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-   -   Anyone went 4.88 yet? (https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/189432-anyone-went-4-88-yet.html)

JMG73072 02-18-2015 10:49 AM
Anyone went 4.88 yet?
 
Getting ready to re-gear and lock. I run 34's, has anyone went 4.88 vs 4.56 yet? I'm leaning towards the 4.88 with my bigger tires. Thoughs for those that went this way or those that stayed with 4.56? Looking to have ECGS do the assembly's.

marshal 02-18-2015 10:51 AM
don't fear the gear. do 4.88

Jetboy 02-18-2015 11:27 AM
I think it kinda depends on what your goal is. Do you want lower than stock gearing? 4.56 will be significantly lower gearing with 34's than stock. When your speedometer reads 75, your actual speed will only be 65mph. With 4.88 gears, when your speedometer reads 75, you'll actually be going 61mph. To maintain highway speed of 80mph - what my local highways are posted at - you'll be spinning 2800rpms. That's neither good nor bad, but your uncorrected speedometer will read just about 100mph to get to the speed limit, and if you drive 90mph like the flow of traffic, your speedometer will be up around 110mph. - and that means your engine and drivetrain through to the drive flange of the differential will be experiencing 110mph equivalent rotational speeds.

Just food for thought. IMO 4.10 gears would be ideal for 34's, but there are none available for the rear axle. A GX460 rear diff 3.909 would be just a hair off of returning to stock gearing. So 4.56 would be my next choice and I'd probably try to find clearance for 35's. For my use, I don't see any reason I'd ever go to 4.88's because I'd be running 38"+ tires and at that point I'd have different axles. OTOH if my 4runner was a dedicated trail rig - sure, I'll almost always go lower gears. My Land Cruiser has 5.29's and I don't think they are low enough at times.

And if you can afford it - a Lefty transfer case with a 4.7 gear set would be my first choice and keep stock gearing for highway use.

Orlyg1521 02-18-2015 11:58 AM
Bought the MT 2011 TE with 35's and 4:56, MPG as 12-14. Dropped to 33's and MPG up to 15-17. Gearing feels fine, not under powered except up steep hills but not bad. City/hwy feel fine.

Go for it depending on the size your going for

JMG73072 02-18-2015 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy (Post 1928269)
I think it kinda depends on what your goal is. Do you want lower than stock gearing? 4.56 will be significantly lower gearing with 34's than stock. When your speedometer reads 75, your actual speed will only be 65mph. With 4.88 gears, when your speedometer reads 75, you'll actually be going 61mph. To maintain highway speed of 80mph - what my local highways are posted at - you'll be spinning 2800rpms. That's neither good nor bad, but your uncorrected speedometer will read just about 100mph to get to the speed limit, and if you drive 90mph like the flow of traffic, your speedometer will be up around 110mph. - and that means your engine and drivetrain through to the drive flange of the differential will be experiencing 110mph equivalent rotational speeds.


Just food for thought. IMO 4.10 gears would be ideal for 34's, but there are none available for the rear axle. A GX460 rear diff 3.909 would be just a hair off of returning to stock gearing. So 4.56 would be my next choice and I'd probably try to find clearance for 35's. For my use, I don't see any reason I'd ever go to 4.88's because I'd be running 38"+ tires and at that point I'd have different axles. OTOH if my 4runner was a dedicated trail rig - sure, I'll almost always go lower gears. My Land Cruiser has 5.29's and I don't think they are low enough at times.

And if you can afford it - a Lefty transfer case with a 4.7 gear set would be my first choice and keep stock gearing for highway use.

Jetboy-
I could maybe stuff a big 34 like a 34.4 but I think that's about all. Just constantly searches for a gear on the slightest of hills between 4th & 5th. The goal is to correct that, I do dd about 50-60miles a day 50/50 city/hwy. Fuel mileage is already 14ish so whatever on that front, I didn't buy this thing for its stellar economy. Some lower 1st gear in 4lo would be welcome too. Thanks for the thoughts.

