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Old 01-15-2020, 03:00 PM #16
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Originally Posted by mesooohoppy View Post
wow, ive only seen an old school press like that a handful of times. yours doesnt have the standard 7/8"-14 die thread, because its so old, correct? i love seeing old presses still up and running.
This Herter's uses standard RCBS dies.
I had to get an adapter for the case holder.

I was mainly doing tracers because i got a couple big bags of mil surplus pulls. 1999 (just the bullet, not the built cartrige)
Its really amazing what happens when you shoot...that you dont see.
When a bullet strikes something hard, stuff flies all over the place.

And the .357 Max because i couldn't find it. That Max is a pain to reload, resize die was getting so much friction, straight up pera-stuck a case, trashed the die.
Case-slick turned into case-stick over the years i guess.
I need to find some new high-tech case-slick.


...i remember when you could not get .22 to save your life, back after that one scare.
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Old 01-15-2020, 03:26 PM #17
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Originally Posted by BackOff View Post
This Herter's uses standard RCBS dies.
I had to get an adapter for the case holder.

I was mainly doing tracers because i got a couple big bags of mil surplus pulls. 1999 (just the bullet, not the built cartrige)
Its really amazing what happens when you shoot...that you dont see.
When a bullet strikes something hard, stuff flies all over the place.

And the .357 Max because i couldn't find it. That Max is a pain to reload, resize die was getting so much friction, straight up pera-stuck a case, trashed the die.
Case-slick turned into case-stick over the years i guess.
I need to find some new high-tech case-slick.


...i remember when you could not get .22 to save your life, back after that one scare.
interesting. i have heard about older presses needing an adapter for the new-er style shell holders as well. ive only seen one instance where a press was so old, it didnt use the standard die thread and an adapter had to be made.

the 357 max looks like a straight wall cartridge. were you using a carbide die? if not, that may have been your problem. ive read a bunch online that a lot of people recommend carbide dies for handgun specific calibers to aid with sizing. i use the hornady wax because it wont dent bottle neck cases like the alcohol based solvent lubes do (if you apply too much). the downside to the wax is i cant just throw everything in a bag and tumble in the lube. i have to hand lube each case.

id love to try tracers one day but i hear they are hard on the throat of the barrel. unfortunately i dont have an area that i feel comfortable shooting tracers. one day though!
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:46 PM #18
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I agree, it is a labor of love.

Donít get me wrong, itís a fantastic hobby. My lack of enthusiasm has nothing to do with a lack of experience or knowledge. I understand all aspects of the process quite well.

For most all real world applications less competitive shootingÖ factory match is more than adequate as most still shoot under 1 MOA.

PlusÖ itís not like I wasnít getting the desired result. I just donít find it to be a good use of my time anymore.
Good shoot'n!
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:53 PM #19
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Originally Posted by mesooohoppy View Post
i started reloading to save money, but then i became addicted to getting group sizes down. that is where the enjoyment starts to shine.
That's how it started with me too. I thought I could shoot more without spending any more money.
But there's always a need for a new gadget for the reloading bench, another powder to try, another bullet brand/weight to try.............
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:12 PM #20
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But there's always a need for a new gadget for the reloading bench, another powder to try, another bullet brand/weight to try.............
Isn't that the truth... I ended up with multiple competition seating dies for the same cartridge due to how/where the seating stem engages the ogive.

The closer you get it to the ogive, the more consistent the result.



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Old 01-15-2020, 07:58 PM #21
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Isn't that the truth... I ended up with multiple competition seating dies for the same cartridge due to how/where the seating stem engages the ogive.

The closer you get it to the ogive, the more consistent the result.
i have the hornady match for 223 (since i basically only load hornady rifle projectiles) and hoooooly crap is it nice. Im getting anywhere from .004-.010 variance in COAL without any ogive trimming or sorting (something i will not do for the sake of time).

the problem is i have the american series dies for my 308. not only is the sizing die terribly hard to get to release the newly sized 308, im getting a huge variance in COAL. the micrometer on the top of the match dies really are something. sooooo, i guess that means match dies for every rifle caliber i need from here on out....
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:12 AM #22
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I'm still learning, and have a Forster Co-Ax setup. I've got 9mm down, building 124gn subsonics for the SBR-AR with suppressor. I've started some work on .30-06 but haven't gotten any rounds past sizing yet. Eventually I'll be loading .280Rem for my custom Win70 wearing a Krieger 5R heavy sporter. Don't have much time for one armed workouts when you're working 6 days a week.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:00 PM #23
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Originally Posted by Friggin Idiot View Post
I'm still learning, and have a Forster Co-Ax setup. I've got 9mm down, building 124gn subsonics for the SBR-AR with suppressor. I've started some work on .30-06 but haven't gotten any rounds past sizing yet. Eventually I'll be loading .280Rem for my custom Win70 wearing a Krieger 5R heavy sporter. Don't have much time for one armed workouts when you're working 6 days a week.
awesome, since the ar9s dont have a tilting/unlocking barrel, you dont need a booster, correct?

