National gas tax hike talk is back, or "Tax-by-mile" driven. - Page 3 - Toyota 4Runner Forum

Ogre75 · 01-28-2021, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by RandyDaytona

They already did. That awesome new tax "reform" that benefitted corporations and rich people has me paying another $2-3k in taxes every year.

And I'm not wealthy by any stretch.

Taxes serve a purpose. But what's screwed up is who ends up paying the bulk of them. A hint: it's NOT the people who can afford to make big campaign contributions.

And speaking of those kinds of people...

In a former lifetime, I used to work immigration violations. A border "wall" stopping illegal immigration is a promise almost as empty as shampoo that miraculously grows hair on bald men, or an email from an attorney in Nigeria who can make you rich if you help him out with a "small processing fee ." 🙄.

It's a promise used by xenophobic politicians to folks who don't know any better.

Illegal immigration will continue as long as there are jobs for the illegals. And there will always be jobs when there are little or no consequences for the people who pay them. Why are there no consequences, you ask?

Excellent question. Because the CEO's, business owners, and wealthy stockholders make big campaign donations. And those they contribute money to end up putting political weight on the agencies charged with enforcing the law.

The way it used to work (and it's similar now, but the agency names and some of the terminology are different) was simple. If too many illegals start crossing and maybe there are a few high-profile crimes in the news, the political talking heads will tell us all that they're going to "get tough" on illegals and will tell the agencies to start hitting the meat plants, factories, etc. Then, when we started taking away their labor (even though it was always temporary), the companies start whining and the reins are pulled back.

I actually saw this happen: the INS investigations office in Bloomington, MN was in a big building with multiple tenants (not the federal building). There was a company contracted by building management to do the cleaning at night. It usually ended up that some of their employees were illegal. When the agency was told to "get tough," they'd round up people from their own building's cleaning crew. Otherwise, they let them be. It wasn't the law that dictated whether or not the cleaning guy could stay and work. It was politics. And while the owner of the cleaning company was probably not the kind of guy to have any influence, you can imagine the kinds of influence that DID come into play when you have politically-induced selective enforcement of the law (or don't) across the entire country.

So the only consequences were for the illegals, themselves. They got sent back, but were not criminally prosecuted or even "deported," per se. They were "Voluntarily Returned." By agreeing to go home on Uncle Sam's dime, they avoided criminal liability.

And they were back inside a month, anyway. If you want to make an illegal immigrant's day, arrest him inside the Hormel meat plant where he's working - in Minnesota, and in February - and tell him he's getting a free plane ride back to Mexico or Central America. A little vacation in the sun and, once he can feel his toes again, he's back.

So the entire "build a wall" campaign promise was probably the dumbest one I've seen in my lifetime.

I've always said that the USA should open borders to anyone, just do not allow any form of govt assistance or voting rights to them until they go through the citizenship process. Enforce ID's, if they are not forced to work under the table, companies can't get rich by artifically pushing wages down for citizens. It creates the even playing field sought after by political gasbags.

toyoman25 · 01-28-2021, 10:59 AM

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Originally Posted by TrailRunnin14

Just going to throw this out there.....the destruction of America began on January 20 2021.

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mscot · 01-28-2021, 01:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Ogre75

I've always said that the USA should open borders to anyone, just do not allow any form of govt assistance or voting rights to them until they go through the citizenship process. Enforce ID's, if they are not forced to work under the table, companies can't get rich by artifically pushing wages down for citizens. It creates the even playing field sought after by political gasbags.

This is actually how it used to be, and it worked fine. Mexican citizens around boarder states would come into the US and sell goods or work for the day or week then go back across to their families. It wasn't a big deal. Everyone benefitted.
Then a politician, can't remember his name - I'm recalling all this from a podcast, saw an opportunity to make immigration a political issue sometime in the 80s and now here we are. People whose lives are not affected in the least think this is a huge issue. It's not. The amount of illegal immigration hasn't really fluctuated (1% increase in terms of % of population in 20 years). What has happened is that the people that get in are terrified to leave b/c they may never get back so you only have an ingress when before it was a flow back and forth, which naturally drives up the percentage.
But yeah, lets spend billons on a wall b/c Mexicans don't have ladders and shovels.

BlackCloud · 01-29-2021, 03:25 PM

How would they track miles driven to tax you? Would they have an IRS agent look at your car every year or would this be based on the honor system, like every other utopian fallacy? No way should the fed track our actual vehicles. That would mean they could find us at any given moment.

ElectroBoy · 01-29-2021, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCloud

How would they track miles driven to tax you? Would they have an IRS agent look at your car every year or would this be based on the honor system, like every other utopian fallacy? No way should the fed track our actual vehicles. That would mean they could find us at any given moment.

Voluntary self reporting. My insurance company already sends out a questionnaire each year for the amount of miles driven and odometer reading. I suppose you could fudge your numbers and keep track of it every year to keep your story believable. But who knows what info is really available to authorities via your on-star or other internet connected car services.