Jeremy556 02-18-2015 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy (Post 1928269)
When your speedometer reads 75, your actual speed will only be 65mph. With 4.88 gears, when your speedometer reads 75, you'll actually be going 61mph. To maintain highway speed of 80mph - what my local highways are posted at - you'll be spinning 2800rpms. That's neither good nor bad, but your uncorrected speedometer will read just about 100mph to get to the speed limit, and if you drive 90mph like the flow of traffic, your speedometer will be up around 110mph.
Interestingly, the 5th gen speedometer and odometer readings come from the wheel sensors and not the sensor on the transmission, so regearing does not affect the speedo/odo readings, just tire size. This is the first vehicle I have re-geared that I didn't need a speedohealer.

wfo9 02-18-2015 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy (Post 1928269)
I think it kinda depends on what your goal is. Do you want lower than stock gearing? 4.56 will be significantly lower gearing with 34's than stock. When your speedometer reads 75, your actual speed will only be 65mph. With 4.88 gears, when your speedometer reads 75, you'll actually be going 61mph. To maintain highway speed of 80mph - what my local highways are posted at - you'll be spinning 2800rpms. That's neither good nor bad, but your uncorrected speedometer will read just about 100mph to get to the speed limit, and if you drive 90mph like the flow of traffic, your speedometer will be up around 110mph. - and that means your engine and drivetrain through to the drive flange of the differential will be experiencing 110mph equivalent rotational speeds.

Just food for thought. IMO 4.10 gears would be ideal for 34's, but there are none available for the rear axle. A GX460 rear diff 3.909 would be just a hair off of returning to stock gearing. So 4.56 would be my next choice and I'd probably try to find clearance for 35's. For my use, I don't see any reason I'd ever go to 4.88's because I'd be running 38"+ tires and at that point I'd have different axles. OTOH if my 4runner was a dedicated trail rig - sure, I'll almost always go lower gears. My Land Cruiser has 5.29's and I don't think they are low enough at times.

And if you can afford it - a Lefty transfer case with a 4.7 gear set would be my first choice and keep stock gearing for highway use.
The speedometer will be correct (besides tire size). It reads wheel speed.

Swarty 02-18-2015 12:56 PM
A nice calculator.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG73072 (Post 1928239)
Getting ready to re-gear and lock. I run 34's, has anyone went 4.88 vs 4.56 yet? I'm leaning towards the 4.88 with my bigger tires. Thoughs for those that went this way or those that stayed with 4.56? Looking to have ECGS do the assembly's.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
Just so you can calc your revs, etc. free and super useful. GRIMMJEEPER is on the forum somewhere....

Also when comparing a 4runner to a Landcruiser remember that the older Landcruisers transfer case is 1:2 or 1:2.3 depending on year while the 5th gen 4runner is 1:2.57. This allows you to use higher gearing.just an FYI. If you do the math a 4.56 in a 4runner is about equivalent to a 5.29 in a landcruiser. Well sort of. Once you look at the transmission it gets a bit more fuzzy.

Jetboy 02-18-2015 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy556 (Post 1928349)
Interestingly, the 5th gen speedometer and odometer readings come from the wheel sensors and not the sensor on the transmission, so regearing does not affect the speedo/odo readings, just tire size. This is the first vehicle I have re-geared that I didn't need a speedohealer.
I learn something new every day here. I like the idea. So... how would you re-calibrate it? Are folks using an electronic inline interceptor/signal generator? I imagine you could get custom machined tone rings, but that's a bit more work to install.

Does anyone know how a 4.7 transfer case gear set would impact all the other vehicle speed sensitive functions - like crawl control, KDSS operation, rear locker automatic disengage, etc? The engine rpms wouldn't match up with what the cpu is expecting based on speed readings.

Jeremy556 02-18-2015 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetboy (Post 1928440)
I learn something new every day here. I like the idea. So... how would you re-calibrate it? Are folks using an electronic inline interceptor/signal generator? I imagine you could get custom machined tone rings, but that's a bit more work to install.

Does anyone know how a 4.7 transfer case gear set would impact all the other vehicle speed sensitive functions - like crawl control, KDSS operation, rear locker automatic disengage, etc? The engine rpms wouldn't match up with what the cpu is expecting based on speed readings.
The speedo error isn't bad up to 34" tire so I don't think anyone has bothered with it.

I haven't seen anyone here that has changed transfer case gearing, but maybe someone on the FJC forums has on a 2010+.

bimrunner 02-18-2015 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy556 (Post 1928486)
The speedo error isn't bad up to 34" tire so I don't think anyone has bothered with it.

I haven't seen anyone here that has changed transfer case gearing, but maybe someone on the FJC forums has on a 2010+.
@JMG73072 @Jetboy Do the gears and see if it bothers you. According to GPS, my speedo is only off 7-8% all due to tire size. It feels great crawling with the new gears and the stock t-case. I wouldn't mess with it unless you discover you want more out of your rig. I like the 4.56 with 34s myself but only you know how you want it to feel. I think unless you planned to run 35s at the smallest, you will be happier with the 4.56 gears. The pinion head starts getting thin in the 4.88. It might be fine but a lot of FCJ guys were having problems with 4.88. I honestly think 4.56 is the sweet spot for the stock housings.

