Well, it looks like the Dems just solidified a change of power and the end of their jobs:

House sends health care bill to Obama's desk - Health care reform- msnbc.com

This is neither a pro/con argument in any way. But if you get a minute you might want to read up on the history of health care reform in Canada many years ago. It is a very very interesting story no matter what your viewpoint. It is one that could be read without really taking a side I think. I just read it in a book full of short stories last night and it was quite fascinating how the whole process worked. I guess I never realized how long ago it all took place up there. Interesting stuff. I am sure there are things that took place that you could apply here, and some that don't fit due to the time period.

The guy behind it was named Tommy Douglas and I believe he is Kiefer Sutherland's grandpa, and even in these very split times Canadian citizens still voted him the all-time greatest Canadian Citizen in a poll a few years ago. I thought that was quite amazing, especially for a guy who had such amazing potential to be a completely polarizing and divisive figure to half the nation. They still loved him and still do though.

Interesting if nothing else. Maybe there is something to be learned there and improved on. Or maybe not. I dunno. Just something that your post reminded me of.

I know quite a bit about Canadian Healthcare. I work in the healthcare industry in the US and work with a lot of people who visit other countries for work....they all report the same things. Our health care system is leaps and bounds above the others in technology and our wait times are minimal compared to others.

However, America seems to be misled by the media and those running our country.....everyone keeps throwing around the heart felt term "health care".....when in fact, health care is NOT what is being changed. The term that should be used is "health insurance"....however that doesnt tug at those heart strings as well...

lmao that some people think more IRS employees will reduce health care costs and improve care.

This is what it is all about....

WikiAnswers - How many employees in British health care system

One thing to recall is hat I never lauded the Canadian system. Merely said it wad an interestingly similar story that took place what a hundred years ago? Was just saying it was worth a read considering how differently things seemingly worked back then everywhere.

On a personal note, I have traveled the world, worked with many amazing medical professionals (99 % of them American), BUT my experiences over the past week have really made me start to question a lot of what I've been saying. I am sure somebody will step up, but it has been a hard pill to swallow.

I het he feeling that you are anti health reform and anti administration. It sounds like kind of a misunderstanding to me whe. You say the it's have assured their own unemployment and any said system would be a mess. Then it wouldn't make sense that this is actually what you want to happen and we aren't really doomed, but rather this was be failure that spelled their end so you'd actually end up getting what you want, just a ways down the road?

Just enjoying an interesting conversation, not trying to create badwill by any means.

I certainly hope that NO ONE in their right mind actually believes that Health Care will improve. The quality of care will go down. Anything our government touches (USPS, Public School System, etc.) goes down the tubes quickly and loses billions of dollars annually.

What I find wrong is that our government is planning on MASSSIVE cuts to Medicare (the system that our non-working elderly rely on for 80% of their health insurance coverage) to fund a group of able bodied persons who, for whatever reason, have chosen to not take health insurance or have a job that does not offer health insurance.

I guess the one thing I'm most hoping is that people will take the time to examine what the bill will actually do and the impact it will have on themselves, their family, friends, and others.

So many partisans on both sides just screaming at one another who can't name one thing the bill does and wouldn't know their from a hole in the ground.

First, no hard feelings at all. This is only the internet. I also realize that everyone has the right to their opinion.

Second, I do not want a complete change of power. I want a government that listens to it's people and ONLY intervenes when there is a problem. I do not want a group of power hungry politicians that have their hands in their friends pockets. I am not a Democrat or Republican.

What experiences are those? And what are you questioning?

Well, at least, unemployment will go down in this country with the creation of those jobs....

we need government to regulate, not control the insurance companies/health care, i know some of you would feel the so called "free market" would do a better job then the government, yeah right, look how that worked out for the banking industry, they kept handing out loans and making record profits all the while selling the American people down the river for a little more scratch, and what we don't have insurance companies doing the same thing with denial of coverage and the cherry picking they do?

i believe the government should provide the basic necessities of life, food,water,shelter,education,protections and health care, but only to a certain standard, if you want a nice shelter,prompt health care, get a frigging job and earn it, if your *****ing about long wait times go to school get a good job and buy supplemental.

there is a huge difference between traveling to other countries and living there,i am a citizen of the us and the uk, and have lived in both extensively,
every country complains and waves arms about perceived problems ,
truth of the matter is i would rather be down on my luck there then here,
as sure i may not have as much over there but it will be a robust level of
care, meaning that all the basics i listed above would be provided, and sure it may not be the best but it's something, right now i have been paying into the system my whole life and have never drawn from it, and it scares me to think that if i got hit by a car or became unable to take care of myself for any reason i'd be wwaayyy more screwed over here.

the financial arguments can go either way, it'll be cheaper becuase of larger pools and less emergency room visits or it'll be more expensive becuase of larger over head,blah blah blah, this isn't going to kill us, and should be included in the "right to life" part of our constitution, if you want to make the argument about money start going after the war budget and foreign aid money and other programs that are just sickeningly excessive and don't help Americans, and as loud as these people are about denial of health care they should be talking about illegals and trying to get them the f'out.

we are screwed becuase a million other things not becuase of doing whats right in the first place here, doing whats right for our fellow country men,citizens. we are screwed for way to many other things, nafta, spending $500 on toilet seats instead of armor for our troops, i mean wtf?!?!

