Cam Bolts and Whiteline LCA Bushing Excessive Play Help
This Question has been resolved, the Whiteline Installation Tutorial can be found here: Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushing Tutorial (120+ Pictures)
------ Hello All, I'm needing some help with LCA bushings that appear to have excessive play. I tried to break it up into some sections to try and explain my situation as best as possible. Background: As a quarantine project, I am replacing the alignment cams and my lower control arm bushings. I know most people would recommend replacing the whole LCA, but I have a lot of time right now and am willing to put in the extra work. I figure I will take the hard road try to learn a bit, then do a writeup afterwards for others. There are lots of writeups out there on the energy suspension bushings, but my cams are probably seized into the bushings beyond the point of reusing the sleeves. A few 3rd gen writeups recommended the Whiteline bushings, so I figured I would get the 4th gen equivalent bushings. Unfortunately there weren't really any complete threads on the 4th gen whitelines, only a few half complete threads without an active OP. Parts: I ordered the Whiteline W53312 LCA bushing kit from Amazon and all OEM alignment cam bolts from McGeorge Toyota. I am sure that the cams are the correct part numbers, I cross referenced this post by NeutronJon and this one by blackfc3s to make sure I had the correct ones. Question: I did a dry fit on my desk, and I was struck by the amount of play between the bushing's inner sleeve and the cam bolt. My understanding is control arm rotation should occur between the bushing ID and the sleeve OD, which is greased on assembly. Let me know if this is incorrect, I'm trying to learn all I can. I feel like the amount of play in the sleeve is beyond normal, since it is not supposed to rotate on the alignment cam. In the case that this is normal, does tightening the bolts take up the slop? Tightening the bolt will limit movement front to back and would rely on only friction to hold them in the in, out, up, down directions (maybe call it r, θ direction lol). Relevant Threads: LCA bushings
Whiteline VS OEM LCA bushings
Measurements: I took measurements a bit after posting this, and the pictures can be found in post #14 linked here: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3493028-post14.html The OD of the rear cam bolt is a close to 13.5mm The ID of the rear bushing sleeve is close to 14.5mm The OD of the front cam bolt is a hair over 19mm The ID of the front bushing sleeve is just about 20mm Videos (should open in new Imgur tab if you click the image): Embedded videos do not seem to work on mobile, so they've been posted as unlisted on youtube rear bushing sleeve play: YouTube front cam bolt and bushing sleeve play: YouTube front bushing play: YouTube front bushing play 2: YouTube Front LCA Bushing Video: <a href="https://imgur.com/H8u3QrE " target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/H8u3QrEl.mp4" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> Rear LCA Bushing Video: <a href="https://imgur.com/8a58rrf" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/8a58rrfl.mp4" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> Also, I do notice the rear cam bolt has a shoulder on the head side, but not on the nut side. There is also a ridged section on the nut side of the bushing, what is the function of this? <a href="https://imgur.com/yZsJ7sI" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/yZsJ7sIl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/gZVAdpE" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/gZVAdpEl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> Pic of the dry fit, in case there is something obviously wrong: <a href="https://imgur.com/0bKrIev" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/0bKrIevl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> <a href="https://imgur.com/AEIuHYR" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/AEIuHYRl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> |
I started in on these not long after brian3676 did his... mine are still sitting collecting dust in the garage... i am a master procrastinator.
I measure a 9/16" ID on that rear bushing sleeve. The WL bushings have one side that is slightly longer than the other side of the bushing, The longer side should be pointed to the outside, your (dry fit) pic has one side backwards. Seems like to much gap in that pic you posted, cam bolt/WL bushing sleeve. Wrong bolts? |
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it
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<a href="https://imgur.com/ENClck7" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/ENClck7m.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> Quote:
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<a href="https://imgur.com/na6DMzO" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/na6DMzOl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> edit: added part about visually matching old ones |
I can't watch the videos for some reason. Are those pics with the bolts tightened down? It's my understanding that these bushings are supposed to allow the LCA to rotate freely, that is where the improvement in driveability comes from supposedly. I've been leaning towards these rather than new LCA's. Following.
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rear bushing sleeve play: YouTube front cam bolt and bushing sleeve play: YouTube front bushing play: YouTube front bushing play 2: YouTube The bolts are only hand tight on my desk. I could go out and cut the old control arm bolts and bolt these ups before pressing into the control arms. I'm scared to get in too deep haha. Yeah I liked that they offered some slight handling benefits over the standard rubber bushing, or even other poly bushings. My understanding from reading up is the control arm rotation should occur between the bushing ID and the sleeve OD, which is greased on assembly. The rotation isn't supposed to occur metal on metal between the sleeve ID and the cam OD. Am I understanding this correctly? |
I guess what you're saying makes the most logical sense. Might be worth reaching out to whiteline if you don't want to try the install first.
