My cousin has a Ford Excursion V10. He puts the used oil in his Jetta diesel's gas tank. How's that for recycling?

Devils advocate here - Dino oil every 3750 miles or synthetic oil every 7500 miles? If its a Toyota 4.7 V8 that is very easy on oil based on UOA you will have less silcon (wear items) in your oil and less wear on your engine if you use the dino and change it more often. Now if you have a high performance engine and you drive it hard in adverse conditions then I would think the synthetic oil which has broader levels of protection would provide extended protection, meaning last longer? I know a guy that has 6 exotic sports cars and uses dino oil that meets the spec's called for by the manufacture. This guys family owns one of the countries largest auto parts companies and he can afford any oil he wants. He states that he has learned through the years that as long as you use the spec's and change interval that is recommended by the manufacture you are OK. When it comes to the lower temp's that a synthetic might provide? Engines/transmissions are designed to run at certain temp range for them to operate at their ideal, it can actually cause performance problems and shorten the life of the engine to operate at cooler temps. Bottom line use oil that is spec'ed for your engine/transmission, if that's synthetic great if it is dino great, I don't think any of us will be able to prove that the synthetic makes your vehicle last longer, if they could the oil companies would have big ads and the automakers would be spec'ing their oil with longer OCI's.

My local dealer told me the factory T-IV tranny fluid is synthetic. Is that right?

This article is being discussed in the bobistheoilguy
forum. Written by a Texaco oil engineer.

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article105.html

So....the net of this long article are:

1. Change oil (and oil filter) frequently, especially if your
car runs at low speeds or idles much.
2. It does not really matter what kind of conventional oils
you use; they are more or less the same.
3. Use synthetic oils is better (except for the first 12,000 miles
or so).

The oil itself never degrades over time; it's the degradation of
the additives, unburned gas leaking into the oil, and particulate
matters that kill the oil. So doing (1) or (3) would protect
your engine.

The Amsoil XL series oils are API licensed.

Koz

I used to be a freak about my integra gs-r that I had. You know it...full synthetic oil...premuim gas...synthetic fuel treatment...$10 oil filter, the car was my baby. Synthetic oil is what it is...another marketing scheme...sure it protects better and runs cooler but the guys in white coats that design toyotas say dont run it cooler it runs best at this temp. Now I guess synthetic would have paid off for me and my integra if I could have drove it to...I dont know...maybe 400,000 miles. (when is the last time your car had that many miles?) But I sold it at 40,000 so I realized I just dumped a lot of extra money on syntec for nothing. No HP gain, just peace of mind from marketers telling me its better. Synthetic will only pay off if you keep your car until the high milage range 200,000 and up and only if the life of it has had synthetic. Now oil is the lifeline of your engine and toyota says change it every 7500 and I say sure if you know what NORMAL driving conditions are. My Acura said the same thing and normal driving is start car...drive staight to highway...drive at least ten miles on highway...get off highway and stop. Now severe driving is go to the grocery store, maybe to work, or to the gas station...you know in town driving and severe driving calls for 3500 mile oil changes. So since Valvoline 5w-30 only cost me $13 for 7 quarts and the toyota oil filter cost about $3 (buy three get one free) I change mine myself every 3000 miles. I bet my 4runner will last and drive as well as anyone elses with synthetic oil. If you want to use synthetic to be cheaper and change it every 10000 or 20000 miles you shouldnt be driving a $35000 vehicle. Quit driving yourself crazy and buy conventional oil and change it every 3000 miles before it starts breaking down.

I like Thai's summary.

Look for the SM rating and the oil will do you fine. Just change it often. I'm one of those stupid people who change it every 3,000 miles.

Anyone here use Walmart's Super-Tech oils?

This has been a great discussion on oil. Personally, from experience and research, I conclude that a good synthetic oil completely out performs a "good" dino oil in every way....except initial cost, and during engine break-in. Here are some facts that should be added to this conversation.

Never use synthetics in a brand new engine!!

Dino oil is best for the break-in period because it doesn't protect the rings so well that they will never seat. I would recommend using synthetic oil only after 8,000 miles on a new or rebuilt engine. (Re-built = new rings + cylinders honed). If you have only added new rings without honing the cylinder bores then it doesn't matter.....the rings won't seat properly anyway.

If you have a new or re-built enigne, please change the oil (with dino oil) after 50 miles. It is amazing how much metal and bearing particles come off the engine in the first hour of operation. You don't want this floating around the engine for 5,000 miles! For best results I would change it again at 500 miles, and then follow regular intervals after that.

