A few points for you to consider:

1. An offset frontal collision tests body structure strength MORE than a full frontal collision. You got it backwards! So, yes, the data result from the video shows you that body strength is superior in the modern vehicle.

2. If you want to compare full frontal crashworthiness, then just look at NHTSA data...they test full frontal collision to test restraint system. In other words, IIHS test protocol tests structural strength, while NHTSA tests restraint system. Either way, the newer 4runners are far superior.

3. You mentioned weight and physics...excellent. Of course, the 4th and 5th gen 4runners weigh MORE than the 3rd gen...so, there goes that argument by you! Frames in the 4th and 5th gen are significantly bigger AND thicker!!

4. You want to see a truck with metal bumpers in a crash test? Look up prior generation Ford F150 or Chevy Silverado...and compare that with the Tundra. BIG DIFFERENCE!!

5. Remember, the frame is still steel. The hood and fenders are still steel. If you base your whole argument on steel bumpers, then you are really not basing it on any facts.

6. Lastly, lighter does not always mean less steel. Remember, modern cars use high-tensile steel which is much lighter than conventional steel yet much stronger. In fact, in the Toyota press, the 5th gen's frame is reinforced by high-tensile steel. So, the 4th and 5th gen frame may be similar in weight, but the 5th gen frame is likely stronger.

About the ONLY thing that i feel is better in the 3rd gen (besides it being narrow for off-roading) is the interior plastics. The 3rd gen has nice quality interior plastics.

Oh yeah, i owned a 3rd gen...and i have never owned a 4th nor a 5th gen...but i am not blind by obvious facts either.

Huh? Are we seeing the same video??!! Dude, the Malibu just went right through the old Chevy Bel Air like it was butter! That has nothing to do with airbags. The Malibu's fender went to the backseat of that Bel Air!!

BTW, the Malibu is not even IIHS top rated midsize sedan!

haha, good one.

Yeah... you dont seem to understand that Safety alone does not make a "superior" vehicle

I already conceded that todays cars are far safer after doing a little studying following your statements. But I still wont concede that safety is all there is to make a "better" car.

And I have no idea what you are talking about "airbags", Crumple zones that send the impact around the cars cabin are the technological breakthrus that have lead to "safer" cars. However, even the IIHS rep in the video I posted states that heavier vehicles in the same class tend to do better in crash tests.

I am unable to find any video of 3rd gen 4runners running into any 5th gen ones... so we just have to assume that the Chevy Malibu vs. Bel Air vehicles that are 50 years apart would be the closest representation of vehicles 8-14 years apart??

INSPITE of the fact that you are taking a video of Chevys 50 years apart and applying that to 4Runners that are at most 14 years apart, I will concede on the safety issue.

You have still yet to prove to me that "more technology" makes a better more reliable, higher quality car...

or do I need to bring up plastic accelerator pedals of which NO Toyota had a problem with in the 90's and early 2000's...

i think they're both cool trucks

so everyone shut up

lol

But the 3rd gen has a totally open front differential. The 5th gen Trail has super A-TRAC controlling the front axle along with the rear locker...it is like having a rear locker plus a very effective front limited-slip differential. So, unlike the 3rd gen, a 5th gen (and to a lesser extent the 4th gen) can still move forward even if only one front tire has traction.

KDSS improves articulation by relaxing the anti-roll bars front and rear when off-roading, thus dramatically improving articulation. On-road, the anti-roll bars are thicker than normal to provide excellent cornering. So, it is the best of both worlds all in one.

IIHS states that the heavier car wins. Ok, fine. The 5th gen is 700-800 lbs HEAVIER than the 3rd gen. There. The 4th gen is 500 lbs heavier than 3rd gen. Not only is the 5th gen heavier, it is also better designed with a stronger frame. I don't understand why you keep on bringing up the heavier vehicle argument??

Superior? Ok, lets see...the 5th gen is a whole lot better on-road...not even in the same ballpark! It is better off-road. It is stronger, both structurally and crashworthiness. It is roomier. It has better off-road equipment, including disc brakes, better CRAWL ratio (one of the most important factor in off-roading!), super traction control, etc.. And to date, the 4th gen is just as reliable and durable as the 3rd gen, which means that the 5th gen will likely be just as reliable and durable. So, is the 5th gen superior? I think so. Why would think any other way???

Does smallish drum brakes make a superior car for you? Does an "AVERAGE" crash score make a superior car for you? You tell me. Yeah, like i said above, the only thing that is really superior in the 3rd gen is the interior plastics. Anything else i am missing?? Tell me your side of the argument.

Is the 4th or the 5th gen 4runner on the gas pedal recall list?? Did i miss something?? Was there any 5th gen 4runner needing a head gasket recall like the 1996 4runner needed??? Or how about the butt sagging recall due to substandard coils or bumpstop??