i'm not a dem, i'm not a socialist even as much as i may sound like one, i believe in basic human rights and beyond that your on your own buddy, sure i'll pay for government housing but it should be a single cement shack with the basics,no more, sure i'll buy food stamps for people, but you must by only the major food groups and we the people deiced what that is, sure i'll pay for your health care but you may have to wait 6 months for that ACL or rotator cuff, beyond that, you want more get the hell out and get a job and buy it.....


we just need better use of the systems we have and get pretty much every single moron out of office on pretty much every level, what we really need is a citizen run government again with 1-2 year term limits like they did back in the day, as back then Congress was a bunch of farmers and also had real jobs they could only work in congress for so long before they had to return to
work or the fields, there should be no f**king such thing as career politicians,
making money off of politics is making money selling fellow Americans down the road, when elected into office the government should pay what ever your living wage was at your job before you became a elected official, and very strict ethic policies in place , no hand outs,kick backs, lobbyist dollars,ect ect ect, no other source of income other then your government paid job ...... yes i think politicians should have to sacrifice to serve our nation, they should have to sacrifice potential profitability just as our soldiers and people sacrifice their families,time,profitability and very lives protecting our boarders and interests abroad.


blah, i could go on forever, but the whole frigging thing is just sickening.

rant over and sorry for my screen puke, just had to get that out there...somewhere, lol

Why? Like you said, if you want good medical care, then get a freaking job...well, do you have one? Do you have health insurance? Why would you be screwed in a car accident over here???

If you're poor over here and have zero money, then i am sure that you will still get good care in our hospitals and ERs...maybe even better care than over "there."

Interesting rant, but i am not sure what exactly you said....

if i got in a bad car accident i would lose my job after while (can't employ someone who can't work anymore) and my health insurance would go along with that, so right there i'm screwed and let's say it took me 5 years to get over that or maybe more, i could have racked up 100K's of dollars by the end of it all and my level of living would be sub par to say the least, in short my life would be ruined, checks garnished, falling between the cracks as in you make to much but not enough but we still want the 40K you owe us for the e.r. visit.

over there you go to the e.r. they ask you about 5 questions none of which concern a job,insurance,or even an address they treat you and slap you on the back on the way out, no paper work or questions asked, i was only in the e.r. for 2 hours before i was treated and released for food poisoning in the u.k.

and it's not like our hospitals are going to start crumbling and that new state of the art machine isn't going to be at the hospital next time you go, America will always have the best doctors and equipment for the most part, and is it becuase we pay so much? uummmm....no, it's becuase of the American life style, and that's our #1 export, having been around the world a few times myself everyone wants to come here and live, big mac's, kick ass 4runners,big screen t.v.'s, this is the draw to come here and work not the pay, the u.k.'s exchange rate is far better then most of the places in the world yet you don't have a flood of people going there to work.
(keep in mind you can make a mint doing private practice over there, they still do house visits and everything if you have paid insurance)
i have the choice to either live and work here or there, i can make far more money over there then here but i'd never give up the lifestyle.

and as it stands right now i have a great job and great insurance, and i work for that and therefore deserve it, i just don't get where common sense has gone, really is what it is.


i guess what i was really trying to say is, this bill that passed is a good thing even if it's not very good at all, if that makes any sense, maybe we can clear this up when we clear of the 1,000's of other stupid things government does. or put better just cause the governments going to screw it up doesn't mean we shouldn't have it


who's up for the next big thing to be GOVERNMENT reform? not bigger or smaller just sharpened then focus on the size.

If you get into a car accident BEFORE losing your job due to the accident, then doesn't your health insurance cover until you reached a whatever limit that the insurance plan will pay?? I don't think that the health insurance can drop you simply because you lost your job while having an acute hospitalized illness. Maybe i am wrong or you have one crappy plan?? Now, if you lost your job and THEN get into an accident, then you can still get coverage within a period of time by paying a one-time premium to your previous insurance plan (COBRA coverage).

Trust me, if you have no money (jobs, etc.), then most (if not all) hospitals will write off what you owe. Sure, you will get plenty of bills and reminders, but they won't go after your car nor your house, unless you have a parking lot of cars. Yeah, you will be in a homeless shelter (not what this discussion is about) once the house bank kicks you out, BUT you can ALWAYS come to the ANY ER/hospital to get medical care, REGARDLESS OF YOUR FINANCIAL BACKING. Yes, you will be asked for financial information, but the ER/hospital WILL HAVE to treat you regardless...and treat you with the same level of care as the rich bas**** laying in the next room. And no, we do not treat the paying patients first and then the "self-pays." In fact, ER physicians and nurses at my hospitals do not even know what insurance (or pay status) of the patients that they treat.

The GSE's lost over 75 billion last year, paid by the govt. They've lost more than they ever made. all those profits were privatized. all the losses are socialized.

mortgage brokers used their risk models to ok the loans they made and then offloaded that risk on the GSEs.

meanwhile the Federal Reserve was keeping rates stupidly low to stave off recession.

then the whole ponzi scheme came crashing down and yet you think that represents a "free market". It's really disheartening.

sorry mate, but you're a dupe.