to print off for your records or your for bank:
See Post #2 of this thread for PDFs of Bullet Points 3, 4, 5, and 6,
Any Emails between Yourself and a @pelfreybilt .com person that concern orders or invoices in question.
Actual Invoices that show the amounts, dates, and product descriptions.
Print off this post from what @indy500driver says, I have made it a PDF in Post 2 as well, it is called Getting Money Back Help. Was originally posted by @.45 JHP and I would like to give him credit for that still. Just does not need to be said twice.
I have also printed off the screenshots on the first page of this thread https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...9-6-18.567324/ from the Pelfreybilt Facebook page as well, just in case.
Print off that they have filed Bankruptcy two other times... Located here https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...#post-18659191 - Also can print out the PDF called 2001 Tyler Pelfrey Bankruptcy Filing.pdf
Print off the forum posts for your respected Bumper Pre-Orders, 1st Gen, 2nd Gen, 3rd Gen. I have put PDFs for each on the 2nd Post of this thread. Just in case you have to explain what the product is.

What Now?

FAQ for Creditors in Bankruptcy Cases
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/can-...uptcy-734.html
https://www.ehtc.com/resources/news....for-Bankruptcy
Can you sue them as individuals? No, not at all. Sorry. Since filing, they are now protected against lawsuits as individuals because of filing Chapter 7.
If you are listed in the filing, you should receive a letter stating so and instructions on what to do next in your mail. Their are 74 pages on the filing and 66 are just names and address of us and others, so if you were involved possibly, then you should have something in your mail I would suspect here in the next few weeks. I Received One called "Official Form 309A" from Their Attorney on 9/11/18, you can see mine here https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads....#post-18681908
DO NOT CONTACT THE JUDGE VIA PHONE THAT WAS POSTED IN THE OTHER THREAD...
Potentially file a complaint with the FBI and the Internet Crime Complaint Center for a Business Fraud Crime? https://www.fbi.gov/scams-and-safety...business-fraud - https://complaint.ic3.gov/default.aspx?
You could file a complaint with the FTC if you want to, since they added online transactions to the fold - https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1
Contact the Attorney General of California. However, not sure how much this would even help you since this is a Federal Issue and not State but am still providing the contact info for them just in case. - https://oag.ca.gov/
If you were part of a Pre-Order and were working with a Pelfrey Sales Manager to do a Group Buy for your region... it would not hurt to contact your States Attorney General in regards to this as well since it was multiple people for one type of product from one vendor and an incentive for having a group buy with more people was a bigger discount of some sort from the Vendor for the Product. Hopefully that makes sense in what I am trying to say.
If you have Pelfrey clothing... don't throw it away or burn, please consider donating it to the lesser fortunate in your community. A simple Google search for places in your community and 5 minutes of your time is all it takes. This is also a great time to go through your closet and clean it out of stuff you might not wear anyways and donate it at the same time....

[indy500driver]

Documents and Info

[indy500driver]

MY POSTS

Ok, @ETXTacoma has just touched on something that I can shed a bit of light on further, and I think this will help others understand what their focus should be. I think what most people are confusing is that Pelfrey's in bankruptcy will directly affect all attempts to get money back for unfulfilled product purchases. Bankruptcy will only affect people who handed them cash for purchases, or paper checks in hand, literally. All the merchant accounts, be it ACH or Card, require a merchant application, with a personal credit check, etc.. it literally is just like applying for a loan... Now here is WHY the process of getting a merchant account for Card and/or ACH is much the same as getting a mortgage or loan... it is simply an extension of credit by a bank or a banking affiliate (third party processor, merchant account provider, etc)...

The point I am making is, once the merchant account provider approves an application, a contract is signed, and regardless of the merchant's corporate structure, LLC, Inc., LLP, the account is always personally guaranteed by officers, shareholders of said company applying for the merchant account. Now the reason for merchant account providers making every approved applicant guarantee personally is because that merchant account provider IS LIABLE for every transaction their merchants process, the personal guarantee erases something called 'piercing the corporate veil' in legal lawsuit world... If a merchant account was granted to a company and no personal guarantee was signed, then the merchant account provider cannot sue past the contracted party, being the company LLC or Inc. that is the merchant of record. Banks do not like to lose money.

