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-   -   Need Help - Household Electrical Wiring (https://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/251862-need-help-household-electrical-wiring.html)

Bluesky 07 03-02-2018 07:26 PM
Need Help - Household Electrical Wiring
 
I'm pretty sure I know how to wire this but wanted to ask how you who have some experience and expertise would do it. Researched it online and it's crazy how much conflicting info there is.

The fixtures are mounted on rafters in an unfinished basement. This part of the basement will not be finished in the future. I tried to explain everything else in the illustration but lmk if you need any questions answered. Would really appreciate some feedback on how you would handle this.

https://i.imgur.com/udMQC7Hl.png

Rock_Rat 03-02-2018 10:14 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Pretty easy. Just be careful working with high voltage electrical wiring and make sure you don't need a permit, etc. You could easily have googled what you're looking for... Single pole switch to Lights

I would like to recommend the following two books that I have in my collection:
  • Stanley Complete Wiring
  • Black and Decker The Complete Guide to Home Wiring

Anyway just to get the pictures I googled it for you. Enjoy the pic! Switch to lights in series.

Black (pwr) goes through the switch. White (neutral) by-passes switch to the lights. Grounds are obvious.

Bluesky 07 03-02-2018 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock_Rat (Post 2924770)
Pretty easy. Just be careful working with high voltage electrical wiring and make sure you don't need a permit, etc. You could easily have googled what you're looking for... Single pole switch to Lights

I would like to recommend the following two books that I have in my collection:
  • Stanley Complete Wiring
  • Black and Decker The Complete Guide to Home Wiring

Anyway just to get the pictures I googled it for you. Enjoy the pic! Switch to lights in series.

Black (pwr) goes through the switch. White (neutral) by-passes switch to the lights. Grounds are obvious.
Not so much to we who are not as familiar as others. :confused:

Did the web search and you're right, there are many diagrams and articles. I couldn't find a definitive answer about the grounds. These are plastic boxes and the supply ground in the existing fixture isn't connected to anything, it's just balled up and shoved in the box. Sounds like that one should be connected to the ground screw of the fixture and the same with the other two I'm adding. Is that right?

Also, the existing fixture is in the middle, not on one end. Does that matter?

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate the book recommendations and will look at both.

MN4runnerman 03-02-2018 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock_Rat (Post 2924770)
I would like to recommend the following two books that I have in my collection:
  • Stanley Complete Wiring
  • Black and Decker The Complete Guide to Home Wiring
Does these books cover 240v applications?

Rock_Rat 03-02-2018 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesky 07 (Post 2924785)
Not so much to we who are not as familiar as others. :confused:

Did the web search and you're right, there are many diagrams and articles. I couldn't find a definitive answer about the grounds. These are plastic boxes and the supply ground in the existing fixture isn't connected to anything, it's just balled up and shoved in the box. Sounds like that one should be connected to the ground screw of the fixture and the same with the other two I'm adding. Is that right?

Also, the existing fixture is in the middle, not on one end. Does that matter?

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate the book recommendations and will look at both.
Yes, there should be a ground on your switch (Only three terminals on a single pole switch) and the ground should have been on your fixture as well.

It doesn't matter where your lights are. They're still wired in series with 14/2. In the illustration with the three lights your additional fixtures will look like the light on the end. Your wires will terminate at the two additional light fixtures. Make sense? Pwr/neutral/grd goes to your main light and branches off to your two additional fixtures.

Rock_Rat 03-02-2018 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN4runnerman (Post 2924788)
Does these books cover 240v applications?
There's two pages in the Stanley book and one or two pages in the B&D book dedicated to adding a 240V receptacles (Dryer, Ranges etc...)

Bluesky 07 03-02-2018 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock_Rat (Post 2924790)
Yes, there should be a ground on your switch (Only three terminals on a single pole switch) and the ground should have been on your fixture as well.

It doesn't matter where your lights are. They're still wired in series with 14/2. In the illustration with the three lights your additional fixtures will look like the light on the end. Your wires will terminate at the two additional light fixtures. Make sense? Pwr/neutral/grd goes to your main light and branches off to your two additional fixtures.
Thanks, I really appreciate it. So at the middle fixture, it'll be black to black, white to white, and ground to ground with the wires going to the additional outlets and pigtails out to go to the screws on that fixture, is that right?

