[1engineer]

So this is a thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...100-first.html that was happening last night in the 5th gen section.
Basically we have lost many of the older and wiser guys because all the newbies keep asking the same "Anyone put bigger tires on their truck yet" type of questions. They then get mad when you give them a link and tell them to search but you guys know the drill. After a while you lose interest and move on.
When the idea for making a mandatory post count before you could start a new thread for new guys was floated the new guys bristled of course.
I then had the idea of a Veteran's Section of the forum. Basically by doing this you:
1. Don't piss off the new guys by making a minimum post count rule.
2. Have a place guys with some time or higher post count to go and actually help each other out without a new guy wanting to know about plasti dip in a suspension thread.

I have talked to many guys over the years from different generations of 4Runners that are good people. In the 5th gen section we have lost several good knowledgeable people because of new guys posting the sam questions 900 different ways.

I also realize this website is a business and the more members and posts there are the more money can be made. I think a Veteran's section would help:
1. Retain the more seasoned members
2. Give the new guys something to shoot for eventually in regard to time and post count
3. Keep the new members happy by having no minimum post count before starting a thread.

We (at least I) would still post and help in the 5th gen section. This "Veteran's section" would just be a catch all place to go if you have a post count of "X" (say 1000) or have been a member for "Y" years. If we don't do this, I will probably decrease my time here just like all the other guys have.

So, @admin , @zopperman , @SVdude and all the other mods, what do you think?

[BrianSD_42]

Yeah ... Get the f@#k off my lawn!

LoL

[bofa]

Can't you just ignore the post? Don't feel obligated to reply just because you know the answer. I know that's a tough adjustment for those of us that try to be helpful, but otherwise you'll find yourself a bit disgruntled.

[KidVermicious]

Originally Posted by bofa

Can't you just ignore the post? Don't feel obligated to reply just because you know the answer. I know that's a tough adjustment for those of us that try to be helpful, but otherwise you'll find yourself a bit disgruntled.

I said a little bit ago, but that thread got deleted so I'm going to say it again here - it's not that the repeated "what size tire can I fit" threads are personally offensive, it's that they clutter up the board and crap up the signal to noise ratio. They make it harder for the guys that are actually bothering to search for answers to find them, and thus increase that chance that any random poster will looking for an answer will post yet another thread about gear ratios or running board deletes or whatever.

I don't have anything against random banter, and I'm not suggesting that all noobs must toe some invisible line or anything, but I am suggesting that the primary purpose of the board is tech and the repeated duplicate/misplaced/just-plain-stupid threads are getting in the way of that purpose. Asking people to ignore the problematic threads will not fix that, and is not an answer to the problem that 1engineer is complaining about.

[nevans2005]

Originally Posted by bofa

Can't you just ignore the post? Don't feel obligated to reply just because you know the answer. I know that's a tough adjustment for those of us that try to be helpful, but otherwise you'll find yourself a bit disgruntled.

I'm a newbie...there I said it. Having admitted that I think we're missing the bigger picture here. I agree with having a Veteran's Page of some sort, view only for those of us who have not reached the milestone. The problem is not as easily solved as ignoring a post. The fact is what are veterans going to learn from someone like myself, probably little to nothing. So what value does this forum add to veteran members? It gives them a place to answer questions and that's about it, which is not enough to keep them engaged. Veterans need veterans to talk to and bounce stuff off of. And when a veteran question gets lost in the mix of tire size questions and stubby antenna questions, the veteran becomes disengaged in the forum as a whole

[BrianSD_42]

The reason I would be hesitent to vote for a veterans section or special status of old times (not age but post count) is the fact that some senior people will undoubtedly rub it in the new members faces.

Not necessarily anyone on this thread but I believe it would happen.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by KidVermicious

I said a little bit ago, but that thread got deleted so I'm going to say it again here - it's not that the repeated "what size tire can I fit" threads are personally offensive, it's that they clutter up the board and crap up the signal to noise ratio. They make it harder for the guys that are actually bothering to search for answers to find them, and thus increase that chance that any random poster will looking for an answer will post yet another thread about gear ratios or running board deletes or whatever.

