Terry, I would say you should ask that question on the oil site. Also look at the used oil analysis between the dino and the synthetic oils.

I have posted on the oil site, but so far, no one has directly tried to answer the question. I'm sure there must be some difinative test results on the contaminent levels between synth & dino!

If synth has lower contaminents after longer periods, this seems to me to be the only remaining issue as to perhaps why most application wouldn't be better off with synth.

Tery saw your post over there. If you aren't comfortable with synthetic, just use what the manufacture recommends in the best price you can find and change it at the recommended interval. I change the oil at the dealer for my 350Z every 3K miles, they use dino and OEM filter ( I know doing a 3K OCI that I could use any SL API oil and be fine ). With my 4runner I have the dealer change it and at the 5K mile change will have the dealer use Castrol Syntec at a 5K mile interval. ( I know this will also be conservative and meet the Manufactures warranty requirements) Now after both vehicles are no longer under warranty I will use synthetics like Mobil 1 in both of them and do my own changes. I use the dealer while the vehicle is under warranty for a couple of reasons, easy, and if I need warranty service they know me and how my vehicle has been serviced. Cuts down on the hassle.

Thanks for the reply Pitbull - I am actually quite comfortable with synthetics, it's just I am an analytical sort who would like to know about the contaminant issue.

After lots of discussion on RV.net, I began to use synth blend in my vehciles. I didn't want to go full synth because I didn't know how much contaminants might build up between the longer changes. So, not knowing for sure, I opted for a compromise & went to 5k changes with a blend.

In my mind, this cuts the cost and the time, and still provides the extra protection.

From what I'm reading of a test I saw on Mobil 1 (Camaro went 18,000 miles before tests said it needed changing), dino oil would never get anywhere close. First, the oil would break down, but secondly, I'm assuming there would be much more contaminants building up than with synthetics!

It's just that I've yet to see the direct comparrisons between contaminant levels in synth vs. dino vs. synth blends. But there most be evidence out there.

Anyone know anything about Mobil 1 Supersyn European Car formula?

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

Some of you guys crack me up. You will spend big bucks on the outside of your runners (Grinot's and Zanios) but still use plain oil. I have been in the environmental business for many years, and have connections to the Chevron Refinery in Mississippi. Most every oil is produced buy one of a few companies, TexacoChevron, and ExxonMobil are the big two, all the oil is the same except for the addition of additives, and you can only get one basic oil, that just the way the refining process works. Kind of like gas, it’s all the same except for the additives, However I am not talking about the octane rating.

I have been using AMSOIL for years in everything I have , from the lawnmower and weedeater and ATV, to the Miata and Jeep, I can tell you that there is a difference in the contamination build up in the synthetics, i.e. there is almost none, I change the oil in the cars every 7500 miles, It is wonderful. yes it is more expensive, you can sign up for a preferred customer for $20.00 a year and get it at the dealer price, and oil change that way only add bout $10.00 to the cost. plus you can get all of you grease and filters and even ATF, order on Monday and it is here buy Thursday, That why I don’t have to go out looking of the oil that I need. I usually order a years worth at a time, All I can say that it is good stuff. the only thing I dont run AMSOIL is in the diffrentals for that I use good ole LUCAS

When you 05 runner get here you better beleive that the only oil that I run will be AMSOIL.

MP

Amsoil synthetic = no API donut, which you must have or you are in violation of your warranty. Don't yell at me I'm not the manufacture and I don't make the rules.

I think Amsoil is a "great" oil but I would not use it until the 5 year 60K mile warranty is up. I know I've heard the storys that you can get a lawyer and you will win in court and the manufacture will have to fix your engine. I don't want to have to go to court.

Use a quality dino oil and OEM filter and change it every 3-5K miles and you will never have a engine lubrication problem with your Toyota engine for as long as you own it. The new 5w30 API SL rated oils are that good.

If synthetics make you feel like a good person then buy one of the name brands that have the API donut and still change the oil based on the owners manual and you will have the same results as you will have with the dino oil.

Only exceptions to the above, if you live in Alaska or Death valley I would say use the synthetic.

I know I'm one of the nuts that will use the synthetics even though I know it is costing me more and I don't need the additional protection. I admit it. That does not mean it is the best bang for the buck.

