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Old 04-04-2019, 09:41 PM #1
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Amazing difference between 4runner forum and Jeep JL forum.

It is such an amazing difference between this forum and the JL Wrangler forum. I had a 2 door Jeep JK and had a lot of fun with it, so I toy with the idea of getting another Wrangler someday. Iím on my second 4runner and still loving it, so who knows. But anyway....I have the JL Wrangler app on my iPhone and scroll through the JL forum from time to time to keep up to date on whatís going on with the new Jeeps. Itís amazing to see, when scrolling through the JL Stock tech forum, that at least 80% of the posts are about problems that people are having with their JLs. And a lot of the problems are pretty significant. Itís unbelievable!!!! You just donít see that on the 4runner forum. Rarely do I read posts about issues people are having, and when I do itís usually something that was caused by a poorly installed modification. The vast majority of posts here are about mods or someoneís build, new products, someoneís new off road adventure, speculation on the 6th gen, wheels, tires, suspension upgrades, etc, etc, etc......

Once in a while there is a complaint about Entune being lame or a complaint about the lack of Apple CarPlay. Occasionally I see a complaint about a little vibration from the tires....something a good balancing takes care of. People complain of a laggy throttle....something the sprint booster or pedal commander takes care of. People like to ***** about less than stellar gas mileage....although a lot of those people have a 3Ē lift, massive tires, steel bumpers, etc.....But for the most part and for the vast majority of people, these 4runners are pretty bulletproof!

Try this out.....just scroll through several pages of this forum just noting the topics of the threads.....then jump over to the JL Wrangler forum and scroll through a few pages of that forum, noting the topics.....itíll blow your mind. I just donít know if Iíd be able to handle going back to a Wrangler after having owned a 4runner.


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Old 04-04-2019, 09:52 PM #2
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I just had my rear main seal replaced at 52k miles. Bought this thing new July 2 2017 and chose this over a Jeep. Knowing the rear main seal went out, Iíd still buy it again. Quality vehicle. I like the JLs a lot and wheel with JKs and JLs. But 99% of the time I need reliability and comfort.


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Old 04-04-2019, 10:20 PM #3
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I once went on a JL forum too. I left after reading one thread. The guy accused Baja designs to be bad for JLs because he tried to wire the Baja power harness with a switch to one of the auxiliary switches that comes with a JL. Meaning he wired an in-line switch to another switch. He left the switch always on, hidden under the hood, and claimed it a bad design.

Thread for reference:

Baja Designs are Not JL Rubicon Friendly | 2018+ Jeep Wrangler Forums (JL / JLU) - Rubicon, Sahara, Sport, Unlimited - JLwranglerforums.com
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:46 PM #4
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I have always been a Toyota guy and the wife loves Hondas. All the oil stains on my pavers were caused by Jeeps. Her Mom and Dad have Jeeps! In-laws!
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:53 PM #5
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Not to defend Jeep, but I just read that Jeep sold 240,000 Wranglers in 2018 verses around 65,000 or so 4runners so there should be more problems. It also seems like the most disgruntled owners cry on the forums the most.
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:17 PM #6
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I was an auto technician at an independent repair shop for 11 yrs. Saw a lot of older cars mostly, being an independent shop vs a dealership. Anyhow, bottom line is this: EVERYTHING breaks down. It's a machine. But it's the frequency and severity TO WHICH it breaks down that sets Toyota/Honda apart. I've fixed every major make under the sun. And done about every repair on every make as well such as head gaskets, engine replacements, clutches, diagnostics, you name a major manufacturer and a repair title and I've probably done it.