Rock_Rat 03-02-2018 11:44 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesky 07 (Post 2924807)
Thanks, I really appreciate it. So at the middle fixture, it'll be black to black, white to white, and ground to ground with the wires going to the additional outlets and pigtails out to go to the screws on that fixture, is that right?
This is correct.

You should have four wires in your wire nut for each wire (Black, White, and Ground) as such...

Quick little drawing for you.

TK-422 03-03-2018 02:49 AM
If you are using more wires you will also need a larger wire nut. Likely red if you are using 4 wires.

https://www.nachi.org/forum/attachme...9&d=1171303492

Bluesky 07 03-03-2018 09:33 AM
Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate your time in answering my questions.

I took this pic of the current fixture just to show why the ground thing had me puzzled. I'm not shocked (no pun intended) as I've seen plenty of online advice saying no ground is necessary in plastic boxes and I assume it had to meet code, right? House was built in 2008 and everything works correctly. (Knocking on wood.) Should I check the switch to be sure the ground is connected there? It has to be, right?

https://i.imgur.com/3Gqv6Lpl.jpg

RAD4Runner 03-03-2018 03:26 PM
Run ground to junction box, NOT connect to plastic
 
Like Rock Rat says and drew ^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesky 07 (Post 2924961)
...no ground is necessary in plastic boxes and I assume it had to meet code, right? https://i.imgur.com/3Gqv6Lpl.jpg
That is correct; One cannot ground plastic, an insulator.
If that were a metal junction box, yes, the ground wire should be connected to it.
However, it makeS sense that the ground wire always be ran to the junction box because:
1) You are most likely using a wire with 3 conductors already, AND
2) Later you may decide to install a fixture with metal housing.

I WOULD still insulate and tie-off the hanging ground wire to make sure it does not move and short against the hot terminals.

EXAMPLE...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ar...9=w710-h639-no


However... lights are wired in parallel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock_Rat (Post 2924790)
... They're still wired in series with 14/2...
By "series", perhaps you meant "Daisy-chained"?

Rock_Rat 03-03-2018 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesky 07 (Post 2924961)
Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate your time in answering my questions.

I took this pic of the current fixture just to show why the ground thing had me puzzled. I'm not shocked (no pun intended) as I've seen plenty of online advice saying no ground is necessary in plastic boxes and I assume it had to meet code, right? House was built in 2008 and everything works correctly. (Knocking on wood.) Should I check the switch to be sure the ground is connected there? It has to be, right?
Just make sure the ground going to the switch is connected and you'll be ok. Wait until you start running three wire where you have two switches controlling your lights. I have 11 cans in my bonus room, flood lights, ambient lighting, a switch for my movie screen, one for the projector, one for the gas fireplace, outlets for the wine fridge, microwave, popcorn maker etc. Now that WAS FUN to wire!!

EDIT: Exactly what RAD4Runner said. Keep the ground in tact, you may need it later if you ever run different light fixtures.

Rock_Rat 03-03-2018 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAD4Runner (Post 2925155)
Like Rock Rat says and drew ^^^


That is correct; One cannot ground plastic, an insulator.
If that were a metal junction box, yes, the ground wire should be connected to it.
However, it makeS sense that the ground wire always be ran to the junction box because:
1) You are most likely using a wire with 3 conductors already, AND
2) Later you may decide to install a fixture with metal housing.

I WOULD still insulate and tie-off the hanging ground wire to make sure it does not move and short against the hot terminals.

EXAMPLE...

However... lights are wired in parallel.


By "series", perhaps you meant "Daisy-chained"?
Yes!! haha

Bluesky 07 03-07-2018 05:53 PM
@Rock_Rat , @RAD4Runner , @TK-422 , thanks again for the advice. Here are the results.

This is how I did the fixtures at each end.
https://i.imgur.com/cBwAnlOl.jpg

When I looked more closely at the original fixture, it was straight plastic and didn't have a ground screw at all. I replaced it with the same porcelain (that's what it looks like at least) model as were installed on each end. Here's the wiring. I found the push-in connectors to be far easier given the 4 wires in each connection.
https://i.imgur.com/pWDGkawl.jpg

And then there was light!
https://i.imgur.com/IfG75uQl.jpg

RAD4Runner 03-08-2018 02:07 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesky 07 (Post 2928387)
...This is how I did the fixtures at each end.
...And then there was light!
Cool! But isn't that bare ground wire too close to neutral? You made sure it did not bend too close to neutral when you pushed it up into the junction box?


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