I don't have anything against random banter, and I'm not suggesting that all noobs must toe some invisible line or anything, but I am suggesting that the primary purpose of the board is tech and the repeated duplicate/misplaced/just-plain-stupid threads are getting in the way of that purpose. Asking people to ignore the problematic threads will not fix that, and is not an answer to the problem that 1engineer is complaining about.

If you are worried about clutter, that's a moderation issue. A senior forum won't solve that. That's like solving crime by moving to a new neighborhood.

Originally Posted by nevans2005

I'm a newbie...there I said it. Having admitted that I think we're missing the bigger picture here. I agree with having a Veteran's Page of some sort, view only for those of us who have not reached the milestone. The problem is not as easily solved as ignoring a post. The fact is what are veterans going to learn from someone like myself, probably little to nothing. So what value does this forum add to veteran members? It gives them a place to answer questions and that's about it, which is not enough to keep them engaged. Veterans need veterans to talk to and bounce stuff off of. And when a veteran question gets lost in the mix of tire size questions and stubby antenna questions, the veteran becomes disengaged in the forum as a whole

There are plenty of newbies that can offer experience or answers to questions. You don't have to have 2000 posts here or hang around for a couple of years to be knowledgeable. Hell, 1engineer and Antman were noobies once but that doesn't discount 1engineer's engineering knowledge or Antman's ingenuity, or their ability to be resourceful. What will be more disengaging is to have a bunch of newbie questions that never get answered because the people with the answers want to play in their own sandbox.

Originally Posted by BrianSD_42

The reason I would be hesitent to vote for a veterans section or special status of old times (not age but post count) is the fact that some senior people will undoubtedly rub it in the new members faces.

Not necessarily anyone on this thread but I believe it would happen.

That and the fact that people with more posts or longer memberships aren't necessarily more knowledgeable. Most of my posts here lately have been in the O/T section (primarily because the 5th gen thread makes me want to spend money ... that and I'm using you guys for social interaction on my slow days.) There's probably plenty of questions I couldn't answer in the 5th gen forum, let alone other gens.

[KidVermicious]

Originally Posted by bofa

If you are worried about clutter, that's a moderation issue. A senior forum won't solve that. That's like solving crime by moving to a new neighborhood.

Agreed. I'm not for or against the idea of a veteran forum for old guys and post whores, though I think it's worth talking about. I do agree with 1engineer that there's a problem with post clutter, and was objecting to your suggestion that ignoring the clutter posts would solve the problem.

[1engineer]

Originally Posted by bofa

There are plenty of newbies that can offer experience or answers to questions. You don't have to have 2000 posts here or hang around for a couple of years to be knowledgeable. Hell, 1engineer and Antman were noobies once but that doesn't discount 1engineer's engineering knowledge or Antman's ingenuity, or their ability to be resourceful. What will be more disengaging is to have a bunch of newbie questions that never get answered because the people with the answers want to play in their own sandbox.

That and the fact that people with more posts or longer memberships aren't necessarily more knowledgeable. Most of my posts here lately have been in the O/T section (primarily because the 5th gen thread makes me want to spend money ... that and I'm using you guys for social interaction on my slow days.) There's probably plenty of questions I couldn't answer in the 5th gen forum, let alone other gens.

The whole point is giving veterans a place to go. You say questions won't get answered because they will be too busy in their own sandbox. What they are doing now is just going away period. At least this would maybe keep them here.

As far as answering the same questions 1000 times: Why do I do it? Why don't I just not click on it or ignore it? Because of wrong answers that's why. I don't know how many threads I have purposely NOT answered immediately because I am waiting for somebody else to step up. Case in point: I developed a Tire Fitment Guide for the 5th Gens that answers all the fitment questions, tells you which size will rub, possible mods you will have to make and all the stock wheel BS and offset info. Some noob asked a few days ago if a X size would fit. There were 5 answers and they were all like "It should fit" or "I ran a size bigger with spacers so your size should fit" or those wheels should be black" and such nonsense. I answered with a link to the tire guide. The noob answers were crap and told the OP nothing. THAT'S why I answer. I can't stand wrong. Yeah I know that's a personal problem and I should get help but that's my response.

[SV_Dude]

This is a problem that has always been an issue here and most likely always will be. There is no one way to make everyone happy. I'm all for an organized forum with good tech and I think we have that already. We will always have newbs that don't search and want the answers handed to them. Those people will always be here but the bes we can do is direct them to the search feature. If they still don't want to search then they should be ignored. There is no perfect fix for this issue.