If you're following me here, then you should understand that the Pelfrey bankruptcy is not to protect them from customers, its to protect them from banks coming after them for transactions processed that are being charged back, and personal creditors like credit cards, mortgages, etc.
... Still following, heres the 'money shot' (excuse pun). If your purchase from them was not cash-in-hand or a paper check, rather any electronic method,... be it either ACH, Credit, or Debit Card, you are completely able to get your money back, you do not need to involve yourself with the bankruptcy at all because you are not getting your money back from them.

The banks that underwrote, and approved their ACH/Credit/Debit Card merchant accounts are liable. There is no question to this, it is a basic surety that is written in the rules for NACHA (National Automated Clearing House Association, aka ACH), Visa, MasterCard, Discover, all require of banks in order to participate or use their 'electronic network' and maintain the integrity of said networks. So, what that means in terms regular people speak, if you want to play then you must be able to back up everything you do. It literally is that simple.

Since bank A, B or C approved, and allowed the Pelfreybilt company/website/company owners to process transactions and take money from customers, bank A, B, or C is liable if the merchant becomes insolvent. And just for clarity, lets say A, B, or C bank that granted the ability all of a sudden goes belly up, then the network takes the hit.

There are always three sides to a transaction, the issuing bank (customers credit/debit/checking account), the network (V, MC, D, ACH), and the acquiring bank (the merchant account provider). The only time there are not three sides to a transaction is AMEX, because Amex is a bank, and a network, and an issuer and a merchant account provider, all in one, they are their own entity, completely, and for those who paid with AMEX, just in case, AMEX ALWAYS takes the cardholder side, almost never will they take the merchant side in a dispute.

SO, focus on dealing with your respective method of payment, if you paid by ACH, contact your bank, if you paid by Debit, contact your banks debit dispute dept, if you paid by a credit card, then contact the issuer which also may be your bank, for example, Chase Sapphire is a credit card.

DO NOT SETTLE FOR A NO, DO NOT TAKE WHAT THE CUSTOMER SUPPORT REP ON THE PHONE SAYS AS GOSPEL, THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS WRONG... if your debit/credit card was a Visa you have 540 days forward of the original transaction date. If you have a MasterCard debit/credit card, you have 120 days from the latest promised date of delivery, or 120 days from the insolvency of the business... if ACH, you have 60 days but you can demand a 'REG E' form be done which basically puts it into review by NACHA, and it should not be denied IMO....

Sorry for the bible length post but just want you all to know that the reason Visa, MasterCard are even in business is because you have no recourse in cash world, that was the original marketing and idea behind cards instead of cash back in the beginning of Visa and MasterCard days in the 50s and 60s..

edited to add info;
One more thing, if YOU initiated the transaction, i.e. sent them money, like a wire, or one of those 'PayPal-like' methods within your bank, or PayPal friends-and-family, then your recourse is the legal route... if THEY initiated the transaction, meaning they used one of their merchant accounts, then you have the recourse of the respective network used as mentioned above (V, MC, D, Amex, ACH)

AND

Let me just clarify and add why this is way more relevant, I am talking about the three sides to a transaction part, Amex being the exception. What I went heavily into in that post was more for you all to understand that the banks that granted Pelfrey merchant accounts, are bound to pay you because of the MasterCard, Visa, Discover, Amex or ACH 'network' rules. This was merely to explain the 'merchant side' aka 'acquiring bank' side as the first party of the 3 party involvement to any card transaction. The ending of that last post, and subject matter of my other posts in the beginning of this thread and the CH 7 thread clarified YOUR rights as being on the 'customer side' or 'card issuing bank' side of the transaction as the second party to a transaction. The third party is the actual entity or 'network' used for the transaction, being Visa, or MasterCard, etc... When you get a debit card or credit card with Visa or MasterCard or Amex or Discover, you have an agreement with them, and the issuing bank. And your bank as the "Issuer of your card" is bound by the 'network card issuing rules' that you are not monetarily responsible for any wrongdoing by a merchant (fraud, someone stealing your card, merchants going bankrupt, etc). There is nothing that can break that, whether or not you are named as a creditor is irrelevant and quite frankly, a clever way to try and trick you. And the 'Acquiring bank' aka 'merchant account provider' to Pelfrey is also bound to the 'networks acquiring rules' and is liable for any wrongdoing that happens under its umbrella, and that word is actually used in the rules.

Stop trying to figure out how to get into the BK filing because it is as if you are trying to fight in the wrong arena for money, and there is plenty of money in another arena that is already contractually obligated to reimburse you, and its waiting to fly into your wallet because of the little plastic card with the Visa or MasterCard or Amex logo on it.

