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Old 01-30-2007, 10:39 PM #31
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HOLY CR@P! I just got my copy of the Maintence manual RM1059U2 and I am completely impressed with the information.

I have pulled the motor from my 4Runner and gotten through most of the disassembly without any technical information. The Toyota manual answers all of the questions that I had during the disassembly of the truck. The manual answers all of the questions that I have about finish the disassembling the motor. It also includes awesome information about standard bearing sizes that are very important to me now that I have a spun rear main bearing and buggered up rear main bearing cap. Before reading the manual I would have never known that Toyota has 5 standard main bearing sizes based on tolerence stackup. Who would of known that the outer bearings (#1 and #4) are bigger and that the inner bearings (#2 and #3) are smaller main bearings? I sure didn't... but now I know!

I think that I actually smell success.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:54 PM #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by ysrsquid
I think that I actually smell success.
Woohoo!! Sounding better than the last news!
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:12 PM #33
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Dave,
Sorry about your engine, but for whatever reason, I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks for keeping us up to date!
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Old 02-03-2007, 12:11 AM #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by loner
Dave,
Sorry about your engine, but for whatever reason, I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks for keeping us up to date!
Loner,
Hopefully my story will give hope to the next guy who's motor gets trashed. It wasn't Toyota's fault. In fact, during the teardown of this truck I been very impressed with the overall design of the truck. I have pulled the drivetrain and almost completely torn apart the motor with simple hand tools. I am a Manufacturing Engineer so I really like the work that has gone into designing this truck. It kinda makes me want to go down to San Antonio and get a job at the new Toyota plant.

Anyway, I have taken the past couple of nights off. I still have to finish pulling the crank out so that I can take it to the machinist to get an idea if the crank and main journals are still servicable. I expect to finish pulling the crank this weekend. So far I only have the rear main bearing out.... the one that spun. Even though I haven't pulled any more bearings it looks like the front (#1 bearing) is good. From the metal that I found in the pan I expect to find 1 more failed bearing.

Here's a picture that represents all of the metal flakes in the oil. The picture is of one of the cams. Its pretty amazing that the oil (where it is thick) just looks ugly brown. But when the oil is thin (like on the cam lobes) you can see all of the metal that is entrapped in the oil. I'm not sure if all of these metal flakes came out of the oil pan (the motor was upside down for several days while I was checking the rod bearings) or if these flakes were just sitting in the head or in the oil. Either way, it is pretty suprising to see so much metal floating around in the oil. It sure looks like it would do an excellent job at polishing down surfaces.

So while I am tearing down the motor this is just another variable in the decision to completely teardown or replace the motor....

Anyway, crank comes out this weekend. Later, Dave

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Old 02-03-2007, 12:28 AM #35
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So this is just a continuation of the previous post. The picture below is looking into the aluminum 'structural' oil pan. The engine is spun over and the small black 'stamped steel' oil pan has been removed. From this view you can see where the rear main bearing has been spit onto the side of the oil pan (circled in red). Also in this view you can see the metallic sludge which is also shown on the camshaft (in previous posting above). I have no idea how this sludge ended up on the top suface of the oil pan, but there it is.

Even though though this picture shows significant metal contamination the lower stamped steel oil pan really had a lot of metal bits. All of the metal in the lower oil pan (not shown) is what has me concerned that there is another main bearing that has failed. For example, there are strips of metal from the oil pan that are 3" long.

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Old 02-03-2007, 12:35 AM #36
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And for anyone who wants to look at the detail of thier V6 engine without actually pulling the motor out of thier truck.

I wish that this photo did justice to the complexity of the aluminum block casting. I haven't scaled the picture down just in case you want to browse through the details.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...ckfullsize.jpg
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Old 02-04-2007, 12:28 AM #37
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Day 80 of Ordeal.
Crankshaft out. I was able to pull the crankshaft out of block with heads and pistons/rods still installed. I got down to the last few rod bolts and I was really wandering if I could actually get the crank out without damaging a valve by pushing a piston into a valve.

As I pulled the mains off I found a 2nd spun bearing. This is main #3 which is also spun. Note the bearings are spun and offset. You can also see some metal shavings between the bearing surface and the crank.