Strykar · 01-29-2021, 08:56 PM

Where I live I noticed a gas tax sticker per gallon on the pump itself. I never had seen one before, but never really looked either.

thennen · 01-29-2021, 10:37 PM

I don’t think I’ll ever understand why someone would be for paying additional taxes. They get enough from us as it is. Why always more, more, more? At least we got a bit of a break on income taxes for a few years. As for tax by mile, I think that’s because electric cars don’t use fuel. Gotta tax them somehow, right? Maybe tax electricity once there are enough EVs.

bear1998 · 01-29-2021, 11:27 PM

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Originally Posted by thennen

I don’t think I’ll ever understand why someone would be for paying additional taxes. They get enough from us as it is. Why always more, more, more? At least we got a bit of a break on income taxes for a few years. As for tax by mile, I think that’s because electric cars don’t use fuel. Gotta tax them somehow, right? Maybe tax electricity once there are enough EVs.

Its called...THE FLEECING OF AMERICA

Deuxdiesel · 01-30-2021, 08:09 AM

Fleecing for sure- corporate tax breaks, stupid walls, bloated military.

JPGood · 01-30-2021, 08:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Jubsz

Can there be some kind of a rebate for driving an older vehicle? Reason being that you are not contributing to the environmental cost of putting one in a junk yard and creating a new one. I think the value of that is rarely, if ever, taken into consideration.

Sure, auto manufacturers and the supply chain upstream do not benefit but if the cause is truly for the environment, why can't we attack from another angle?

I think sometime in the past they suggested that the Government would buy older cars to force people to buy new and improved milage versions.

The per mile tax was opposed buy the "greenies" when it was proposed before because they bought their rechargeable vehicles to avoid the gas tax and thought it was unfair that they be taxed.

bear1998 · 01-30-2021, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deuxdiesel

Fleecing for sure- corporate tax breaks, stupid walls, bloated military.

Yea...lets pay Iran trillions instead of billions n of course....let the illegal immigrants do what they want....
Oh...DONT FORGET.......TAX TAX TAX....mark my words!!!
Remember when the previous liberal potus spents hundreds of millions on the solar energy that FAILED! Well...it was sold to chinese for less than what the TAX PAYERS. had invested in it.
Hope if you have any kids or other younger relations they pick up at least two more languages...

LandCruiser · 01-30-2021, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCloud

How would they track miles driven to tax you? Would they have an IRS agent look at your car every year or would this be based on the honor system, like every other utopian fallacy? No way should the fed track our actual vehicles. That would mean they could find us at any given moment.

Eventually a GPS tracker.

The Patriot Act already took whatever was left of our freedoms away.

Covid made it worse.

ElectroBoy · 01-30-2021, 05:54 PM

Unless you want to pay "user fees" everywhere you drive (toll roads), you're gonna get taxed. If the per gallon Fed tax is removed and replaced with a miles driven tax, that seems equitable. As long as it really goes to transportation improvements. We're way behind.

But what do you want to bet the states and counties will hop on board this taxation scheme too?

Jubsz · 01-31-2021, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPGood

I think sometime in the past they suggested that the Government would buy older cars to force people to buy new and improved milage versions.

The per mile tax was opposed buy the "greenies" when it was proposed before because they bought their rechargeable vehicles to avoid the gas tax and thought it was unfair that they be taxed.

Yes, Obama era cash for clunkers program. I forget if the # was 3k or 5k that they'd give for any vehicle. The problem with that program is that it drove up the prices of used cars, particularly at the bottom end of the spectrum. Something that was intended to be a good thing ended up hurting the most disadvantaged that needed transportation. $2,000 cars no longer existed for them because the gov't would pay $3,000 to see them off to the junkyard. Completely took the bottom end of the market out and drove up the price of other used vehicles because there was more competition to buy them.

Glad the greenies voted against a per mile tax... However, I do not think they will vote against it for the same reason/principle I want to vote against it. The gov't will just put in an exception for electric cars and the greenies will go along.

I was talking about the idea that keeping cars on the road longer prevents the resource utilization and emissions associated with the production of new vehicles. Exact opposite of cash for clunkers. Manufacturing vehicles creates a lot of emissions and uses natural resources. Part of the issue, and the biggest reason there is no admission that old cars can prevent environmental damage too, is that people do not want to hamper the auto manufacturers because of the productivity and number of jobs involved in that sector. The gov't is afraid to enact any policy that slows down the purchase of new autos. Cash for clunkers was meant to get old cars off the road and incentivize people to buy newer ones. Low interest rates and longer terms have allowed for the price of cars to go up and people to take on larger debt to buy them. Any question as to why auto manufacturers, lobbyists, and green energy people would agree to cash for clunkers? Look at who it hurt the most in the end, the most poor that need to buy sub $3k cars for transportation.... Somehow those people have largely concluded that the right answer is still more government. They're really good at enacting policy that enforces the exact outcome they're looking for and never has any adverse effects.

jross20 · 01-31-2021, 10:30 PM

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Originally Posted by momo.75

Take the politics somewhere else....

Normally I would agree...but this isn't really politics anymore.

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