PM with questions if you want to and I will try to answer all as time allows..

AND regarding a bank not granting ACH dispute

OK, this is quite a tricky one, AND what I am going to say is not backed up by anything other then my knowledge of the Payments Business, and legal dealings within its realm, THIS IS NOT ADVICE, but would I do this if I were in the same situations as you all who paid with ACH, knowing what I know, A B S O L U T E L Y

You could try to still do Unauthorized ACH Debit, based on the fact that your Authorization was contingent upon terms of receiving product, etc. Now, NACHA rules call for a 'Written Statement Under the Penalty of Perjury' or aka WSUPP. An affidavit makes a written statement a sworn statement. NACHA is requiring the WSUPP so they can pull the funds from Pelfreys ACH Third Party Provider. This is not an affidavit, there is a difference. You can sign that WSUPP form for Unauthorization and be totally happy with the fact that you Authorized, but then Unauthorized based on terms of Authorization not being met. And that technically isn't going to be perjury I think. If your banks WSUPP doesn't have the ability to 'add your story' which would be the terms of the sale, then request that it be added, if they cannot add it, then go ahead, that would be on them if it ever went anywhere, but here is why I don't think it will go anywhere else.

And what is being said about Pelfreys telling people to get in line, and don't try to collect by any other means, well, I think that this might be a 'nice try' by them to get you listed as a creditor. Think about this though, DID YOU LOAN THEM MONEY, you bought something.. So if I were you, I wouldn't want my name listed as a creditor, I would try like hell to get my name removed! Then I would sign the WSUPP all damn day and twice on Sunday, because you aren't committing a crime if you Authorized based on a contract for delivery and then sub-sequentially unauthorized because the contract wasn't fulfilled... And its also pretty much a certainty that the ACH Merchant Account Provider is going to be paying you back, not the Pelfreys. Now, do you risk that Merchant Account Provider coming after you? is it a possibility? sure it is.. Its also possible for me to all of a sudden decide that I really think the Kardashians have talent worthy of a TV show, sure that is possible, BUT NOT LIKELY because all you would have to do is say I will take a jury decision please if you actually want to move forward with trying to make me pay back money that was good faith for something your customer never delivered.

AND credit/debit card dispute incorrect/erroneous employee responses to your claim

Literally, raise hell on the phone and demand to speak to the head of the dispute department or their manager, or someone that isn't regurgitating or following a script. Simply put, it is as if they are not listening to you and hearing F U T U R E D E L I V E R Y :annoyed: because sure, 120 days is the time limit if payment was made and you received product immediately. Refer to the beginning of this thread and post https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads....#post-18677815 and download the Visa pdf in the document section of post #2. Its Visa, so you have 120 days from the last promised delivery date not to exceed 540 days from the Original Transaction Date B E C A U S E the transaction was a deposit or payment for a future delivery. The ASSHAT on the other end of the phone is totally wrong.

And tell them, you have the Visa rules right in front of you, and only say this to a higher up who knows that once you bust that out, its his job on the line because if he doesn't know that, then he shouldn't be working in the dispute department.

Keep calling, keep going up the chain..

[comtn4x4]

As of just now Wells Fargo denied my ACH claim. They said I should take it up with the vendor (Pelfreybilt)
I indicated I could not contact them due to lack of response and could they please do a regulation E review.
I fear it's not looking good for me

[sactown]

@indy500driver , unfortunately it seems many of your tacomaworld links are now going to non-existent pages

[indy500driver]

Originally Posted by sactown

@indy500driver , unfortunately it seems many of your tacomaworld links are now going to non-existent pages

Well, my posts are more about the payment industry, and rules that banks must follow according to Visa, MasterCard, Amex and Discover.. and how to dispute transactions correctly for those who got fleeced.

The first post from Tacoma World user ETXTacoma is merely just a copy and paste on my part. That info was more about the BK.. and I do not know what links work and do not, but even if any links within my posts do not go anywhere, I have posted all my relevant posts and the rules for Visa and MasterCard as jpg attachments.

If you have a question about payments, or your payment scenario, feel free to ask me here. I will need to know the method of payment you used, and any other info you have to help.

I will say that if you used ACH, there seems to be some inconsistency with people getting their funds back via disputing. Some banks are all to happy to help, some are quite careless, and some are just saying 'their hands are tied' and can't do anything.