If your vehicle comes from the factory with synthetic oil, please have them drain it and run dino oil until break-in is accomplished. (This is a recommendation from almost all reputable engine builders).

If you are past 8,000 miles then just add synthetic oil, change it every 7,500 miles and reap the rewards of superior lubrication.

Guys just go ahead and use dino oil, a good grade and away you go. I know lots of guys with major milage on engine using dino oil and with regular oil changes go 400,000 to 500,000 KM. Plus the engines today seem to run alot cleaner and yes I know they also run hotter.

I guess I am also one of the other stupid people out there who changes oil every 3500 KM.

I myself am an Amsoil dealer and it seems that there are still misconceptions about synthetics . If you want the facts I'd be glad to tell you all the bennefits and advantages of synthetics.
As for not beeing API rated, this is true! Some Amsoil products are not API rated! This is from the Amsoil website! I hopethis clears up some misconceptions.

AMSOIL API Licensing

Q. Why aren't all AMSOIL motor oils API licensed?

A. Good question. Let us address API licensing in depth, as well as the issue of warranties. Some AMSOIL motor oils are API licensed, some are not. If you're concerned about your warranty and feel pressures to use an API licensed oil, even after reading this answer, then the XL 5W-20 (XLM), 5W-30 (XLF), 10W-30 (XLT) and 10W-40 (XLO) or our 15W-40 (PCO) API licensed oils should be your choice. If you are looking for an alternative to frequent oil changes or just want the best performing oil for your car, then one of our top tier non-API licensed synthetic oils are for you. Read on, and decide for yourself.

API Licensing - Passenger Cars - What is it?

An API (American Petroleum Institute) license indicates that a specific motor oil formulation has passed the minimum performance standards as defined by a series of laboratory bench, physical, chemical and engine tests. These tests were selected and minimum performance standards were set by the API Lubricants Committee to address specific areas such as engine wear, deposits, fuel economy, emissions, etc. The committee is comprised of representatives from automobile, oil and additive companies. The current specification is SM/GF-4 for gasoline engines and CI-4 Plus for severe-duty diesel engine service and CF for indirect injected diesel engine service.

Costs

The cost for running a test program for a single fuel efficient passenger car motor oil formulation is from $230,000 to $350,000, depending on if the formula passes the tests the first time through or requires multiple test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average (testing costs for heavy-duty diesel are running from $750,000 to $1,000,000). Once that testing is complete and the formula has passed all of the minimum requirements, it can be licensed for $1050 per year for non-members and $850 per year for members. There is also a royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over one million. The length of time between new specifications is now approximately 2 to 3 years, which does not allow a great deal of time to recover testing costs.

Who Licenses What Formulas?

Additive companies, such as Lubrizol, Afton, Infineum and Oronite, develop licensed formulas that they offer to oil companies to re-license. It is inexpensive to re-license one of these formulas, and the majority of oil companies choose to do this to avoid the costs associated with testing. This lowers the value of engines oils as the same chemistry is being sold under many brand names. Some of the major oil companies do have their own proprietary formulas developed, tested and licensed. All lubricant formulas from AMSOIL INC. are unique and proprietary.

Flexibility In Manufacturing An API Licensed Formula

API licensing was originally developed for mineral based oils, and it affords these oils more flexibility than synthetic oils.

Mineral oils comprised of Group I and Group II petroleum basestocks may use a simple program called base stock interchange for added flexibility in manufacturing and purchasing. Interchange means that by completing the proper paperwork and running a few minor tests an oil company can choose to buy these petroleum basestocks from many different suppliers. This ensures adequate supply and competitive pricing. However, Group III and Group V base stocks are supplier specific and base stock interchange is not allowed. For example, if a formula was tested with an ester (Group V) base stock from a specific supplier, then only that supplier

There's more....
Mail to:

AMSOIL INC.
Attention: Technical Services Department
AMSOIL Building
Superior, WI 54880

or e-mail to [email protected].

They will almost never put it in writing, but if they do, please send us a copy of that, too. Either way, we will send them a letter informing them to cease the intimidation of our customers. Click HERE to read a sample letter.

Only if the oil is determined to be the direct cause of the engine problem can a manufacturer or dealership deny warranty coverage for that specific problem. In this situation the AMSOIL warranty would apply, and the AMSOIL Technical Services Department would assist you in processing your claim and in getting the vehicle repaired. That's our pledge to you. AMSOIL INC. sells millions of gallons of oil per year and warranty claims are a rare occurrence. If you ever have a warranty problem with an automobile manufacturer or dealership, AMSOIL will assist you by analyzing the problem and providing data supporting the fact that repairs should be made under the vehicle manufacturer's warranty. If this does not resolve the problem, AMSOIL will submit a claim with our insurance company and request that an adjuster have the vehicle repaired and pursue legal settlement later if necessary. Click HERE to see the AMSOIL Limited Warranty.

