[trainman605]

Just wondering why Toyota/Lexus seem to get it right and Ford, GM, and Stellantis have gone off the deep end with their bad decisions. When the government tells you want to do and you do it, bend over your fixing to get it in the pocket book, or back there by your pocket book. I don't know how many billions this is going to cost these manufactures, but it will be plenty.

[rdruss]

IMO the three you mentioned have always been in a race with other to get out a new model, new tech, new whatever, whereas, Toyota sticks with a model for a long time and tweeks it over the years until it's really a good vehicle, like the 4Runner. Toyota has a loyal following and brings in others when they tire of the three you mentioned. Plus, the Japanese have a different mindset than the others as well, they take more pride in what they build IMO.

[wcjeep]

Toyota is not perfect. Competition is in a hurry regardless of the costs.

[DAW89446]

GM prefers to let unsuspecting purchasers do their R&D. I found the hard way to not let my heart fall for a pretty new GM design but wait until their last year of any generation or new model. But that was then. I haven't purchased a new GM product since 1996 and don't ever plan to.

[rdruss]

Toyota got it right today, their stock soared 15.83 points and after hours is up another 7.14 points!

[trainman605]

Originally Posted by DAW89446

GM prefers to let unsuspecting purchasers do their R&D. I found the hard way to not let my heart fall for a pretty new GM design but wait until their last year of any generation or new model. But that was then. I haven't purchased a new GM product since 1996 and don't ever plan to.

I retired from GM and haven't purchased a GM vehicle since my retirement. I will say, I still have no problem with GM, but after 35 years of GM vehicles I just wanted to try the Japanese vehicles. The wife and I purchased Honda vehicles, for me a Ridgeline and her an Accord, very happy with them and did a second purchase to upgrade those models over the years. Two years ago the wife traded the Honda for a Lexus RX 350 and now I just purchased a new 2024 4 Runner TRD Off Road. I guess you could say, we are now a Toyota family.

[DAW89446]

Originally Posted by trainman605

I retired from GM and haven't purchased a GM vehicle since my retirement. I will say, I still have no problem with GM, but after 35 years of GM vehicles I just wanted to try the Japanese vehicles.

That '96 DeVille Concours was the worst car I ever bought. It was a horror story that would fill a book (maybe Steven King should have made Christine in his movie this car instead of a '58 Plymouth). I've had three lemons in my life, all GM vehicles (an '80 Pontiac Phoenix was a close runner up for first place). I've had some good GM vehicles as well.

I've never owned a bad Ford. My favorite was an '88 Taurus.

I've only had but one Chrysler product. I ran that cruise ship size '70 Chrysler Imperial in a 1980 demolition derby and came in second place.

I traded that '96 Cadillac above for a new 2003 Toyota Camry. I had purchased my '02 Tacoma TRD six months previous, my first two Toyotas.

I've owned but one Honda, an '06 CR-V. Other than two VW Beetles ('63, '67) I've owned all American.

[ifallalot]

Toyota is a true global brand while the American manufacturers are beholden to the whims of the American government

Toyota also has the track record to declare they are going against the grain (EV for example) and not be hurt by perception of the decision

[Zapp Brannigan]

I used to think it was normal to have to go in to the dealer to get stuff fixed until I bought my first Toyota. I couldn't tell you what their service department looks like after a decade of having them.

[BearBio]

I watched a video on YouTube about overlanding from the Arctic Ocean to the tip of South America. It was a group from Wyoming or Montana and they used a 4Runner, Taco and I think an LC.

Anyway, they were doing the Baja on the second episode (I think) and were meeting up with Ivan Stewart and a guy from TRD (Can't remember his name). The guy from TRD answered this question. He said Toyota builds their 4WD for the 10% who use them off-road, not the 90% who don't. I inferred from his comment that the others car makers didn't!

[Oldmanb777]

They don't always get it right. That said, they tend to be old school. That is, they let somebody else work the bugs out of new stuff before they incorporate it. They also are not run by short term managers listening to bean counters on how to deliver short term profits. Cheaper is not always better in the long run.
They also have a fairly blind following. It always amazes me how many people will buy a used 4 runner for more than a new one, and can't see they are paying the Toyota Tax. Having a loyal following, no matter what, gives you a lot of flexibility. Toyota does it extremely well, but we have a GX.

[BearBio]

Originally Posted by Oldmanb777

They don't always get it right. That said, they tend to be old school. That is, they let somebody else work the bugs out of new stuff before they incorporate it. They also are not run by short term managers listening to bean counters on how to deliver short term profits. Cheaper is not always better in the long run.
They also have a fairly blind following. It always amazes me how many people will buy a used 4 runner for more than a new one, and can't see they are paying the Toyota Tax. Having a loyal following, no matter what, gives you a lot of flexibility. Toyota does it extremely well, but we have a GX.

Buying a good used car eliminates depreciation (which, granted isn't much on a 4Runner) and any defects have been addressed. We got our 2019 SR5 Premium for $42K and 17K miles. Now have 38K miles and the only problem was a fried rear diff (due to a mechanic failing to tighten drain plug=they covered the repairs). Paid cash so we'd have no payments during retirement.

Please explain the "Toyota Tax" you refer to???

[Oldmanb777]

Originally Posted by BearBio

Buying a good used car eliminates depreciation (which, granted isn't much on a 4Runner) and any defects have been addressed. We got our 2019 SR5 Premium for $42K and 17K miles. Now have 38K miles and the only problem was a fried rear diff (due to a mechanic failing to tighten drain plug=they covered the repairs). Paid cash so we'd have no payments during retirement.

Please explain the "Toyota Tax" you refer to???

Easy. You paid cash, most people don't and the interest rate is usually higher on a used car. Then amortize the price you pay over the life of the car. you'll usually keep the new purchase longer than the used. In the end, in the case of Toyota, buying new often makes more long term sense.
You are totally correct when buying most vehicles. Let somebody else take the hit on new depreciation. Often not so with Toyota. When we bought our GX in '17 I saw many 4 Runners that would have ultimately cost me more than a new one. We saw several on dealer lots that were a year old with 10K on the clock with stickers with in a few hundred bucks of the identical new one. Saw a few private party sales where people were upside down on them and wanted more than a cash new purchase. I guess that's different though. If buying a 20 yr old car, I can see some people may pay more for a Toyota than some other brand. But how much more? And would you buy a 20 yr old Nissan with 50k on the clock instead of a 30 yr yr old Toyota with 200K on the clock for the same price? That may be an exaggeration, but seems to happen all the time.
Usually i would totally agree with you.

[thennen]

I'm not able to look up details at the moment, but I believe early in Toyota's history they were in dire straits, and didn't have the best reputation for quality. They had to do something or go out of business. I think that's where the 'Five Whys' technique gained footing. Anyway, it was agreed that they had to improve quality if they were going to survive. Maybe someone on here knows the story better than I. My point here is that the quality lesson was learned thoroughly many decades ago.

[rdruss]

Originally Posted by thennen

I'm not able to look up details at the moment, but I believe early in Toyota's history they were in dire straits, and didn't have the best reputation for quality. They had to do something or go out of business. I think that's where the 'Five Whys' technique gained footing. Anyway, it was agreed that they had to improve quality if they were going to survive. Maybe someone on here knows the story better than I. My point here is that the quality lesson was learned thoroughly many decades ago.

I think you may be somewhat correct here. I think there was a quality control "guru", American, I think, who went in and showed Toyota what it takes to build quality products, back in the 50's or 60's I think, and they incorporated his advice, and the rest is history.