Home Menu

Site Navigation


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-06-2015, 11:24 AM #1
NoDak's Avatar
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
NoDak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
Trans Pacific Partnership Is A First Step To Cheap, Small Pickups In The U.S.

The landmark Trans Pacific Partnership trade agreement got signed today and it could mean the end of the most restrictive tariff in the American auto industry. But it’s only the start of a difficult and secretive process.

I am talking about the Chicken Tax, implemented by LBJ as some cold-as-ice revenge on France and Germany back in the ‘60s. France and Germany had the nerve to put a tariff on American chickens going into their countries, so LBJ and the UAW’s Walter Reuther hit them with a 25% import duty on potato starch, dextrin, brandy, and small pickups.

**** with our chickens and we shut down the sales of your Volkswagen Microbus, we told the world.
But that was half a century ago. In the meantime, the Chicken Tax has done much more to mess with the American auto market than anything else. Automotive News, interviewing former head of Hyundai in the U.S. John Krafcik, explains how the tax helped dumb down this country’s biggest car segment.

To sell a pickup truck in America while avoiding the Chicken Tax, a truck has to be built in the America, too. And for a foreign carmaker, that means building a new factory to build the truck. That’s not cheap. Krafcik puts the cost in the billions. With such a big investment, the foreign carmaker has to be sure it can recoup that initial cost, and that means they play things safe and avoid risk. So they invariably choose to build full-size trucks, as full-size trucks are the most common, profitable trucks in the U.S. They are the safest bet.

Krafcik elaborated, stating, “I think what is lost the most is low-volume experimentation and innovation in pickups. As soon as you get to that level of investment, the risks become so great that the solutions become fairly mainstream.”

That’s what Nissan did when they redoubled their efforts in the American truck market with the Titan, that’s what Toyota did with the Tundra. Both companies had made names for themselves in the U.S. with little trucks like the HiLux and the Datsun King Cab.

So you can see that the Chicken Tax has had two key influences in the U.S.: it has kept foreign truckmakers who build exclusively small trucks from importing into the U.S., and it has encouraged those companies that do actually build trucks in the U.S. to keep them large, and simple, and unadventurous.

And now the Trans Pacific Partnership may do away with all of that.

As the New York Times reported today, one of the final sticking points of the agreement was “a slow phaseout—-over two to three decades—of the tariffs on Japan’s autos sold in North America.”

In another article published today, Automotive News also noted that “the deal includes provisions to eliminate U.S. import tariffs of 2.5 percent on cars and 25 percent on trucks” from Japan, again with a two-decade timeframe. AN went further, explaining that there was a push to allow foreign carmakers building cars and trucks in the U.S. to source more parts from back home in Asia without incurring the 25% tariff. That would again make life easier for anyone wanting to get a small, imported truck into the U.S.

The trouble is we don’t know the specific wording of the partnership because it’s secret. So we don’t know if the Chicken Tax will only get cut for states that have signed on to the partnership or not. If that’s the case we’re still left with a big hole in the range of trucks we could get. We’re still leaving out all kinds of weird little trucks from even smaller markets. The European truck market, home of the VW Amarok, would get left off, for instance. Even worse, we’d miss out on tiny compact El Camino-esque trucklets like the Chevrolet Montana, based off of an old Opel and built in Brazil and South Africa.

Uruguay gets the Montana and America does not! It’s madness.
Surprisingly, not even all Asian trucks would get a break in a deal only involving members of the Trans Pacific Partnership. Thailand has not signed on, and their truck production is staggering. They build the Ford Ranger, the related Mazda BT-50, the Mitsubishi Triton, and the Toyota HiLux. Not that any of those trucks are really small. The HiLux is actually longer and taller than the Tacoma.

And even if all of these vehicles were suddenly allowed entry into the U.S. without a 25% tariff, they’d still have to comply with the America’s unique emissions and safety requirements. Ask Volkswagen’s diesel department if you’re wondering how much of a hurdle that can be for success in the U.S.

