12-30-2017, 10:53 PM
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#61
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Reak Show
Got me. I'll leave you to your Japanese vehicle filled with middle eastern fuel while you receive this on a Chinese built phone.
Hahahaha you're getting really personal. And really closed minded. You've turned down my thoughts without hearing one word. Proving my point further. You make my job of making you look dumb really easy.
*and it's not just Netflix. I also used to watch the West Wing.
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Yeah, you get your ideas from Netflix and West Wing...enough said!
Keep going with your utopia fantasy and bitterness. One way ticket?
Last edited by Thai; 12-30-2017 at 11:24 PM.
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12-31-2017, 12:09 AM
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#62
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: the Socialist State of Maryland
Posts: 11,451
Real Name: The Chosen One
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: the Socialist State of Maryland
Posts: 11,451
Real Name: The Chosen One
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All,
This started out casual but is now getting unnecessarily personal.
PLEASE TONE IT DOWN
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12-31-2017, 12:38 AM
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#63
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 70
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NJ
Posts: 70
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Most who are disgusted by the tax plan don't even know what's in the tax plan.
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12-31-2017, 02:47 AM
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#64
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Age: 41
Posts: 11,437
Real Name: Instagram: briansd_97r
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Elite Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Age: 41
Posts: 11,437
Real Name: Instagram: briansd_97r
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I know what's in it and I don't like it because it increases the federal debt by $1.5 - $2 Trillion.
My conservative and libertarian side is outraged that we are borrowing against the treasury just to give out a super tax give away to the richest of the rich. And I don't mean high income. I mean the rich. Those making 400,000 or more are getting a windfall with this tax deal and it's an obnoxious give away at the expense of our kids and grandkids generations.
It doesn't matter that I will personally pay less taxes. What matters most to me is that my country is borrowing a mass sum by issuing debt on the market just so the super rich pay A LOT less in taxes in coming years.
Few people will debate me on this -on the actual points- because deep down folks here know that borrowing $1.5 - $2 Trillion against your future kids America, without investing a single dollar in better schools or roads or hospitals or even the military folks claim to love so much, is not actually good for America. Folks know it is wrong and shameful to do this.
My comments are not to any one member, believe it or not. Everyone is entitled to their political thoughts and I certainly respect our right to disagree.
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Last edited by BrianSD_42; 12-31-2017 at 03:27 AM.
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12-31-2017, 04:05 AM
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#65
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,824
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi327
You can’t keep condemning the wealthy they are the backbone of the economy. Rubio made that whole stance on child tax credit for low income families. It turned out to be an additional 75.00, really! More BS and grandstanding by useless politicians. I think Pelosi is equally hated by both parties. Sorry went on a tangent. Don’t get all upset liberals. I am an independent....equally disappointed by both parties
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I think you misunderstand, dude. The middle class is the backbone of the economy... And American Society. If trickle down doesn’t work, and there’s empirical evidence that it doesn’t, the rich get richer and the middle class starts to disappear. And that’s a big problem.
Although I do find it ironic that those that defend the 1% here are all about ‘draining the swamp’ and hating the banks when they completely ****ed us in 2008 and when they’ll inevitably **** us again in the next recession. Also they condemn them for not bringing ‘our jobs’ back. Innovation requires adaptation. And the poor, (never mind that our education system is already a disgrace), can’t afford to get an education or learn a new skill because time is money and there are people who are surviving pay check to pay check. Other countries are smarter and willing to work for cheaper. And here we are, believing the world is flat, vaccines are poison, and Hilary is the evilest mother****er to ever walk the earth.
Clearly I lean left, but at the same time I think the right has valid points and arguments. The left should have played ball on tax reform, and the right should have put more than 6 mins of forethought into this sweeping change.
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Last edited by simple; 12-31-2017 at 04:08 AM.
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12-31-2017, 05:42 AM
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#66
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 36
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSD_42
I know what's in it and I don't like it because it increases the federal debt by $1.5 - $2 Trillion.
My conservative and libertarian side is outraged that we are borrowing against the treasury just to give out a super tax give away to the richest of the rich. And I don't mean high income. I mean the rich. Those making 400,000 or more are getting a windfall with this tax deal and it's an obnoxious give away at the expense of our kids and grandkids generations.
It doesn't matter that I will personally pay less taxes. What matters most to me is that my country is borrowing a mass sum by issuing debt on the market just so the super rich pay A LOT less in taxes in coming years.
Few people will debate me on this -on the actual points- because deep down folks here know that borrowing $1.5 - $2 Trillion against your future kids America, without investing a single dollar in better schools or roads or hospitals or even the military folks claim to love so much, is not actually good for America. Folks know it is wrong and shameful to do this.
My comments are not to any one member, believe it or not. Everyone is entitled to their political thoughts and I certainly respect our right to disagree.
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I dont trust the Government to provide what the cost of any law will be. They don't do budgets like any business or we do at our dining room tables. The Dems in congress that are complaining about this future Trillion dollar cost didn't care before. In fact Nancy Polosie said something like it was good for the economy. lol
This tax cut should be looked at like a "loss leader". Like when a business has a sale or sells something at a loss to get you to buy other things than the one item that you came in for. The money that business and individuals don't give to the Government in taxes will go somewhere. It will go back to expanding existing business (hiring companies that build new plants - who will hire new workers to build the plants, for example). It will go back to individuals (even if only $40/month) who will spend it on fast food or something. The influx of more people buying fast food will cause those companies to hire more.
This is the "trickle down" that is talked about. It isn't necessarily that more people will get cash (some will), but that there will be more opportunities (jobs).