Pit, you made a good point, guess my lawyer will have to get involved, I am a firm beleiver in AMSOIL and will run it till I die, I have seen the diffrence that it has made in the life of motors i have run it in, for example, my boat has a 1986 Merc outboard on it, it gets run almost weekly year round, we decided to pull the topend off this spring to liik for any problems, the pistons and cylinder walls looked perfect, no sign of wear. shocked the crap out of me, and trust me that little 60hp gets run hard to find the mighty redfish. It has been running AMSOIL 2 stroke since the first tank. another example, my father has had the same snapper lawnmower for 22 years, and it is still running on the same innerds, has had three decks and a few carbs but still the same innerds and it has been running AMSOIL since day one

Also studies have been done that show that AMSOIL Surpasses the API standards, that alone will hold up in a court of law considering the exact same ASTM methods were carried out


MP

Hey guys, it's a little more basic than is generally thought. It goes something like this. You have to use an oil of the correct weight, that is API certified, but the API specs are just that, specs. The API probably did not test your bottle of oil. Also the oil change intervals are guide lines. If you have a warranty claim, it's on the factory to prove that your oil fell below spec or that you did something, wrong, a mistake or omission, some time leading up to the problem or at the time of the problem. So you don't have to use a specific oil or change it at a specific mileage. Your problem, if you varied from the published guide lines, is to prove you met the requirement. So there can be vague areas in the middle of a claim. I think it's Pitbull that has taken the sure path. Do the oil changes at the dealer on a consertive schedule. Anything less or more than that could be a risk. If you keep good records with receipts, use a proven oil and filter and do not show signs of abuse you have done your part. you must create a documented consistant pattern. Having said that you might still need legal help but not likely. And a final thought, guys like us are not usually the problem. You know the types. It's those that don't care about their vehicles, for whatever reason and abuse them that have the problems with the warranty. That guy is not on this forum reading posts about maintenance.

Oh, I think Amsoil does make an 'other grade' synthetic that has the API badge. You have to look for it because Amsoil dealers talk up the 'best stuff', that 0w-30.

MP, I think you are correct. Amsoil synthetic is one of the best oils made. Checkout what the Guru's on www.bobistheoilguy.com say. I've used it myself and it works great. I just thought that people "that care" should know that since Amsoil does not feel like spending the money to have their oil API certified everytime they upgrade the formula, that the synthetic does not carry the API donut and without the donut Toyota can use that agains't you if you have a lubrication warranty claim. Of course I doubt you would ever have one for a lubrication problem if you used Amsoil. I just hate to give Toyota/Dealer a shot at denying anything.

Larry, your right about me being conservative about oil and OCI and not trusting the dealer. I've just heard too many horror stories. I think part of the problem is that the more you know the more you have to worry about. I even once had a Lexus dealer forget to put oil into my wifes Lexus. Now you should see me check my vehicles out when the dealer gets done and before I drive away.

Its just funny to me, I am not going to take a brand a brand new runner into the dealers shop to have the oil changed just for the record, I sure as hell am not going to take it to a jiffy lube with their 55 gallon drums of and a pre pub tech making 5.70 and hour to change it. Seems like as long as you keep good records ie oil change milage/date/type and have all the info yota would not stand a chance, and besides, I have acess to a lift and all the tools i need almost any time so I change my own oil as well as all the lubrication.

As for as the API it just shows that the makers spent big $$$ to have their oil listed, kinda like the ISO9002 certification in the manfacturing process, is an API oil better than a non API oil? In most cases no, the makers just spent the bucks for the little 'nut

MP

The API thing seems like a way to keep the little guys like Amsoil out of the game. They can't afford it every time they upgrade their formula. JMHO

The API process is no big deal. The problem is more basic. The API is a one size fits most everyone. It's a bunch of paper pushers and their specs are too general and don't make really good oil. The ACEA is driven by manufacturers and there are a zillion different specs. If you don't find one you like than you can make your own. It results in a very good match between the car and the oil. The car guys ask for what they want and the oil guys supply it. They know they will have a market and can cater to smaller groups of cars or categories. So if you are learning about stuff like oil, look for ACEA specs for cars that are like your car....simple, maybe.

Does anybody know the difference between the Regular Mobil 1 synthetic 5-30 and the Mobil 1 Drive clean NV(new vehicle) 5-30?? Both are synthetic. Is one 100% and the other not?? Just want to know if one is better than the other.