Here's the same main after crank has been removed. Notice all of the metal in the oil journal.



Here's a picture of the engine after the crankshaft has been removed. I used zip ties to hold the rods in place and keep them from dropping as I removed the crankshaft.


Next Up: Determine replacement bearing sizes and take crank to machinist to fix mains #2 and #3.
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:50 AM #38
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http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...ckfullsize.jpg

Is that the timing chain in the front? Sorry if that is a silly question, but I'm not nearly confident enough in my abilities to pull an engine like you have.

I've never heard of anyone pulling the V6 out so your thread is very, very informative. Thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress!

BTW, are you doing all this at home? If so, you're garage must be awesome!!!
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Old 02-04-2007, 03:35 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharp4runr
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...ckfullsize.jpg

Is that the timing chain in the front? Sorry if that is a silly question, but I'm not nearly confident enough in my abilities to pull an engine like you have.

I've never heard of anyone pulling the V6 out so your thread is very, very informative. Thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress!

BTW, are you doing all this at home? If so, you're garage must be awesome!!!
I included the overall picture because the engine is really a work of art. The engine casting is very impressive. Yes that's the timing chains on the front. There are 3 chains. There is a primary chain which runs down to the crank and each head. That chain has the orange and yellow marks to make sure that the crank and cams are oriented correctly. Then each head has secondary chain for driving the intake and exhaust cams. The big picture has the motor at TDC for #1 but the primary chain colored links are out of position. I don't know how many times I had to spin the motor over until I finally got the primary chain in the correct position (so I could take pictures and ensure I got the crank back in the right position during reassembly). I spent at least 1 hour turning and turning... I wore my arms out by the time I finally got that primary chain in the correct orientation.

BTW - I am doing the work in my garage. I haven't really needed any special tools to pull the motor. 95% of the fasteners are 10mm or 12mm. There have been a couple 15mm and a couple Torx and a single Allen.
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Old 02-06-2007, 12:36 AM #40
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Feeling your pain

Squid,

I'm new to the forumand have read your entire thread with great interest. I really really feel bad for you.

I do all my own oil changes and never had a oil filter seal blow. I normally use Wix, Hastings filters.

I would think that if the oil seal blew you shold have some recourse with the Mfg of the oil filter.

It would be very nice to know who's oil filter failed. you can bet I won't ever buy one.

I feel so bad for you that I want to come over and help you out. Of course that not possible as I'm in NJ.

Good luck and thanks for the info.


Don
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:50 AM #41
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Re: Feeling your pain

Quote:
Originally posted by kanadakid
Squid,

I'm new to the forumand have read your entire thread with great interest. I really really feel bad for you.

I do all my own oil changes and never had a oil filter seal blow. I normally use Wix, Hastings filters.

I would think that if the oil seal blew you shold have some recourse with the Mfg of the oil filter.

It would be very nice to know who's oil filter failed. you can bet I won't ever buy one.

I feel so bad for you that I want to come over and help you out. Of course that not possible as I'm in NJ.

Good luck and thanks for the info.


Don
Unfortunately I cannot find the failed oil filter. It was a brand I normally wouldn't have bought because the the brands that I normally use were not available in the correct size. I thought that I had kept the oil filter but it's gone.... So rather than naming the bad filter I can only name that it wasn't my normal brand which is Mobil 1. Just to be clear, it was not a Mobil 1 filter.

So for the update.... I plan on taking the crank to the machine shop tomorrow. The problem is that the standard bearings don't allow much variance in diameter. The Toyotas have an easy way of measuring tolerences so that the correct standard bearings can be selected (of 5 std sizes based on tolerence stack up). The problem is that my crank can be turned down only 0.0014" until the crank hits the minimum diameter for a standard bearing. I don't think that a machine shop can hold that type of tolerence without spending significant money. Also, even if the machine shop is able to turn the crank 0.0014" down, the question then is has the crank been turned enough to get rid of the scarring that occured when the bearings spun. I doubt it. Then the question would become is there enough of the bearing surface left for the engine to still run reliably and not have another bearing failure soon after the bearing replacement. Maybe the crank can be turned down more and then I get a set of bearings that fit but were designed for another car.