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12-31-2017, 06:11 AM
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#67
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern California
Age: 37
Posts: 1,471
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Age: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai
Yeah, you get your ideas from Netflix and West Wing...enough said!
Keep going with your utopia fantasy and bitterness. One way ticket?
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Sarcasm bro. As if any word uttered here has any bearing on Washington. Don't you get that I've been messing with you this whole time? I would disagree with you no matter the stance just for a rise.
Sheesh. It's a forum for mid sized SUVs. Welcome to the land of trolls and honey.
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12-31-2017, 09:29 AM
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#68
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
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Elite Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Reak Show
Sarcasm bro. As if any word uttered here has any bearing on Washington. Don't you get that I've been messing with you this whole time? I would disagree with you no matter the stance just for a rise.
Sheesh. It's a forum for mid sized SUVs. Welcome to the land of trolls and honey.
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Yeah, you were just trolling all this time...if you say so.
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12-31-2017, 10:14 AM
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#69
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern California
Age: 37
Posts: 1,471
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern California
Age: 37
Posts: 1,471
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Can I at least have the last word?
After all, if you ain't first, you're last
-Ricky Bobby
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The 4Reak Show: 1995 4Runner, 3.4 swapped, manual conversion, supercharged & 7th injected, Eaton TrueTrac in rear, poly bushings F&R, lots of other outrageous add ons...
Wife's: 2016 Trail Premium, bone stock until she joins T4R.org one day...
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12-31-2017, 12:39 PM
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#70
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 7,712
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSD_42
I know what's in it and I don't like it because it increases the federal debt by $1.5 - $2 Trillion.
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Exactly. The hypocrisy of a GOP who has been complaining (and complaining a lot) about the deficit to do this is astounding. And to believe that the "trickle down" effect is somehow going to be anywhere near that number? It takes a lot of thought, work and skill to lower taxes through cutting of the fat. Any mindless idiot can lower taxes by increasing debt. And yes, I have an issue with that type of move no matter which side makes it. The amount here as well as the distribution is what is so mind blowing to me.
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Last edited by Hepar; 12-31-2017 at 01:33 PM.
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12-31-2017, 01:34 PM
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#71
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: MS
Posts: 2,513
Real Name: Mark
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: MS
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I doubt that any of you were around for the Carter years or the Reagan years
I was young then starting out in life, guess what, everyone survived, I worked hard, saved some money, invested some money, retired 2016 @ 59 yrs. old.
Worked around the world, The USA is still the best place to live, our standard of living is by far better than most.
You guy's need to chill out the sky is not falling, the armageddon is not going to happen, Life is what you make it!!!
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12-31-2017, 02:29 PM
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#72
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
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Elite Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern USA
Posts: 18,771
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I see a lot of fortune tellers here....
Has the dollar gone down in value since the tax plan approval? Has stocks gone down?
Is this the first time we used borrowed money?
Was the former tax plan not running on borrowed money as well...and made our economy WORST? Wasn’t the former tax plan made it prohibitive for business to invest in USA? Why did Apple store all their cash overseas?
Why not wait and see before we condemn it to hell?
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12-31-2017, 02:40 PM
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#73
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Park Ridge, Illinois
Posts: 389
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Park Ridge, Illinois
Posts: 389
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The way I understood it, is the GOP rank-and-file knew it was going to increase the deficit, but they had a one-in-twenty year chance to decrease the corporate tax rate to match what other countries have.
Somebody is going to have to clean up the mess, but hey, every other president fudges over the future, why not Trump join the list?
They didn't get rid of the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax), or as I call it, the stay-at-home mom tax.
Our taxes will probably go up.
What matters with your 401-k isn't how much it is worth right now, its when you go to use it that matters. Or to use the words of a co-worker in 2007, "My 401k became a 201k."
Last edited by ic0517; 12-31-2017 at 02:41 PM.
Reason: cuss -> Fudge
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12-31-2017, 03:37 PM
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#74
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Elite Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 7,712
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Elite Member
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Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai
I see a lot of fortune tellers here....
Has the dollar gone down in value since the tax plan approval? Has stocks gone down?
Is this the first time we used borrowed money?
Was the former tax plan not running on borrowed money as well...and made our economy WORST? Wasn’t the former tax plan made it prohibitive for business to invest in USA? Why did Apple store all their cash overseas?
Why not wait and see before we condemn it to hell?
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Yeah, you're right. If only we had several past similar decisions to base it on...
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2001 4Runner 4WD Sport Package, Millennium silver, 110,000 miles, 2nd gen TRD Supercharger, Toytec BOSS coilovers, 890 OME rear springs, Bilstein 5125 rear shocks, custom Baldlands front bumper, PIAA 520 driving lights and fogs, 4x Innovation Sliders (welded on!), 18" Magnaflow muffler, JDM corners, 65" Thule bars, 20% tint, 16x8 FJ80 wheels on 265/75-16 Duratracs, Husky mats w/ cargo, rear diff breather mod, 3M clear bra, remote start, Pioneer AVIC-8200NEX
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12-31-2017, 04:05 PM
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#75
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: West of SI
Posts: 1,144
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: West of SI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai
I see a lot of fortune tellers here....
Has the dollar gone down in value since the tax plan approval? Has stocks gone down?
Is this the first time we used borrowed money?
Was the former tax plan not running on borrowed money as well...and made our economy WORST? Wasn’t the former tax plan made it prohibitive for business to invest in USA? Why did Apple store all their cash overseas?
Why not wait and see before we condemn it to hell?
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If you think this was “worst”....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YsDmPEeurfA
....... then it should be interesting when we experience the new level of “worst” that’s coming.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" - Winston Churchill
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