If you used a card, it is much more black and white, you will win your dispute. The only problem you may face is an uninformed or incorrectly informed customer service rep for your respective card issuing institution. They are usually horribly misguided, so you need to be diligent insisting you speak to someone higher up that knows the rules of Visa and MasterCard. Winning the dispute is easy as long as you read my posts and if you are denied it is 99% likely the dispute or the representative handling it has not made it clear that the transaction was for 'future delivery' which extends the time allowed to dispute, significantly.

[indy500driver]

Originally Posted by sactown

@indy500driver , unfortunately it seems many of your tacomaworld links are now going to non-existent pages

And just FYI, post #2 in this thread like I said is mostly a Tacoma World user ETX Tacoma that started the informatory thread which I will post the full link below

If you want to get more information and correct links on post#2 then you will need to hit up that thread directly since this forum parses links usually.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/pelfrey-informational-thread-one-post-condensed-version.567463/

[ZiaMan]

I posted a similar thread last week...
Pelfreybilt Files for Bankruptcy
@MTgirl and @Wepps are on the TW staff and are here to help.

[Runn4est]

Originally Posted by comtn4x4

As of just now Wells Fargo denied my ACH claim. They said I should take it up with the vendor (Pelfreybilt)
I indicated I could not contact them due to lack of response and could they please do a regulation E review.
I fear it's not looking good for me

Interesting...Without going into too much detail, I know that Wells just reimbursed a rather large amount of money (MUCH more than a bumper haha) to a client that fell victim to wire fraud, and they were not even the bank to process the wire...I would push your claim again if you can.

[comtn4x4]

Originally Posted by Runn4est

Interesting...Without going into too much detail, I know that Wells just reimbursed a rather large amount of money (MUCH more than a bumper haha) to a client that fell victim to wire fraud, and they were not even the bank to process the wire...I would push your claim again if you can.

I am still trying to get it refunded. I'll keep everyone updated.

[jimmynotjim]

For those of you having trouble getting your bank/card issuer to work with you, it may be worth filing a complaint with the CFPB. There's no guarantee the bank will reimburse you, but they are required by law to respond to every complaint, and the Bureau keeps an eye on the number of related complaints to ensure banks are following the rules. Even mentioning to a manager you plan to submit a complaint can get things moving.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

DISCLAIMER: I was a web developer for the CFPB for three years and am not an attorney or representative of the CFPB. Take this advice how you will.

[4Running303]

Originally Posted by comtn4x4

I am still trying to get it refunded. I'll keep everyone updated.

Bank of America rejected my ACH claim as well. They said they would be taking back my temporary credit in two weeks (2 weeks will be up this coming Tuesday). I called them back and asked for a Reg E form to be filled out. The lady on the phone was nice, and said she would re-open the dispute and they would do a second evaluation. She put it in the case that I am requesting a Reg E form. She said I would hear back from someone at BofA within a few days, but I haven't heard back yet. I do see in the "message center" that my case is open again. I'll wait and see if they take back the temporary credit on Tuesday or not.

[comtn4x4]

Originally Posted by 4Running303

Bank of America rejected my ACH claim as well. They said they would be taking back my temporary credit in two weeks (2 weeks will be up this coming Tuesday). I called them back and asked for a Reg E form to be filled out. The lady on the phone was nice, and said she would re-open the dispute and they would do a second evaluation. She put it in the case that I am requesting a Reg E form. She said I would hear back from someone at BofA within a few days, but I haven't heard back yet. I do see in the "message center" that my case is open again. I'll wait and see if they take back the temporary credit on Tuesday or not.

I also asked for a REG E review although they acted as if I was out of my mind. We'll see I guess.
I also filed a complaint with the CFPB as was indicated earlier by jimmynotjim

[fourwd1]

Originally Posted by momo.75

I do not know these people and do not care about their situation. I do care about our members that have lost thousands of dollars to Pefreybilt. This thread is solely for those with information on any actions that can be taken to recoup any money lost.

***NOTICE***
THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR PERSONAL ATTACKS OR PERSONAL FEELINGS. ANY POSTS OTHER THAN INFORMATION WILL BE DELETED AND THOSE MEMBERS WILL BE GIVEN INFRACTIONS. NO EXCEPTIONS!!

Thanks for handling this @momo.75 , I was tied up.

It's unfortunate to have to resort to something like this, but it seems there are too many infantile minds here.