So this might be the end of the Chicken Tax. It’s just probably a bit more complicated than Obama signing a lease on a new Ford Ranger tomorrow.

original article : The Trans Pacific Partnership Is A First Step To Cheap, Small Pickups In The U.S.
__________________
80 PhoenixLJ/84 CelicaGT/84 & 87 Cressida/89 Toy Truck 2wd/91 Cressida x 2/93 Paseo/96 Protege/98 4Rv6/04 4R Sport v8/06 Taco AC v6/07 Sonata SE v6/09 Rav4 v6/10 Legacy 3.6R/12 Taco DC v6/09 Avenger SXT/09 Corolla XLE/14 4R LE/14 Rav4 XLE/15 Camry XSE/16 Taco DC v6 Sport/16 Highlander XLE/18 Tundra Plat/18 Santa Fe Ult

2014 4R LE Classic Silver Build Thread
E5-Exhaust Tip / MF-Mudflaps / R6-Running Boards / 2Q-All Weather Mats / 3P-Paint Protection Film
NoDak is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 11:49 AM #2
cashmoney cashmoney is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Georgetown, TX
Posts: 1,244
cashmoney is on a distinguished road
cashmoney cashmoney is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Georgetown, TX
Posts: 1,244
cashmoney is on a distinguished road
Meh. Small trucks have never served a purpose for me so I don't see the benefit. All I see is America slowly turning in to the rest of the world with tiny cars. I like my big trucks.
__________________
1989 Toyota 4runner
cashmoney is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 12:08 PM #3
Thai's Avatar
Thai Thai is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold
Thai Thai is offline
Elite Member
Thai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold
For me, I am waiting for the 2017 Honda Ridgeline.
__________________
My 2019 Land Cruiser
My 2023 Ford F150 Platinum FX4 Powerboost with 7.2 kW ProPower Onboard
2023 Lexus GX
2024 Subaru Impreza RS
Lets Go Brandon!
Thai is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 12:32 PM #4
Gun13 Gun13 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: lOS AngeleS
Posts: 3
Gun13 is on a distinguished road
Gun13 Gun13 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: lOS AngeleS
Posts: 3
Gun13 is on a distinguished road
Will the sticker price of our beloved 4Runners go down; further, will the 4Runner depreciate a lot quicker? I think an increase in 4Runner supply will de-value our rigs. Can I claim the depreciation on my taxes? I'll file a T4R-EZ-Form
Gun13 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 12:59 PM #5
BlackWorksInc's Avatar
BlackWorksInc BlackWorksInc is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 9,902
BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold
BlackWorksInc BlackWorksInc is offline
Elite Member
BlackWorksInc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 9,902
BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai View Post
For me, I am waiting for the 2017 Honda Ridgeline.
Why do you want the bad Asian copy of a Ford Ranchero (yes I mean Ranchero since it was a bad copy of an El Camino :P)
BlackWorksInc is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 01:31 PM #6
Thai's Avatar
Thai Thai is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold
Thai Thai is offline
Elite Member
Thai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold Thai is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc View Post
Why do you want the bad Asian copy of a Ford Ranchero (yes I mean Ranchero since it was a bad copy of an El Camino :P)
Why not? I do not need to tow anything heavy nor am I in construction biz. I just need space to haul stuff for home improvement/landscaping stuff. At the same time, I need something that is smooth riding, roomy inside for 3 kids, safety (crash scores) and (hopefully this time) good on gas. If it can get close to fuel economy of Honda Pilot, then that is great!

As for it being a copy...why do I care? As long as it works as advertised, it can copy whoever it wants!
__________________
My 2019 Land Cruiser
My 2023 Ford F150 Platinum FX4 Powerboost with 7.2 kW ProPower Onboard
2023 Lexus GX
2024 Subaru Impreza RS
Lets Go Brandon!
Thai is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 02:59 PM #7
BlackWorksInc's Avatar
BlackWorksInc BlackWorksInc is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 9,902
BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold
BlackWorksInc BlackWorksInc is offline
Elite Member
BlackWorksInc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 9,902
BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold BlackWorksInc is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai View Post
Why not? I do not need to tow anything heavy nor am I in construction biz. I just need space to haul stuff for home improvement/landscaping stuff. At the same time, I need something that is smooth riding, roomy inside for 3 kids, safety (crash scores) and (hopefully this time) good on gas. If it can get close to fuel economy of Honda Pilot, then that is great!

As for it being a copy...why do I care? As long as it works as advertised, it can copy whoever it wants!
Can't believe I a going to say this, but that actually sounds like a reasonable use for a Ridgeline... I'm going to go shoot myself now...
BlackWorksInc is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 04:12 PM #8
Bigshankhank Bigshankhank is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 294
Real Name: Tyler
Bigshankhank is on a distinguished road
Bigshankhank Bigshankhank is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 294
Real Name: Tyler
Bigshankhank is on a distinguished road
I am not certain that, just for the sake of small pickup trucks coming to american shores, I can fully support the TPP. Considering what NAFTA did to US manufacturing (who knew Ross Perot would be right) I am leary of seeing SE Asian countries with shitty working conditions and no labor laws taking more manufacturing jobs away from the world.
__________________
2008 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD
Bigshankhank is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 04:24 PM #9
KidVermicious's Avatar
KidVermicious KidVermicious is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Utard
Posts: 12,985
Real Name: Kevin
KidVermicious has a spectacular aura about KidVermicious has a spectacular aura about
KidVermicious KidVermicious is offline
Elite Member
KidVermicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Utard
Posts: 12,985
Real Name: Kevin
KidVermicious has a spectacular aura about KidVermicious has a spectacular aura about
The Chicken Tax is not why Ford dropped the Ranger or Dodge dropped the Dakota.
__________________
.
'My needle always settles between west and southwest. The future lies that way to me, and the earth seems more unexhausted and richer on that side.' - Thoreau, sort of.

