No start (no click/no crank) when engine hot.
 

(1990 Toyota 4Runner, Automatic, V6, 3L, SR5, 3-VZE)

I have intermittent start problem for a while now and everything in the path of Starting System and Charging system have been checked, cleaned and/or replaced (mostly replaced) based on people’s recommendation on other threads and my own research without results (except I have not touched the distributor yet), but my finding is that it happens more often during the hot season (70 Degree or higher) and long distances (>25 miles)(I have heat shield installed around the starter too). It won’t happen during the winter time as often. I am convinced it has to do with a heat sensitive part!

In this post the only thing I am interested to know is: What heat sensitive parts would prevent car from starting (no click, no crank)? I appreciate it if the answers and comments concentrate on this subject.

Based on what I have researched and read, for example,
Coolant temp sensor may cause rough start but not a no click/no crank start problem. ( just ordered one anyway and will replace this)
The heated Oxygen sensor may cause engine light to come on but it would not stop the car from starting.
Bad thermostat may cause engine temp issues but would not prevent engine from starting.
So, what heat sensitive parts could prevent the car to start (with no click/no crank at all)?

To recap, please note that:

(1990 Toyota 4Runner, Automatic, V6, 3L, SR5, 3-VZE)
1_ It is an intermittent problem and not a hard fail. (it won’t fail when you want it too!)
2_ When it fails to start there is no click or crank!
2_ Even in the summer, as long as the car is running it is fine and temp gauge always reading normally). It is only after a stop and shutting engine off that there is >90% chance the car may not start.
3_ Engine light never come on when this happens and there is never an engine code failure registered.
3_ It always starts after an hour or two of waiting without doing anything

Thanks in advance.

Ignition coils are known to do this, more common on small engines but does happen

Thank you for the suggestion jbtvt! Previously out of suspicion, I replaced the coil control module (not the coil) and that did not help. To verify the coil, I loosened the coil contact and I got a rough start and an engine fault. When my No Start problem happens I expect the Engine light on or a fault registered, but there are none; the reason I have not replaced it!

Edit, on second thought you say no crank, it should still crank with a bad coil, missed that on my first skim through. If it doesn't die on its own and is strictly limited to a starting issue you should consider rewiring your start circuit, Pick up this thread from here - Gevo's 91 4Runner Build Thread - Page 19 - YotaTech Forums O2, coolant temp etc are irrelevant to anything other than proper running after start and closed loop mode is entered

4. INSPECT PRIMARY COIL RESISTANCE
Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between
the positive (+) and negative (–) terminals.
Primary coil resistance (Cold):
0.36–0.55
Primary coil resistance (Hot):
0.45–0.660
If the resistance is not as specified, replace the igni–
tion coil
5. INSPECT SECONDARY COIL RESISTANCE
Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between
the positive (+) terminal and high–tension terminal.
Secondary coil resistance (Cold):
9.0 – 15.4 k
Secondary coil resistance (Hot):
11.4 – 18.1 k
If the resistance is not as specified, replace the igni–
tion coil.

Distributor check is attached as image. There's also a whole section (pages, too long, not copied) about the plug wires, which can lead to coil failure. Not mentioned here in the FSM is the "tap" test for testing the igniter. I can't remember how to do it off the top of my head, Google should know though.

Please clarify,
1) This is "No-CLICK, NO-CRANK" problem correct? Starter and engine does not turn at all, OR
2) No "Combustion" problem. Motor turns but air-fuel mixture is no ignited.

If (1), do not mess with ignition or fuel injection system. Look at cranking system.

You have an automatic so current needed to energize the starter solenoid has to travel a very long way and through a neutral safety switch which MAY BE AT THE TRANSMISSION* so may have dirty contacts. This causes too much power loss over wiring and contacts.