Jeremy556 02-18-2015 03:04 PM
Doing some reading in the FSM and looking at the real time data lists on the engine ecu and skid control ecus.

"The skid control ECU converts signals from the speed sensor into 4-pulse signals and sends them to the combination meter. After these signals are converted into a more precise rectangular waveform by the waveform shaping circuit inside the combination meter, they are then transmitted to the power management control ECU. The power management control ECU determines the vehicle speed based on the frequencies of these pulse signals."

The engine ecu has SPD (NT) and SPD (SP2) speed inputs from the transmission, NT being turbine shaft speed and SP2 is output shaft speed

txbonds 02-18-2015 03:08 PM
Out of curiosity how the heck are you guys fitting 34, 35 and larger tires? I felt like I was doing good to get 33s on mine even with a full on radflo 2.5 suspension.

Jeremy556 02-18-2015 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds (Post 1928527)
Out of curiosity how the heck are you guys fitting 34, 35 and larger tires? I felt like I was doing good to get 33s on mine even with a full on radflo 2.5 suspension.
Cutting.

For 35s I think you'll need body lift, drop bracket/spindle, or long travel and extended bump stops.

txbonds 02-18-2015 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy556 (Post 1928531)
Cutting.

For 35s I think you'll need body lift, drop bracket/spindle, or long travel and extended bump stops.
Ah. I see. Too much for mine now since its a daily driver first. Thanks.

Jetboy 02-18-2015 03:31 PM
I'm on stock side tires. Probably won't modify my T4R for a while as I have an FJ40 trail rig with a lot more of everything - tires, suspension, 1,000lbs lighter, etc. But, I keep dreaming of a more comfortable 4runner that's maybe 75% as capable.

My future dream mod set would be maybe 37's with custom a-arms that relocate the front spindle forward 2" and maybe outward 1-2" with longer travel. Once you go past the basics, you'll need to start cutting. And then you're going past a point of no return. And at some point you usually find that having a dedicated trail rig is cheaper than trying to do both daily driving and more difficult offroading with the same vehicle. I really like the 4runner as is and even stock it's quite capable.

wfo9 02-18-2015 03:41 PM
My truck just has 33s at the moment, but the spedo is 100% accurate according to GPS @ 80mph...

I purchased my truck used and it had 33s on it. The previous owner had all the work done at Toyota of Dallas, which is trdparts4u. So I assume they might have done something with the ECU to correct the slight error, or maybe the error with 33s is so small that it cannot be measured....

To the OP. I think 4.56 is a better way to go. I really like mine and would not go back to 3.73 for anything, but I do wish I could shift one more gear on the hwy on flat ground. I don't have a stock muffler, so I get a little resonance at about 70mph now. I find it is best at 65 or 75. 70 is noisy, but I think most of that is my exhaust.... I lost about 1.5mpg going to 4.56. I basically get about 16 on the hwy now and 15 around town.

JMG73072 02-18-2015 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by txbonds (Post 1928538)
Ah. I see. Too much for mine now since its a daily driver first. Thanks.
It's not much cutting, a little on the bumper cover up front and a good bmc and you too can run 34's. With the MT rear bump stops I can still stuff it all the way to the stops and probably clear each side by maybe as much as 3/8". Mine is my DD too fwiw. I am leaning towards the 4.56's. Thanks to all who have chimed in so far.

txbonds 02-18-2015 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG73072 (Post 1928568)
It's not much cutting, a little on the bumper cover up front and a good bmc and you too can run 34's. With the MT rear bump stops I can still stuff it all the way to the stops and probably clear each side by maybe as much as 3/8". Mine is my DD too fwiw. I am leaning towards the 4.56's. Thanks to all who have chimed in so far.
Good to know. Thanks.

I have brand new 33s right now but on the next tire change down the road I might look at 34s. I'll have a shrockworks front bumper shortly so I'd only need to do the BMC up front I guess.

KCcarguy 02-18-2015 04:29 PM
You're not messing around John. Your rig has come a long way. I can't wait to see it in person!

wfo9 02-18-2015 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy556 (Post 1928531)
Cutting.

For 35s I think you'll need body lift, drop bracket/spindle, or long travel and extended bump stops.
I would love to run 35s. I already have the 3" bump top spacers and LT in the rear. The bumper and BMC up front is next. However, I still think 35s would rub, so I will probably just do some 34s.