How Does AMSOIL INC. Ensure Their Products Meet Or Exceed The Minimum Specifications Of The Tests Required For API Licensing?

First, AMSOIL INC. works closely with major additive companies to select the top performing, and usually most expensive, passenger car and heavy-duty diesel motor oil additives. These additives have already passed all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or synthetic based formulation. Then we work with the additive company to maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package in selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing additive package for reduced wear and extended drain intervals. This is unlike other oil companies who, because additives are expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives required to meet the minimum API requirements.

We then utilize a blend of synthetic basestocks with known performance characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum basestocks to optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points, deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. We also will utilize a high quality V.I. improver with better viscosity and cleanliness properties. This replaces the inexpensive, low quality V.I. improver used in the API licensed petroleum formula. We do laboratory bench tests before running field tests to verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. We also continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide variety of vehicles all around North America and the World. AMSOIL INC. has been collecting used synthetic oil samples from passenger cars since 1982. No other oil company has such a vast database of the performance of synthetic lubricants over extended drain intervals.

AMSOIL INC.'s products and formulations outperform API licensed oils. They're engineered that way. Period.
Conclusion

AMSOIL INC. takes pride in never having conformed to industry norms or standards when those standards are contrary to peak performance. We introduced synthetics to the automotive world in 1972 with the first synthetic motor oil to exceed API performance specifications. At that time other manufacturers refused to recognize the superior performance of synthetic motor oils. Now, however, most companies sell synthetic lubricants, vehicles are factory filled with synthetic motor oils and gear lubes, and some manufacturers even offer extended warranties if you use synthetics. AMSOIL has always offered extended drain intervals because the oil was capable of performing for extended drains, and it was the right thing to do for the consumer. Now the entire industry is moving in that direction. Ironically, GM is now extending drain intervals (as much as 12,000+ miles) through the use of their oil life monitoring system, and some foreign automakers recommend 10,000 mile and longer oil drain intervals. Additionally, competitive oil companies are now extending drain intervals and even Mobil is recommending 15,000-mile oil drains for oils that are not API SM licensed.
AMSOIL is a company of firsts. That doesn't happen by always conforming to industry norms and standards.

API licensing of lubricants is voluntary, and it ensures automobile manufacturers and consumers that the product meets a set of minimum standards. Should these standards, in the future, be raised to a level consistent with AMSOIL's standards for motor oil performance, AMSOIL will consider licensing all oils. For those that feel pressured to use an API licensed product, we have them and encourage you to use them (XLM, XLF, XLT, XLO and PCO). AMSOIL does offer better performing motor oils that are not API licensed for all of the reasons explained in this response. They provide our customers with alternatives to the commodity products typically available in the market today. If you want the convenience of extended drain intervals or the top performance from your vehicle, AMSOIL has taken time to engineer the very best money can buy.

Do you think that using a real synthetic like Red Line or Amsoil is better than the group III based synthetics (synthetic by court definition) like Syntec or Mobil 1?

A better question, will you or your engine ever know the difference?? IMHO, only your bank account will know the difference. My opinion is reflected from above:

1. Change oil (and oil filter) frequently, especially if your
car runs at low speeds or idles much.
2. It does not really matter what kind of conventional oils
you use; they are more or less the same.
3. Use synthetic oils is better (except for the first 12,000 miles
or so).

The oil itself never degrades over time; it's the degradation of
the additives, unburned gas leaking into the oil, and particulate
matters that kill the oil. So doing (1) or (3) would protect
your engine.


Everything else is splitting hairs and will not likely make a difference in the life of your engine.

Thai, thanks for the info. You have confirmed what I think is a general plan for addressing the use of engine oil. I'm just surprised that so many Mobil 1 users thing they are getting something special with their engine oil. And not that the prices for Mobil 1 are going up, I guess that's proof that advertising works. There is not one bit of evidense that Mobil 1 products have but just a small amount of Group IV and Group V stocks in the mix and that the greater portion of the product is GIII. Most lab tests run by those in fleet service has shown just a tiny bit of anything but GIII oil. In the end it might just be the best idea to get something like Chevron conventional oil that is available for a buck or less a quart and change it every 5k miles.

And I have heard of a lot of GOOD things about Chevron oil.