BUT BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, pls check if your starter solenoid CONSISTENTLY works when you apply 12V directly from battery to its control pin as shown on my post here:
RAD4Runner's 1986 4Runner dlx Build-up - Page 43 - YotaTech Forums

See more on my post on Yotatech. Here:
Starter Relay Re-Wire or Retrofit for 95 and earlier Trucks / 4Runner - YotaTech Forums


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fH...=w1291-h776-no






* I don't know because I have a 22RE with manual tranny

As previously stated by RAD4Runner, I would suspect your starter and all electrical cables. Also, clean up all of your grounds to the block and fuse box.

Hi. Its been awhile and I have got used to the pain of this problem. Yet, I have read more and I have a question.
Without refreshing what the problem is I would like to know if anyone can tell on 1990 Toyota 4Runner 3VZE, 3.0L,V6, where is the location of the Ignition Switch Relay (not the ignition Switch itself and not the Starter Relay). I thought it would be located somewhere at the end of steering column inside the car but, I don’t see anything looking like the Ignition Switch Relay my search produces for my 4Runner and shown in the image here. Thank you!

Did you fix it yet?
When it doesn't start, what happens if you try and jump it?

Does it start when you jump it? What if you try and just attach some cables to the battery and the other end to some metal on the car - will it start then? Or if you wait 2 hours, will it start again then? If yes to any of those, did you do RAD4Runners mod to bypass the relay?

I had a very similar problem which several mechanics could never figure out. What was happening was that the starter (which was working fine) was not getting enough juice from the battery, b/c the juice had to travel half way around the vehicle from the battery to the starter to get it to go. It was a $10 mod w a little bit of wire, fuse and solder.... and since then, it has started every time.

RAD4Runner might be able to assist should that be the issue. You'll want the wiring schematic for that year. Look at his threads on the topic.

Replace the starter

$90 at Amazon

Amazon.com : 4runner starter

don't have it "fixed"

I wish the Starter was always the cause of all start problems. That would be so easy to take care of. Starter has already been replaced and I have even covered it with heath shield. Almost all parts involved with Ignition System and Start System has been replaced. Thank you for the suggestion anyway!

Oh boy!!! Griswald, you really asked the right questions, I am exactly experiencing the same issues. I believe you may be the one with the right answer. Because it is not a hard failure and does not fail when you need it to, mechanics cannot figure it out and just want to keep replacing parts until they get lucky. Anything I suspected I replaced myself, at least I didn’t have to pay labor cost!

I either have to wait for a couple hours or jump it. Not any jump, it has to be a strong jump starter. My Lexus ES300 car battery wouldn’t jump start it but a good size truck usually can jump start my 4Runner. So I have bought a JUMP-N-CARRY 12V JUMP STARTER 1700 PEAK AMPS and I keep it fully charged to start my car when the no_start problem happens. That is how I am getting by.

If this problem gets resolved this 4Runner can run at least another 100k because almost every part under the hood has been cleaned, repaired, tested, adjusted or replaced except the bare engine block. Engine runs smoothly when it is working and every year is passing the California strict Smog test.
I very, very, very much appreciate it if you kindly provide me with a simple drawing of your fix and materials/parts used. I have the original Toyota shop Repair Manual.

Thank you!

Jumping to conclusion.

EXTREMELY LONG PATH OF STARTER SOLENOID COIL CURRENT WITHOUT STARTER RELAY ON ALL TRUCKS UP TO 1995 WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.yot...8094618338.png

You can analyze it all you want or hesitate to fix it or spend approx $12 worth to parts and 30 minutes to fix.
Starter Relay Re-Wire or Retrofit for 95 and earlier Trucks / 4Runner - YotaTech Forums

Thank you very much. This is very helpful and I believe is the answer to my problem. This diagram is for 22R model, mine is 3VZE, v6 model. I Just have to figure out my wiring since component locations are different. Not sure when I get this done but I will post an update when that happens.
Thanks again, I appreciate it very much!

First. The ground wires on these old trucks go bad from the inside out.. they will show continuity but will not carry the load..
The starting circuit runs through the gear selection switch on the side of the trans. The start "relay" part goes bad. Nothing else wrong with the switch. And they are pricy to replace.
There is a write up on yotatech on how to bypass the switch and run a new relay. How ever after the bypass. The engine will start in any gear. best of luck:ak472: