Why do you say this? Just curious. I drove it for the first time - uphill - on our way from PHX to Flag. Views were fantastic - when we stopped. I can see the downhill being better for them. Definitely bumpy, but it was literally our first trail in the 4runner. Headed to Flagstaff tomorrow - do you have any suggested trails there?

I think you got it The views are downhill, uphill you have to stop to enjoy.

I really enjoyed that trail, 10 years ago, in a Subaru Tribeca. I drove it 4 more times in my Subarus last a couple years ago.

The reason I have come to dislike it is that there was no reason to let the dirt road deteriorate to rough dirt (as it was 10 years go) and then to easy trail status (from a few years ago) and Charlie Wells says he is contemplating giving it a moderate rating (bottom of the barrel moderate but moderate). This would be a fun dirt road, but it is too wide to be a trail, just feels wrong to me.

And I may have become spoiled for driving lots of trails.

Flagstaff. Well, too many pictures of rolled 4Runners where they should not have rolled and I know absolutely nothing about your experience, which may be well more than mine; I just don't know. Both trails that I like around Flagstaff have a tricky spot or element to them. Most other trails there are fine but nothing to write home about, typically forest roads, some seriously bumpy like the one connecting Kinnickinnick and Long lakes.

I will say this: the Charlie Wells trail descriptions are super terse but also extremely precise. He is a tad conservative but not much (unless you have a Rubicon). So I strongly recommend his advice. If you follow his Flagstaff trail descriptions, avoid optional segment forest road 9124C on O'Leary Peak loop not because of the tilted section per se, but because when we drove it in spring 2018 we got tilted a good 30 degrees on two drainages running across and increasing the tilt by a lot. It may have been repaired or gotten even worse. I am really worried about people without experience and/or without walking the section first rolling over. Hence I cannot recommend anything. I have similar reasons not to recommend his Cinder Hills OHV route to people I don't know because how that will go and be perceived depends on the driver's experience.

The new Wells guide for Arizona should be out by March, so you may want to wait till then.

For reasonable trails, this is a good site:
Offroad Trails — AZOFFROAD.NET

The above site uses an old lifted Grand Cherokee and I find it quite conservative for a Trail Edition 4R but that's a good thing for most people. The site below, conversely, uses a lifted 2dr Rubicon so here things work the other way round:

For GPX files and much more comprehensive coverage:
Phoenix to Flagstaff Jeep trails GPS tracks. - Jeep the USA

However, the latter site has very brief descriptions and I don't personally touch trails rated 3.5 let alone above. I would drive a couple of their 3.5s in Utah but not here. In AZ, I end at 3 and I would not drive just any 3 either. Has to be interesting. The 2s are the equivalent of Charlie Wells easy and 2.5s are equivalent to Charlie Wells moderate. For the most part. Trail conditions can change drastically at any time.


In sum, for trail selection use the ratings provided by those guides.

Have fun and stay safe! Always happy to talk trails but I need to know what you have driven to date to be more specific about trails.

Make sure to run Rim Road or FR300 also know as Mogollon Rim as there are rumors it closing to the public.

Will do. Peeked at it and yes looks fantastic. Is that paved the whole way? Any suggested camp sites?

From my understanding, it is a very smooth dirt road. Buddy was joking around and said you could set your cruise control at 70 and you wouldn't have any issues. But did advise to keep your head on a swivel with all the large game (elk and deer) that roam around the Rim Road.