I wonder what it took for the 35s on the MT rig.

TravelWest01 02-18-2015 05:36 PM
34" work
 
Lots of people here run 34" tires, that is the max without significant mods as mentioned above.

bimrunner 02-18-2015 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfo9 (Post 1928693)
I would love to run 35s. I already have the 3" bump top spacers and LT in the rear. The bumper and BMC up front is next. However, I still think 35s would rub, so I will probably just do some 34s.

I wonder what it took for the 35s on the MT rig.
I talked to LT about that. They didn't do anything special but they did replace a busted fender in the front once. They just let them rub and replaced as needed. They did have some limit straps and bump stops up front though and all the normal trimming/bmc. They had the TC extended axles and front LT kit too. They said it did fine. Really very little difference between. 305/70/17 MTR and a "real" 35. Maybe just go most of the way with the MTR? I'm seriously leaning that way for my next set of tires.

JMG73072 02-18-2015 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimrunner (Post 1928759)
I talked to LT about that. They didn't do anything special but they did replace a busted fender in the front once. They just let them rub and replaced as needed. They did have some limit straps and bump stops up front though and all the normal trimming/bmc. They had the TC extended axles and front LT kit too. They said it did fine. Really very little difference between. 305/70/17 MTR and a "real" 35. Maybe just go most of the way with the MTR? I'm seriously leaning that way for my next set of tires.
Any idea what bumps up front they/MT were running? What are you running? I've looked at the Timbren Bumps but I can't tell if they are actually larger than stock.

bimrunner 02-18-2015 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG73072 (Post 1928825)
Any idea what bumps up front they/MT were running? What are you running? I've looked at the Timbren Bumps but I can't tell if they are actually larger than stock.
Can bumps. I don't remember which of the two on their site they ran. I don't have any on mine but have only hit once when I accidentally jumped the rig. Lol. It wasn't big since I run 700lb front springs.

I do have the MT extended bumps on the rear.

JMG73072 02-18-2015 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimrunner (Post 1928831)
Can bumps. I don't remember which of the two on their site they ran. I don't have any on mine but have only hit once when I accidentally jumped the rig. Lol. It wasn't big since I run 700lb front springs.

I do have the MT extended bumps on the rear.
They have the SPC on their site now at half off. My 650's seem hard to compress at times, can't imagine a 700. Thanks for the info today.

wfo9 02-19-2015 02:37 AM
Here are some tires I have been considering with measured size listed. The Toyo Open Country MT 285/75 looks about ideal in size. Maybe the 305 MTR would also work well.

285/75
BFG KM2 33.9 X 11.3
Nitto Trail Grappler MT 34.09 x 11.2
Toyo Open Country MT 34.1 x 11.6


305/70
Good MTR 34.1 x 12.2
BFG KM2 33.9 x 12.2


315/70
Good Duratrac 34.4 x 12.7
IROK ND 34.5 x 12.5
Good MTR 34.7 x 12.7

mikey's2010SR5 02-19-2015 03:09 AM
Anyone went 4.88 yet?
 
I am super happy with my 285/75x17 trail grapplers so far. Had to do the BMC plus the front bumper. Probably need to hammer the pinch weld next. The rear is going to get flexed out to see where I need to trim the rear and if I need to extend the bumps.

As for gearing, I will be going with 4.56. At the time I was looking it was the only size that was being made for our rears. Are the 4.88s available now?

I think if you go to a 35, especially a wide one, you are going to start rubbing the frame and probably the firewall. From what I have seen it takes a lot to go to a 35 and to have it work well. Not just on road.

wfo9 02-19-2015 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey's2010SR5 (Post 1929228)
I am super happy with my 285/75x17 trail grapplers so far. Had to do the BMC plus the front bumper. Probably need to hammer the pinch weld next. The rear is going to get flexed out to see where I need to trim the rear and if I need to extend the bumps.

As for gearing, I will be going with 4.56. At the time I was looking it was the only size that was being made for our rears. Are the 4.88s available now?

I think if you go to a 35, especially a wide one, you are going to start rubbing the frame and probably the firewall. From what I have seen it takes a lot to go to a 35 and to have it work well. Not just on road.
It looks like your rig is begging for the MT LT rear springs and shocks + bump stops. It is the best bang for the buck possible on a 5th gen trail rig (IMHO). My truck went from meh in the rocks to 5th gen ftw.