Another thing to take into consideration is you'll want to grease these liberally. Might be why there's a small amount of wiggle. Also the bushings won't sit right against the cam plates like that installed, it'll have the frame mount in there as well. Torqued to spec I'd speculate (lol) they'll fit fine. Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk |
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The OEM bushing ID is 9/16" too, btw.
And the w53312 was the same ones i did. I would check the new to the old bolts when you get it apart, if they match up, go for it. Seems like a bolt that is the same 9/16" the whole length would be better...must be by design, flex for the caster/camber? Taco guys swear by Superlube for the grease. I will try and get mine on within the next couple weeks. If you cant get the OEM bushings out... |
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As for grease, Backoff had mentioned the taco guys like superlube and I had read that as well. Before, I was thinking of getting a marine grease, so that water getting in there would have trouble displacing a grease meant to withstand water. I still gotta finalize the grease choice. True, the frame mounts will be sandwiched in there. The front bushing actually won't really tighten up without them in there. Odd how they don't use the same cam design front and rear. |
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I'll do the best comparison I can after the massacre of seized cams haha. Just looking from the outside, everything appears to be the same. Of course, they could be different on the inside. Yeah I had read about superlube, but also considered some marine grease. I was figuring a grease aimed to withstand water might do well on the suspension that gets splashed or submerged, but I dunno. Still gonna finalize by research on that Oof, looks like a lot of cutting. I'm hoping I can melt the circumference so it will release and then either bottle jack or press them out the rest of the way. The jack method scares me that it could bend the control arm. I've seen a few other tricks on tacomaworld, but I'm also ready to go buy a big press from harbor freight. New toys are always fun |
Forgot about these, Tacotabs.
9/16" bolt Poly Performance Tab Alignment Cam Delete Kit for Toyota 05-15 Tacoma, 03-09 4Runner, GX470, 07-09 FJ Cruiser | POLY PERFORMANCE |
I've been running the Whiteline bushings in my OE LCAs for over two years. I don't recall ever testing the cam bolts in the bushing before installation, so I can't say for certain that I did or didn't have any play. Either way, I haven't had any issues that I'm aware of with movement of the LCAs, loss of alignment, etc. One of my quarantine tasks has been to drop the LCAs to check on the cam bolts and re-grease, so it will be a good opportunity for me to check for what you are describing.
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I will also confirm which type of grease I used. I'm a big fan of Superlube, but I often try to use a high-temp bearing or marine grease where there may be water ingress. I'll double-check what I used in this case.
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I mentioned this in FB but I'll mention it here to help the info get out. I had trouble replacing my rear lower control arm bolt with a longer bolt after welding on Eimkeith's LLS kit.
The bolt is a M14 bolt, and I bought a new M14 bolt. I went to slide it through the mount holes and the threads screwed through, like the OEM bolt, then the shank stopped dead in its tracks. After much brain racking, and measuring, I've determined that Toyota uses a Japanese Standard Metric which has a narrower shank than thread. So on an M14 OEM bolt, the threads are 14mm and the shank is 13mm. On a normal metric bolt, the shank and thread is 14mm. The hole in my bushing was 14mm and for the normal 14mm shank fit just fine. What this tells me is that Toyota has designed these bushings with the "loose" tolerances. Why? I don't know...maybe less seizing? |
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I did contact Whiteline and talked to a helpful representative on the phone. They're going to send my information down under to Whiteline AU so they can take a look at it. I took some measurements as well. Unfortunately my digital calipers ran out of battery, so going to have to give up some accuracy read these the manual way With the pn label still on, the OD of the rear cam bolt is a close to 13.5mm: <a href="https://imgur.com/Omqh2Lw" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/Omqh2Lwl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> The ID of the rear bushing sleeve is close to 14.5mm: <a href="https://imgur.com/vWYDRc4" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/vWYDRc4l.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> The OD of the front cam bolt with the label on is a hair over 19mm: <a href="https://imgur.com/PdEPOxa" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/PdEPOxal.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> The ID of the front bushing sleeve is just about 20mm: <a href="https://imgur.com/XOAvvio" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/XOAvviol.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> This was also posted to a 4th gen facebook group and @Runn4est over there had brought to my attention that the bolts Toyota uses are a Japanese standard. The thread peaks have a larger diameter than the shank, rather than the thread peaks having the same diameter as the shank on normal bolts. The discrepancy in these measurements could be causing the slop. I have a picture that trys to show that here: <a href="https://imgur.com/j5Wj80u"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/j5Wj80ul.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> The thread diameter on rear cam bolt is a hair over 14mm, whereas we saw earlier the bolt shank diameter was around 13.5: <a href="https://imgur.com/YQfEaft" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/YQfEaftl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a> |
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