As for a veteran sub forum, I wouldn't say it's a good or bad thing but I don't know how it will be useful or any different than this OT section.

[BrianSD_42]

The whole point is giving veterans a place to go

I just don't see why any high post count users would want to hang out in a section for just them.

Personally (on a weekly basis) I enjoy seeing the new builds and posts a lot more than the older ones.

I think the original idea of a post count limit is much more practical. But I think the limit should be more like 5/10 posts. And make them have to acknowledge the stickies before their first full new thread.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by 1engineer

The whole point is giving veterans a place to go. You say questions won't get answered because they will be too busy in their own sandbox. What they are doing now is just going away period. At least this would maybe keep them here.

As far as answering the same questions 1000 times: Why do I do it? Why don't I just not click on it or ignore it? Because of wrong answers that's why. I don't know how many threads I have purposely NOT answered immediately because I am waiting for somebody else to step up. Case in point: I developed a Tire Fitment Guide for the 5th Gens that answers all the fitment questions, tells you which size will rub, possible mods you will have to make and all the stock wheel BS and offset info. Some noob asked a few days ago if a X size would fit. There were 5 answers and they were all like "It should fit" or "I ran a size bigger with spacers so your size should fit" or those wheels should be black" and such nonsense. I answered with a link to the tire guide. The noob answers were crap and told the OP nothing. THAT'S why I answer. I can't stand wrong. Yeah I know that's a personal problem and I should get help but that's my response.

Then your posts are serving a purpose.

Think about it like this... what if you bought a *gasp* Pilot (or as I like to call them.. faux runner) and stopped posting here. The world would go on. Someone else would answer or people would learn the hard way. This place doesn't have to be the end-all be-all knowledge source.

There's an evolution to forum participation and knowledge sharing. Just look at any upstart forum.

[1engineer]

Then that's fine. I know the world will continue it always does. I was just looking for a way to keep good older members here.

[02SE]

Originally Posted by 1engineer

The whole point is giving veterans a place to go. You say questions won't get answered because they will be too busy in their own sandbox. What they are doing now is just going away period. At least this would maybe keep them here.

As far as answering the same questions 1000 times: Why do I do it? Why don't I just not click on it or ignore it? Because of wrong answers that's why. I don't know how many threads I have purposely NOT answered immediately because I am waiting for somebody else to step up. Case in point: I developed a Tire Fitment Guide for the 5th Gens that answers all the fitment questions, tells you which size will rub, possible mods you will have to make and all the stock wheel BS and offset info. Some noob asked a few days ago if a X size would fit. There were 5 answers and they were all like "It should fit" or "I ran a size bigger with spacers so your size should fit" or those wheels should be black" and such nonsense. I answered with a link to the tire guide. The noob answers were crap and told the OP nothing. THAT'S why I answer. I can't stand wrong. Yeah I know that's a personal problem and I should get help but that's my response.

This is my biggest issue with the board. There is so much misinformation posted, that it's maddening. You can either spend all day every day correcting posted info, and in the process become known as some sort of forum-nazi know-it-all, or maintain your sanity and simply step back and let the incorrect info posts slide.

I don't know that a Veteran's section is the answer though. Someone could join today, that is eminently capable of answering questions knowledgeably and correctly. But if they have a life away from internet forums, and don't post thousands of "cool rims bro" type replies, may never accrue a high post count.

So what is the answer? This website represents different things to different people. They will either stay or leave, regardless of what changes are enacted.

[nevans2005]

Just a thought but instead of a veteran section, what about a newbie section? A forum is kind of like kindergarten. When you first are starting out you don't know what you are doing, when you're supposed to do something, or where you find something, but the older kids are there to help you find your way so you can function in that classroom. So we create a room for the new guys where they can ask those questions that have been answered many times, and they can be answered by anyone that dares log into that section to answer questions. That way you don't have someone asking Antman or 1Engineer what stubby antenna is the best.

Once you have contributed enough to the newbie forum you can be "graduated" into the rest of the forum.

And no I'm not trying to kiss the A** of Antman or 1Engineer, but Antman has been a lot of help to me, and 1Engineer is an engineer.