That all being said, my experience was that the American cars had a significantly higher failure rate, AND those repairs sucked balls to do. Whereas a Japanese car would fail let's say 33% as infrequent and also had a much easier way to fix them. So not only are they failing less, but when they do it isn't as detrimental because of how they are built compared to other brands.
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:22 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner View Post
Not to defend Jeep, but I just read that Jeep sold 240,000 Wranglers in 2018 verses around 65,000 or so 4runners so there should be more problems. It also seems like the most disgruntled owners cry on the forums the most.
Not sure where you are making up your numbers from but Toyota sold 140,000 4Runners in 2018 according to sales figures. While that is 100,000 less than the Jeep Wranglers there is no question that FCA has poor quality vehicles. When it comes to reliability and quality awards/reports Toyota consistently rates at the top whereas FCA including Dodge & Jeep consistently rate at the bottom. So sure they didn't sell as many as the Jeep Wranglers did but I'm not surprised why so many people complain about Jeep products.
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:23 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner View Post
Not to defend Jeep, but I just read that Jeep sold 240,000 Wranglers in 2018 verses around 65,000 or so 4runners so there should be more problems. It also seems like the most disgruntled owners cry on the forums the most.
Actually, 2018 was a record year for the 4Runner at 140,000.
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Old 04-04-2019, 11:45 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_4x4Runner View Post
Not to defend Jeep, but I just read that Jeep sold 240,000 Wranglers in 2018 verses around 65,000 or so 4runners so there should be more problems. It also seems like the most disgruntled owners cry on the forums the most.


I donít agree with your logic. Your numbers are off for starters as Toyota sold 139,694 4runners in 2018. Still a lot less than Jeep sold Wranglers but that is irrelevant. Itís the PERCENTAGE of people that seem to be having problems. My point was that about 80% of people posting on the JL forum seem to have some type of problem or quality issue whereas the percentage of 4runner owners with problems or quality issues is DRAMATICALLY lower. If your argument is that itís the people with problems that are most likely to post on forums, then that would apply to the 4runner forums as well. Yet, as I stated, the percentage of owners posting with serious issues is dramatically lower.

The Wrangler is a cool vehicle. Nothing beats popping the top and doors and driving down the beach in the summer. I just canít believe that the Wrangler has been in production all these years yet still suffers from such poor quality. Youíd think that a high volume, brand icon cash cow like the Wrangler would deserve better.


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Old 04-04-2019, 11:57 PM #10
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A lot of threads like this are started by trolls from other forums laughing at fanboy responses. Just saying....

I own both.

For the money spent a JL is superior in every category vs. the 4R with the exception of proven relatability. JL hasn't been out long enough to make a fair comparison.

I get that Toyota is milking their history of a proven platform and dragging their feet to upgrade a significant portion of their offered vehicles and it's still paying off. Numbers of 4Rs sold is still strong so why not?

Personally I love Toyota (owned 4). My wife owns a loaded 4 door JL Rubi. That said the JL is hands down better than a 4R. Not even a fair fight in my opinion. Now I'd pick a 4R over a JK any day but the JL is just that much better than everything else.

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Old 04-05-2019, 12:09 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRunner10 View Post
A lot of threads like this are started by trolls from other forums laughing at fanboy responses. Just saying....

I own both.

For the money spent a JL is superior in every category vs. the 4R with the exception of proven reliability. JL hasn't been out long enough to make a fair comparison.

I get that Toyota is milking their history of a proven platform and dragging their feet to upgrade a significant portion of their offered vehicles and it's still paying off. Numbers of 4Rs sold is still strong so why not?

I'm a pretty big Toyota fan (owned 4), and my wife owns a loaded 4 door JL Rubi. Make no mistake, the JL is hands down better than a 4R. Not even a fair fight in my opinion.

I do not own either vehicle. Im currently active on both forums and Im test driving both to make a purchase. If you are strictly talking about tech or off road capabilities the Jeep is a superior vehicle. The on road manners, noise volume and reliability are hands down in favor of the 4runner...

I am NOT a Jeep hater as I've owned numerous Jeeps but lets look at some common and prevalent problems with the new Jeep....