The trail Grapplers have the smallest section width of the bunch (which might help with clearance), but it looks like you are on a 9" rim. What is your back spacing? I'm thinking the 305 MTR on an 8" 4.5 backspaced rim would work. I'm just not sure exactly where the typical contact points are (besides the body mount and lower front edge up front)

I'm on the list for the DO bumper. I'm going to up the tire size as soon as I get that on.

rochmpr 02-19-2015 10:53 AM
I went with the Toyo's 285/75. Chopped the body mount, and still need to weld it up when I get it back from the LAB. Currently being stuffed with 4.56's. When I get it back, i will most likely have to do some adjusting with a BFH at the rear of the fender (pinch weld) and what ever else makes contact.

Jeremy556 02-19-2015 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey's2010SR5 (Post 1929228)
I think if you go to a 35, especially a wide one, you are going to start rubbing the frame...
My driver's side rubs the frame rail at full lock left when stuffed, 285/70/17 MTR on 17x8 4.5" backspace, 0 offset ATX Mojaves.

xaqori 02-19-2015 12:36 PM
In a Tacoma here. I have 35s and 4.88 gears on ARB lockers. It's definitely worth going 4.88s instead of 4.56 if you plan on mainly doing city or off-road miles. Highway leaves a bit to be desired though. At 77mpp (on my non-calibrated speedo) I'm right at 3,000RPM. Just food for thought. http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/ima...s/blahblah.gif

mikey's2010SR5 02-22-2015 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wfo9 (Post 1929342)
It looks like your rig is begging for the MT LT rear springs and shocks + bump stops. It is the best bang for the buck possible on a 5th gen trail rig (IMHO). My truck went from meh in the rocks to 5th gen ftw.

The trail Grapplers have the smallest section width of the bunch (which might help with clearance), but it looks like you are on a 9" rim. What is your back spacing? I'm thinking the 305 MTR on an 8" 4.5 backspaced rim would work. I'm just not sure exactly where the typical contact points are (besides the body mount and lower front edge up front)

I'm on the list for the DO bumper. I'm going to up the tire size as soon as I get that on.
I would love to start piecing together the MT LT kit. But I need to do other things first. Already have the upper and lower arms. Just need to figure if the Heavy springs would be enough for the amount of weight I have. But considering Ben @bimrunner is using the kit I should be ok.

As far as the wheels go, I am running a negative offset which put my backspacing at 4.53 in. A 305/70x17 is more along the lines of a 34. Definitely wider then my 34, so I would anticipate a little more rubbing then mine.

Is DO finally going to release a production model or are you going to have them build you a custom job?

bimrunner 02-22-2015 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey's2010SR5 (Post 1931916)
I would love to start piecing together the MT LT kit. But I need to do other things first. Already have the upper and lower arms. Just need to figure if the Heavy springs would be enough for the amount of weight I have. But considering Ben @bimrunner is using the kit I should be ok.

As far as the wheels go, I am running a negative offset which put my backspacing at 4.53 in. A 305/70x17 is more along the lines of a 34. Definitely wider then my 34, so I would anticipate a little more rubbing then mine.

Is DO finally going to release a production model or are you going to have them build you a custom job?
Heavies are plenty for the weight. Load my back up and have to use one 3rd row seat if the whole family comes along. With my third row, fridge, tent, recovery gear, etc and all the people (4-6 normally), I'd say it is enough. In fact, the bigger problem would be if you disn't have enough weight, these springs would give over 4" of rear lift with a dual rate and I'm guessing a very stiff ride. I keep 100lbs of stuff and I have that third row seating, which probably equates to your storage system.

maddiesel67 06-30-2017 02:23 PM
I just placed and order with ecgs for full 4.88 front and rear with harrop elockers.

Im thinking about doing 4.56 instead of 4.88 my current tires are 295/70/17 or 33.5x12x17 im planning on going to 315/70/17 or 34.5x12.3x17 i am also running a lot of weight full builtin kitchen/storage system , fridge , rooftent, armor , skids, winch , spare tire etc etc got to be 1000-1500 extra lbs


Im planning of driving cross country so i dont want too much gear.. but i so want better then stock gearing

56s or 88s??

maddiesel67 07-01-2017 02:08 PM
anyone? i have to make a decision by monday. at this point i think its smart to back it down to 4.56 as im only running 33.5's currently and not planning on going bigger then 315/34.5

empty403 04-25-2018 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddiesel67 (Post 2738264)
anyone? i have to make a decision by monday. at this point i think its smart to back it down to 4.56 as im only running 33.5's currently and not planning on going bigger then 315/34.5
What did you end up going with? I personally know that you will need to select the correct Harrop front elocker part number depending if you go with a 4.56 or 4.88


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