I am just amazed at this argument...wow.

1999 3rd gen 4Runner SR5 V6 Auto : Stock specs from JA's site

Approach Angle: 36 Degrees
Departure Angle: 29 Degrees
Ground Clearance: 11.0 inches
Curb Weight: 3,930 Lbs.
Overall Width: 68.1 inches
Overall Length: 183.3 inches

2010 5th gen 4Runner SR5 V6 Auto: Stock specs from Toyota

Ground clearance (in.): 9.6
Approach/departure angle (degrees): 25/24 (33/26 Trail)
Curb weight (lb.): 4675 (4750 Trail)
Overall width: 75.8
Overall length: 189.9

Thai, as you can see, there is a LOT more than just the width that is different between the 3rd and 5th gen. i suggest you are the one that does your research before spouting off.

other comparisons:

Reliability: 3rd gen is proven. 5th gen is too new to tell.

Safety: newer generation of vehicles almost always improve in safety so i'm willing to bet the 5th is safer however the 3rd was the safest SUV of its time

Styling: i personally hate the direction that Toyota is going with all their vehicles and the 5th gen is no exception. thats just my opinion so feel free to disagree. 3rd gen was one of the best IMHO. just ahead of the 1st.

Pricing: pretty much the same for what i can tell:

Power: i don't think i even have to talk about the one (5th gen wins btw)

On road: same with safety.

In short, the 5th gen improves in some areas but in worse in others. i don't think many people will disagree with me when i say that the 4runner is slowly becoming less off road oriented and more soccer mom/minivan-like. just look at pictures of the generations. most people with agree that the 1st is the best offroader. i personally feel that the 3rd gen was the best compromise between the two. and finally the most important thing about the 3rd gen, it came in a manual.


yes i know i haven't hit all the differences but i just worked a 12 hour day so

especially on the manual tranny part, cause any old assh0le can hit the gas and go up a hill.

And yet, you are the one that is wrong about ground clearance. Go...look under your 3rd gen 4runner. Measure from the ground up to the lowest part of your underbody. Tell me...is it 11"?? Hell no! Your lowest part is the rear axle pumpkin which is around 9.6-9.8" off the ground. Toyota fakes data BTW. 11" is one of the biggest marketing BS! Check it out yourself...in fact, all of you 3rd gen owners, go check it. You will be laughing all night long! You guys actually think that the ground clearance is 11"??!! I guess marketing does work afterall!!

As for the approach and departure angles, i have my doubts too. When i had my 3rd gen, i rubbed my underbody, front, rear fenders way more than my brother's 2001 lX470 over the same obstacles, which supposedly had inferior "numbers."

And yeah, the weight difference is huge!

Anything else?

did i not say those were both Toyota specs?

i don't disagree that the rear diff is lower than 11 inches but tell me how you know that toyota didn't fake those specs on the 5th gen too and it is actually 7 inches to the rear diff.


glad to see you ignored everything good i mentioned about the 5th

Well if they falsly marketed the clearance of the 3rd gen why the hell would i beileve there statements about the 5th.

Well if you scraped the rocks/obstacles, then exactly that happend YOU did it, the car can clear it.

And yeah the weight difference is huge, but then again 6" shorter and 7" skinny takes up a lot of room ehh?

BTW if this so called Traction control was so ****ing superior offroading then tell me, How many of the trucks that participate in King of the Hammers have Traction Control?

or talk trash on the internet, apparently.

My stock Trail Edition kicks the snot out of any stock 3rd Gen 4Runner and I fully expect I will still feel that way when it has as many miles as the 1985 Toyota pick-up parked next to it.

You don't like my ride? Don't buy one.

Since you completely miss my point on everything... as is standard in all your little posts... Ill just say this...

Go buy a 5th gen 4runner, and We will see how well it holds together in 14 years... Your 5th gen has had what 6? 7 months on the road? Im so glad you are so knowledgeable about cars that you can say that the 2010 4runner is better already than the 3rd Gen, one of the most reliable cars on the road EVEN TODAY... how many 2004 Fords have I seen dead on the side of the road or even Caddies/chevys/dodges/etc. and I have seen exactly 1 4runner dead on the side of a road...

Do you even own a 5th gen? why dont you go get one and we can put our 4runners to the test, no, we will put your 5th gen to the test of Thegreenmonsters stock 97 who just this weekend showed up a 4th gen lifted runner!!

also, just by looking at johns picture. you can see the differences in the angles. johns seems to sit lower but you can clearly see that his rocker is way higher and the departure angle is better. yes the 5th is a limited but remember that johns has 13 year old springs, is not a highlander, and has stock tires.