The Grey Bastard, 1985 4Runner, driveway ornament.
Utah DesertRunners T4R, for all things wheeling and 4Runner in Utah.

Last edited by KidVermicious; 10-06-2015 at 04:26 PM.
KidVermicious is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 01:20 PM #10
Jernik's Avatar
Jernik Jernik is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Katy TX
Posts: 806
Real Name: Jeremy
Jernik is a jewel in the rough Jernik is a jewel in the rough Jernik is a jewel in the rough
Jernik Jernik is offline
Member
Jernik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Katy TX
Posts: 806
Real Name: Jeremy
Jernik is a jewel in the rough Jernik is a jewel in the rough Jernik is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidVermicious View Post
The Chicken Tax is not why Ford dropped the Ranger or Dodge dropped the Dakota.
And I remember the true small trucks from Datsun, Toyota, Nissan, Chevy, Ford, and Dodge well after the 60's.

Besides, the new "small" trucks are not really small at all. They are closer to what full size was back in the 80's. And full size trucks now are just huge.

Personally, I like small trucks. They definitely fit a niche, are easier to maneuver in the Lowes or Home Depot parking lot, and for the majority of people they will do all that's ever asked of them. Would be nice if you could get a basic small truck with a 6.5' bed, 4 cylinder, manual transmission with AC and basic radio for about $12K again...
__________________
Toyota noob
Jernik is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 04:48 PM #11
Bigshankhank Bigshankhank is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 294
Real Name: Tyler
Bigshankhank is on a distinguished road
Bigshankhank Bigshankhank is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 294
Real Name: Tyler
Bigshankhank is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jernik View Post
Would be nice if you could get a basic small truck with a 6.5' bed, 4 cylinder, manual transmission with AC and basic radio for about $12K again...
I would still have my old '86 Mazda B2200 if not for a wanton drunk driver cutting in front of me a few years ago, and even after that it was still driveable.
Sadly, we cannot get vehicles built simply and priced like that anymore because we have to be protected from ourselves, between overarching safety features adding weight and complexity and increasing emissions controls adding a lot of cost. I guess its all for the best, though.
__________________
2008 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD
Bigshankhank is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 05:22 PM #12
NoDak's Avatar
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
NoDak NoDak is offline
Senior Member
NoDak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Minot, ND
Age: 57
Posts: 3,131
Real Name: JR
NoDak is on a distinguished road
back when the warden and I was first married, this was the used truck we bought for her.

2wd brown manual and decent overall (minus the hubcaps on this example). was great while it lasted but eventually we moved on to bigger and better things.

.
Attached Images
Trans Pacific Partnership Is A First Step To Cheap, Small Pickups In The U.S.-old-truck-toyota-jpg 
__________________
80 PhoenixLJ/84 CelicaGT/84 & 87 Cressida/89 Toy Truck 2wd/91 Cressida x 2/93 Paseo/96 Protege/98 4Rv6/04 4R Sport v8/06 Taco AC v6/07 Sonata SE v6/09 Rav4 v6/10 Legacy 3.6R/12 Taco DC v6/09 Avenger SXT/09 Corolla XLE/14 4R LE/14 Rav4 XLE/15 Camry XSE/16 Taco DC v6 Sport/16 Highlander XLE/18 Tundra Plat/18 Santa Fe Ult

2014 4R LE Classic Silver Build Thread
E5-Exhaust Tip / MF-Mudflaps / R6-Running Boards / 2Q-All Weather Mats / 3P-Paint Protection Film
NoDak is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 05:22 PM #13
MtnT4R's Avatar
MtnT4R MtnT4R is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: High Rockies
Posts: 1,105
MtnT4R is on a distinguished road
MtnT4R MtnT4R is offline
Senior Member
MtnT4R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: High Rockies
Posts: 1,105
MtnT4R is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigshankhank View Post
Sadly, we cannot get vehicles built simply and priced like that anymore because we have to be protected from ourselves, between overarching safety features adding weight and complexity and increasing emissions controls adding a lot of cost.
Unfortunately I haven't seen any evidence from the general public recently to argue otherwise. People are barely responsible enough these days to tie their own shoes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigshankhank View Post
I guess its all for the best, though.
__________________
'02 SR5