-Frame welding issues (pitting)
-Frame rusting issues
-Death Wobble on a new level
-Steering wandering - Requires $1500 in parts to fix. I test drove one and my stress was through the roof with the wandering...and no it isnt just a "jeep thing". I've had numerous series of Jeeps and none of them, even the 70s models, were this bad. 200+ page of angry Jeep owners so it isnt a small issue.
-Steering lock up
-Excessive steering play
-Massive infotainment system issues
-Jeeps "dying" on the side of the road due to electrical issues
-Rain rail issues - Open the door and get soaked
-Hard top noise/whistling issues
-Back window defrost failure
-Massive amounts of cracked front wind shields

And again these are common issues....I will take a 4runner any day of the week after test driving and spending significant time on the JL forums "tech sections". The tech section is an absolute blood bath and Im sure the "Jeep cares" employees are on the verge of a mental breakdown. I've never seen a new generation of a vehicle have so many issues - No thanks, even if it is better off road and has more tech.

I literally have no stake in this game and the 4runner is better in all categories that matter to ME.

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Old 04-05-2019, 12:27 AM #12
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:41 AM #13
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This is the reason why I don't own Jeeps anymore. Every single one that I have owned in the past (7), gave me issues, some with major issues that had to be purchased back by the manufacturer under the Lemon Law.

That said, the Ram Power Wagon we had was a fantastic vehicle and gave us many enjoyably memories and experiences. I would certainly own another Power Wagon.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:43 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Walker View Post
I do not own either vehicle. Im currently active on both forums and Im test driving both to make a purchase. If you are strictly talking about tech or off road capabilities the Jeep is a superior vehicle. The on road manners, noise volume and reliability are hands down in favor of the 4runner...

I am NOT a Jeep hater as I've owned numerous Jeeps but lets look at some common and prevalent problems with the new Jeep....

-Frame welding issues (pitting)
-Frame rusting issues
-Death Wobble on a new level
-Steering wandering - Requires $1500 in parts to fix. I test drove one and my stress was through the roof with the wandering...and no it isnt just a "jeep thing". I've had numerous series of Jeeps and none of them, even the 70s models, were this bad. 200+ page of angry Jeep owners so it isnt a small issue.
-Steering lock up
-Excessive steering play
-Massive infotainment system issues
-Jeeps "dying" on the side of the road due to electrical issues
-Rain rail issues - Open the door and get soaked
-Hard top noise/whistling issues
-Back window defrost failure
-Massive amounts of cracked front wind shields

And again these are common issues....I will take a 4runner any day of the week after test driving and spending significant time on the JL forums "tech sections". The tech section is an absolute blood bath and Im sure the "Jeep cares" employees are on the verge of a mental breakdown. I've never seen a new generation of a vehicle have so many issues - No thanks, even if it is better off road and has more tech.

I literally have no stake in this game and the 4runner is better in all categories that matter to ME.
For someone who has no stake in the game and is actively trying to decide which to buy, you seem like your mind is strongly made up already, lol. I see nothing gained from arguing this with you. Your opinion, your money, enjoy the 4R
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:43 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsoxx1918 View Post
I donít agree with your logic. Your numbers are off for starters as Toyota sold 139,694 4runners in 2018. Still a lot less than Jeep sold Wranglers but that is irrelevant. Itís the PERCENTAGE of people that seem to be having problems. My point was that about 80% of people posting on the JL forum seem to have some type of problem or quality issue whereas the percentage of 4runner owners with problems or quality issues is DRAMATICALLY lower. If your argument is that itís the people with problems that are most likely to post on forums, then that would apply to the 4runner forums as well. Yet, as I stated, the percentage of owners posting with serious issues is dramatically lower.

The Wrangler is a cool vehicle. Nothing beats popping the top and doors and driving down the beach in the summer. I just canít believe that the Wrangler has been in production all these years yet still suffers from such poor quality. Youíd think that a high volume, brand icon cash cow like the Wrangler would deserve better.


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You can add me to the list of 4runner owners that had problems. Toyota just replaced my xreas suspension. $3350 total. Luckily I had the extended warranty.
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