I would echo the recommendation of making sure you document everything that has transpired, including names of those who've assissted you at the dealership.

Check your state's lemon law process so you'll know what qualifies and when. Again, documentation will almost always be critical for this process (i.e. if the lemon specifies that the dealership has three chances to remedy the situation, make sure you have written documentation showing each visit with dates, times, and names).

Presonally I'm with you. I'd want another vehicle. I would never feel really confident that this vehicle wasn't put together on a Friday afternoon just before knock-off time

I think I would be driving around waiting for the next thing to go wrong. This is not what new vehicle ownership should be like.

Good luck in any case.

They aren't going to give you a new vehicle just because you had to bring something in for repair twice. Regardless of whether it happened the first week or the first year. That's why they have warrantees.

However, check your state "lemon laws" and retain all documentation for the services performed. In Florida, it takes 5 repairs of the same item to classify as a lemon and at that point the manufacturer is required by law to permanently remedy the situation (whether a refund or a new vehicle). I had so many problems with my last vehicle (2002 VW Jetta) that I was /--/ <---this close to going in there and going postal. But once I was informed about the laws, I was able to look at things more objectively and bite my tongue. I had that thing in the dealership 3 times for the fuel injector system and I was just hoping that it would act up again just so I could throw that P.O.S back on them. I'm just glad it was all covered under warantee. Imagine having to pay for 3 or 4 services out of pocket before that lemon law kicked in.


The last thing you want to do is go in there *****ing about it. Because as soon as you become hostile about it, they totally lose respect for you and won't lift a finger to go out of their way to help you. Whereas if you are understanding (it isn't the service guys fault after all; it's a manufacturing flaw) they will continue to throw you a decent loaner vehicle and make it as easy as possible for you to get thru the inconvienance.


Just grin and bear it for now and hope that it won't become an issue again. Keep those service docs close at hand and once it happens again, you'll be ready to go to court if they don't appease you with a new vehicle.

Maybe they wont give me a new truck, but I am still going to try. I think I have a pretty good case, and I called Toyota today to open up a case against them. It should go into arbitration later this month. I will keep you posted as events unfold. Thanks for all the insight

No they don't just give out new vehicles but if a major problem happens at such a low mileage then sometimes depending on the situation they will give the customer a new vehicle.

Just stay calm and keep pushing the issue, dealers know that customers will not bother and eventually go away.

RaginCajun013
make sure the 4wheel drive works properly, shift into high, in and out the auto trans on these 4Runners with fluid have to weigh 800lbs

Am I doing the right thing by going through arbitration, or is it worth my time trying to go through the dealer first?

You should already know how the dealer is so arbitration is the next step

Whoa there. Presumably the arbitral process was suggested by Toyota USA? I haven't gone back to look at my warranty materials for dispute resolution agreements, so this is off the cuff. But before heading into arbitration, especially within the month, be sure what costs you may be required to pay, be familiar with what to expect in and from the arbitration process, and most of all, be aware that a final, binding arbitration typically is subject to highly deferential judicial review, meaning that if you're unhappy with the outcome, you may have little to no right to any subsequent judicial relief.

Don't get me wrong, arbitration might be great, it might turn out well. Arbitration can be a great time- and cost-saving method of getting a resolution. But you will need to be prepared, and you need to understand the potential ramifications for your claim.

Backing up a step, and acknowledging that you are not happy having to deal with these issues with an essentially brand new car, how has the vehicle behaved since the dealer's last "fix"? If it's running well, you may not be in a good position to expect much in the way of relief. If not, document the black smoke and knocking/poor shifting, whatever, with video.

Most of all, make sure you know what qualifies as a "lemon" under your state's lemon law. The bottom line is going to be whether you can prove that your situation meets that standard.

This is all assuming that you're talking about a formal, binding arbitration process. If this is something else, ie, some sort of informal statement of a claim before a neutral third party who can "suggest" a resolution, then you've got a lot less to lose.

from what I understand from reading the warranty book and talking to Toyota, the arbitration process will be free to me. This I am certain of. The "independant" agency conducting the investigation will want to see evidence of my claim, which I can provide, and they will talk to the servicing dealer. The dealer told me that I was one of 3 4runners with this problem reported in the US. I believe that this fact alone entitles me to a new vehicle. Obviously, if this is true, my truck is not the same as other 4Runners. is my logic correct??

I had almost the exact same situation happen to me with my (former) 2002 Explorer. It's tranny went out after only 1200 miles. The 2nd one died after about 400 more miles. The third one was a rebuilt and because the total time the truck spent in the shop was 30 days, I was able to compell Ford to do the lemon buy back. Of course, even then I needed the help of an attorney. I was every bit as upset as you are now and went through most of the same thought processes you've been expressing.

Here's the bad news. Based on my research at the time, I believe the chance of getting a new truck through the arbitration process to be next to ZERO; even if your case clearly met the requirements of the lemon law in your state. If your truck is now repaired, your chances are even less (yes, less than ZERO). At most the process is going to consume a significant amount of your time and you'll probably be offered a free extended warranty or some such. Most likely you can negote that kind of settlement directly with Toyota's customer service people right over the phone without the delay or false hope of arbitration.

If you have met the requirements for the lemon law in your area(usually a certain number of failed attempts for IDENTICAL significant flaws and/or a certain number of days in the shop with the first X time of ownership) then consider contacting an attorney. There are many who specialize in lemon law cases that will take your case on contingency. Basically, they review the facts of your case and more or less already know if they can get you a quick settlement. If not, they won't take it and then you'll know your chances.

If you have further problems with your truck; make sure your service writer documents the problems IN YOUR WORDS EXACTLY. Make sure the description you use is IDENTICAL each time. Make sure you get a copy of the work-order AND the invoice upon completion of the work. Insist that the invoice include the problem (in your words), the resolution, the date/time/mileage the car was dropped off, work was completed, and the car was picked up. NEVER pick up your car without receiving the final invoice with all the information above. As you get close to meeting the lemon requirements, the dealer service shop will find all sorts of reasons to muck up the paperwork, or avoid giving it to you at all. The auto manufacturers are well versed in this game and will use any possible angle to avoid the buy-back.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I know EXACTLY how you feel!

Toyota may want your truck back to further investigate the problem.

Doesn't Toyota already have his defective transmission (the one that was replaced)? Is the 4runner running right now or is there still a problem?

Toyota has the transmission that they replaced, and the new one did the exact same thing. They added extra transmission fluid?? and claimed it would fix it. I have had it back for a couple days with no problems so far, but I am fairly certain the problem will come back soon. Something with the truck just doesnt feel right, but I cant put my finger on it.

Everyone try this --- Get up to about 30 mph on a flat road, and slam on the brakes. after the truck has come to a complete stop, immediately hit the gas. That is the circumstances that mine failed under, like clockwork.

Sounds like they can't fix it so you should get a new one. Good luck.

Following up on RaginCajun's concern about his transmission being overfilled by the dealer, I am wondering: since this is a sealed unit, would it have anything other than a fill-plug on the side? Seems like it would be difficult to overfill in that case, as any "extra" fluid would quickly run out.

I'd step out and take a look at mine, but the other half is driving it today...