what projectiles and powder are you using for your 9mm subs? hopefully later this year i can get all my stuff together and get a trust setup so i can start the wonderful world of collecting tax stamps.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:19 PM #24
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I run an old rock chucker single stage. for quality, not volume. mostly .30-06 and 300wm. but would like to get a progressive or turret for some pistol output. its been a few years since I loaded though. did some house remodeling, and that area got turned into storage..ish...




as has been mentioned, I dont really load cheaper than I can buy. but that's because im loading much better rounds.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:03 PM #25
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I run an old rock chucker single stage. for quality, not volume. mostly .30-06 and 300wm. but would like to get a progressive or turret for some pistol output. its been a few years since I loaded though. did some house remodeling, and that area got turned into storage..ish...




as has been mentioned, I dont really load cheaper than I can buy. but that's because im loading much better rounds.
with the right setup you can still load match grade rifle rounds on a progressive. its all just how you are setup. i buy hornady 62gr boat tail hollow points for my general 223/556 load. sure its probably a little overkill for general training rounds, but i believe its only a cent more per round than the standard 62gr projectile hornady makes. i have been able to get a 0.52 moa grouping at 100 yds with a 5 shot group with this projectile and load. if i had more time with this rifle (its my shooting partners) and a better shooting setup i could likely get the group to shrink even more. my favorite part about this round is only the projectile and primers i use are considered 'match grade'. i use CFE 223 powder and 1x fired LC cases, which are generally not mentioned when trying to make match 223 rounds.

that is the beautiful thing about reloading. you can load up some cheap plinking rounds for cheaper than what you can buy factory, or you can splurge a little more for nicer projectiles, etc. and still come out around even or possibly a little more than factory, but you are getting a lot better of a round overall (plus the pride of you making it). once you figure out a load you're basically set until you want to try another powder or projectile.

on another note, my ar10 build is almost done, just waiting on the barrel (warranty). i have some 168gr hornady ELDs waiting to be loaded up. i will be sure to post my results once i get the build up and running!
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Old 01-16-2020, 02:43 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesooohoppy View Post
awesome, since the ar9s dont have a tilting/unlocking barrel, you dont need a booster, correct?

what projectiles and powder are you using for your 9mm subs? hopefully later this year i can get all my stuff together and get a trust setup so i can start the wonderful world of collecting tax stamps.
I built an SBR lower out of Spikes & LaRue parts. One upper is CMMG's RDB system with the MeanMag conversion for regular P-mags. No booster required so I put a 3-lug on it. Makes it easier to swap between the CMMG upper and the Black Rifle Arms 300BLK piston upper. Can is Rugged Obsidian45 with 9mm end cap.

X-treme Bullets 124gr FP on top of 4.0-4.2gr Win AutoComp. Velocities from 8" barrel are 860-980fps for the range. I'm not picky about the exact velocity since staying subsonic. 4.3gr is still subsonic, but definitely louder than 4.2 or less even with the can.
I was worried about using such a light bullet as a subsonic, but a buddy of mine says the 124's tend to work best. He's had lots of feeding & cycling issues trying to get a load for his 147's. Somewhere I have a bunch of 161's yet to play with because I can't find any data for anything close to that heavy.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:41 PM #27
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Originally Posted by Friggin Idiot View Post
I built an SBR lower out of Spikes & LaRue parts. One upper is CMMG's RDB system with the MeanMag conversion for regular P-mags. No booster required so I put a 3-lug on it. Makes it easier to swap between the CMMG upper and the Black Rifle Arms 300BLK piston upper. Can is Rugged Obsidian45 with 9mm end cap.

X-treme Bullets 124gr FP on top of 4.0-4.2gr Win AutoComp. Velocities from 8" barrel are 860-980fps for the range. I'm not picky about the exact velocity since staying subsonic. 4.3gr is still subsonic, but definitely louder than 4.2 or less even with the can.
I was worried about using such a light bullet as a subsonic, but a buddy of mine says the 124's tend to work best. He's had lots of feeding & cycling issues trying to get a load for his 147's. Somewhere I have a bunch of 161's yet to play with because I can't find any data for anything close to that heavy.
i hear that CMMG system is pretty good. it wouldnt surprise me if that type of design will be the future and common blowback we see everywhere will eventually be phased out. dont get me wrong, i freaking love my blowback ar9 and how soft it shoots, but hoooooooly crap does it get dirty. it doesnt help that im not the best with my cleaning regiment either. does your CMMG get dirty pretty quickly?

macon armory out of Georgia makes DI 45 upper kits with the same style BCG used in the CMMG system (the big difference being this is DI and the CMMG kit is a radial delayed blowback). so we will definitely be seeing more refined PCC bolt and gas systems and time goes on. isnt SHOT show next week? hell we may even see something then.