My cost estimates are also pretty quickly climbing (nothing spent yet other than my labor).

Basic Cost Estimates (best prices so far):
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings & Turn Crank: $1000
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings & Replace Crank: $1200
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings, Turn Crank, Replace Rings: $1200
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings, Replace Crank, Replace Rings: $1400
RETAIL PRICE: Replacement of bearings, crank, and rings: $1700

And guess what... (what?) I have found salvage motors starting at $1700.
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Old 02-08-2007, 01:27 AM #42
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My honest opinion: Don't bother rebuilding it... Get a salvage engine that you know was running when a vehicle got crashed and know that it will run reliably for the next 200k miles without much drama.

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Old 02-08-2007, 02:44 PM #43
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Re: Re: Feeling your pain

Quote:
Originally posted by ysrsquid
... I don't think that a machine shop can hold that type of tolerence without spending significant money...

My cost estimates...
WHOLESALE: Replace Bearings, Replace Crank, Replace Rings: $1400
RETAIL PRICE: Replacement of bearings, crank, and rings: $1700

And guess what... (what?) I have found salvage motors starting at $1700.
I agree on a machine shop not being able to turn the crank. So now the question is why are you looking at (piston) rings? Is there evidence of damage to the cylinder walls (if yes, then follow Ricky's advice to get another motor) or are you just playing it safe? I would do them plus the new crank & bearings if you can get the pistons out the bottom. Are all the oil journals free and clear of debris? Can you pull a piston to see if the valves are burned? Since you've gone this far how difficult would it be to pull the valve covers and assess the valve train? It would only cost a couple of gaskets (plus we need pics!)
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:56 PM #44
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Re: Re: Re: Feeling your pain

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Originally posted by Kmvreter
I agree on a machine shop not being able to turn the crank. So now the question is why are you looking at (piston) rings? Is there evidence of damage to the cylinder walls (if yes, then follow Ricky's advice to get another motor) or are you just playing it safe? I would do them plus the new crank & bearings if you can get the pistons out the bottom. Are all the oil journals free and clear of debris? Can you pull a piston to see if the valves are burned? Since you've gone this far how difficult would it be to pull the valve covers and assess the valve train? It would only cost a couple of gaskets (plus we need pics!)
I included the costs for all of the parts (including rings) just so that everyone could see my options (and someday someone else's options).

When I pulled the motor my original plan was to replace the main and rod bearings. I didn't think that I would find significant engine damage beyond the bearings (since the engine still had good Compression Ratio).

If the only damage had been the bearings, I could have replaced all bearings for $500. For insurance, I could have also replaced the rings for additional $200. That to me seems like a pretty good value.

Once I got the crank out I found the spun bearings which had eaten the crank and the block. That significantly raises the cost of repairs. Crank repairs are $500 - $700. Engine block repairs haven't been estimated. I belive that I COULD clean up the caps and block myself with emmory cloth.

And then you get into the next issue.... debris in the engine. I posted an earlier picture (of cam lobe) of the residual metal particles in the oil. It makes the oil look gray or silver when the oil is a thin layer.

I also pulled the cam caps off last night to see what damage there was to the camshafts. Each of the cam caps has a 'cutout' which holds oil. The cutouts have captured metal shavings (looked like bearing material) which were moving thorugh the oil passageways.



So now I not only have damaged crank and block, I also have an unknown amount of metal shavings in the crevices of the motor.

As noted above by RickyCRX and Kmvreter, the path at this point is pretty obvious. The motor 'could' be rebuilt but it's not worth rebuilding. Time to start seriously looking for replacement motor.

Bluto had posted the http://www.car-part.com link. There are two 1GR-FE motors in Texas for under $1800. What do you want to bet that I'll be buying one of them?

Dave
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:47 AM #45
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I agree, Dave, that your path is pretty obvious. No sense throwing good money into it when the replacement engine will be more cost-effective.

You still planning to give your wife the failed bearings for Valentine's Day??
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