"Gas pedal's on the right.'
~Logan

Last edited by MtnT4R; 10-07-2015 at 05:25 PM.
MtnT4R is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 09:57 PM #14
absalom's Avatar
absalom absalom is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Delft, Netherlands
Age: 18
Posts: 2,049
Real Name: Jordan
absalom has a spectacular aura about absalom has a spectacular aura about
absalom absalom is offline
Senior Member
absalom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Delft, Netherlands
Age: 18
Posts: 2,049
Real Name: Jordan
absalom has a spectacular aura about absalom has a spectacular aura about
Remove chicken tax within 20 year time frame? Did I read that right? I'm willing to bet a shiny nickel that self driving cars will be main stream by then.
absalom is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 10:34 AM #15
BrianSD_42's Avatar
BrianSD_42 BrianSD_42 is offline
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Age: 41
Posts: 11,437
Real Name: Instagram: briansd_97r
BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice
BrianSD_42 BrianSD_42 is offline
Elite Member
BrianSD_42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Age: 41
Posts: 11,437
Real Name: Instagram: briansd_97r
BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice BrianSD_42 is just really nice
Quote:
The landmark Trans Pacific Partnership trade agreement got signed today
This treaty has not been "passed" yet.

It sounds awful. It's modeled off the 2011 South Korean free trade agreement which was supposed to bring new jobs and new markets but only increased the trade deficit and resulted in 75,000+ job losses in the US. The TPP if passed could lead to millions in job losses.

U.S.-Korea Trade Deal Resulted in Growing Trade Deficits and More Than 75,000 Lost U.S. Jobs | Economic Policy Institute

Quote:
March 15th was the third anniversary of the U.S.-Korea Free Trade Agreement (KORUS). President Obama said that the agreement would support 70,000 U.S. jobs. This claim was supported by a White House fact sheet that claimed that the KORUS agreement would “increase exports of American goods by $10 to $11 billion…” and that they would “support 70,000 American jobs from increased goods exports alone.” Things are not turning out as predicted. Far from supporting jobs, growing goods trade deficits with Korea have eliminated more than 75,000 jobs between 2011 and 2014.

Expanding exports alone is not enough to ensure that trade adds jobs to the economy. Increases in U.S. exports tend to create jobs in the United States, but increases in imports lead to job loss—by destroying existing jobs and preventing new job creation—as imports displace goods that otherwise would have been made in the United States by domestic workers. Thus, it is changes in trade balances—the net of exports and imports—that determine the number of jobs created or displaced by trade and investment deals like KORUS.

In the first three years after KORUS took effect, U.S. domestic exports to Korea increased by only $0.8 billion, an increase of 1.8%, as shown in the figure below. Imports from Korea increased $12.6 billion, an increase of 22.5%. As a result, the U.S.trade deficit with Korea increased $11.8 billion between 2011 and 2014, an increase of 80.4%, nearly doubling in just three years.
Attached Images
Trans Pacific Partnership Is A First Step To Cheap, Small Pickups In The U.S.-147-body-png 
__________________
Those he commands move only in command, Nothing in love. Now does he feel his title, Hang loose about him, like a giant’s robe, Upon a dwarfish treasonous thief.

Last edited by BrianSD_42; 10-10-2015 at 10:40 AM.
BrianSD_42 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
diesel 4-Runners/pickups for sale Sidney Classic T4Rs 5 01-02-2018 12:13 PM
Cheap Chrome Side Step Bars TheLast13 5th gen T4Rs 1 09-21-2014 10:00 PM
FS in FL: Trail Gear SS Front Brake Lines (79-95 Pickups & 85-95 4Runners) - $50 912 For Sale: T4R Items 0 08-04-2014 02:02 PM
hitch step for cheap truckhigh Engines / Suspension / Wheels / Tires / Audio / Accessories 0 11-10-2005 07:33 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
***This site is an unofficial Toyota site, and is not officially endorsed, supported, authorized by or affiliated with Toyota. All company, product, or service names references in this web site are used for identification purposes only and may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Toyota name, marks, designs and logos, as well as Toyota model names, are registered trademarks of Toyota Motor Corporation***Ad Management plugin by RedTyger
 
Copyright © 2020