i have heard great things about the endo mags, although i like my PCC lowers to be glock fed as that is what i primarily shoot for my sidearm.

as for subsonic 9mm, the standard grain weight is usually always 147gr although i have seen some 124gr sub loads. i know subs can be finicky at times, so you just have to find out what works with you. you also have an 8" barrel, which will add a little velocity as most 9mm stuff isnt longer than 5" or 5.5". im sure if you google it, you can find 160/161 load data. its not too far off of 147 gr, so the powder charge will be less, but not by a whole lot.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:13 AM #28
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i hear that CMMG system is pretty good. it wouldnt surprise me if that type of design will be the future and common blowback we see everywhere will eventually be phased out. dont get me wrong, i freaking love my blowback ar9 and how soft it shoots, but hoooooooly crap does it get dirty. it doesnt help that im not the best with my cleaning regiment either. does your CMMG get dirty pretty quickly?

macon armory out of Georgia makes DI 45 upper kits with the same style BCG used in the CMMG system (the big difference being this is DI and the CMMG kit is a radial delayed blowback). so we will definitely be seeing more refined PCC bolt and gas systems and time goes on. isnt SHOT show next week? hell we may even see something then.

i have heard great things about the endo mags, although i like my PCC lowers to be glock fed as that is what i primarily shoot for my sidearm.

as for subsonic 9mm, the standard grain weight is usually always 147gr although i have seen some 124gr sub loads. i know subs can be finicky at times, so you just have to find out what works with you. you also have an 8" barrel, which will add a little velocity as most 9mm stuff isnt longer than 5" or 5.5". im sure if you google it, you can find 160/161 load data. its not too far off of 147 gr, so the powder charge will be less, but not by a whole lot.
You think the blowback AR9 runs smooth, wait until you try the RDB. Delayed blowback AND lighter reciprocating bolt group means a softer shoot and lighter weight weapon! And I'm not just thinking it's lighter with 8" less barrel either. I have a also Rock River AR9 which is a hefty gun, before I started changing things to shoot even smoother. Everything I've seen shows the CMMG to run cleaner too as the powder has more time to burn before the chamber is unlocked. The dwell doesn't seem significant, but it's enough. The RR AR9 has more than occasionally spit out brass that was scorched, though not as badly after adding the Wolf XP spring and Heavy Q.

The EndoMag has been running great, just make sure they send you the right version, it's different for CMMG RDB vs blowback designs. I'm not a Glock-guy, so the only thing I have that runs those is the KelTec Sub2000. I only picked it for those to get the 33rd capacity.

I've looked into AR45's, most specifically the Bazooka Bros that uses the grease gun mags. Then I keep remembering about that 2lb weight of a bolt group on the Colt SMG design (and my RR AR9), and can't imagine it being enough help on the 45ACP. A DI 45 sounds interesting, but 45 is already a pretty dirty round. Adding gas back into the BCG doesn't like something I want to clean on a regular basis. There's a reason I prefer piston guns, and it's because I don't have to spend so much time getting them clean!

As for SHOT show and the up and coming, I agree that PCC is an up and coming. When Ruger dropped the RC9 I was surprised, though not too much given the discontinued Marlin Camp Carbine it seems to be replacing. I think there's always going to be a PCC need, the difference is how refined the carbine will be. Obviously something purpose designed would be best, but there are lots of those which only come out ok because of the desired price point. The Beretta Cx4 Storm never did well, though it was a plastic thing with a horrible trigger. The KelTec is better, but gets even more so when you dump a bunch of M-Carbo parts into it. The short of it though is that pistol calibers are fun and cheap, but will never match the capability of a rifle round. I do find it slightly odd that the levers are coming back too as seen with the new Marlin 336 Dark Series. Although to be competitive the levers are really going to have to adapt to the newer more powerful rounds. The new .350 Legend seems like a pretty viable replacement for the .357Mag. Though they've heralded the .30-30 as dead how many times over now?

I've searched Google before for 161 load data and come up blank. I just removed the 9mm tag from it, I'm seeing much different results. Apparently it's supposed to be more for 38Spl/357Mag than 9mm. Good thing I have a set of dies, brass, and a rifle for those too!
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:16 AM #29
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I run dual Dillon 650's for both pistol and rifle calibers with a Co-Ax for precision long distance stuff.

Calibers:
9mm (124 plinking, 124 SD, 147 Subs, 165 subs)
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:55 PM #30
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I run dual Dillon 650's for both pistol and rifle calibers with a Co-Ax for precision long distance stuff.

Calibers:
9mm (124 plinking, 124 SD, 147 Subs, 165 subs)
38sp/357 Mag
223 (bolt and AR)
223AI (bolt)
300blk
308 (Subs and plinking)
6.5 Creedmoor
7 SAUM
awesome! you seem to really have committed!

how do you like that annealze (sp?) annealer? i need to buy one and i dont want to shell out 500 bones for a giraud if i dont need too.
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