GM passes Toyota in Quality???

[KCcarguy]

Maybe I'm in denial, but I just don't buy it. Besides, this only measures short-term reliability. We'll see which cars look and work better 5-10 years down the road. My money (literally) is still on Toyota.

GM Passes Toyota for First Time in J.D. Power Quality Survey | ABC News - Yahoo!

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

Hmm.... Wonder how much GM payed JD P&A :biggrin2:

 

[-JD-]

^Yup. I find it hard to take JD power seriously after some of the things they've written in the past.

I have been following the chevy volt and its forum pretty closely though. Most of the owners are very happy with the quality and you really dont see too many issues popping up on the forum.

 

[Thai]

^Yup. I find it hard to take JD power seriously after some of the things they've written in the past.

I have been following the chevy volt and its forum pretty closely though. Most of the owners are very happy with the quality and you really dont see too many issues popping up on the forum.

This is the INITIAL quality study...which is not very authoritative. Yes, it may be a sign of things to come...BUT, the better study is their DEPENDABILITY study by JD Powers. So, before jumping the gun, we need to wait for that study to come out to confirm this one.

My brother's Cruze has had two very significant issues...all under 40k miles. Luckily, after the first major incident (failure of PCM), GM gave him free extended warranty till 100k miles. It looks like his Cruze was made on a Friday afternoon for sure....

BUT, despite these two issues, my brother still loves his Cruze very much. In my experience riding in it, it is a very solid feeling car and very quiet for a compact.

 

[Stick Figure]

Chevy quality as with most domestics has been on the rise in recent years, and I'll be the first to say the quality of 99% of the newer Toyota's isn't what I expect from them in comparison to the original 80's era Toyota line that I fell in love with. I still highly doubt GM has surpassed Toyota in quality at this point, but let them print it Toyota could use a few more wake up calls to bring back some well built cars with the letters "GT-S" on them.

 

[LandCruiser]

I had a 2007 Sierra farm truck until I traded it for a Limited for the wife.

100k miles, heavy towing, heavy off road use... nothing went wrong. Not a single thing.

Their heavy truck and SUV division is something pretty solid and dependable. Not so sure about their other vehicles.

 

[Thai]

Chevy quality as with most domestics has been on the rise in recent years, and I'll be the first to say the quality of 99% of the newer Toyota's isn't what I expect from them in comparison to the original 80's era Toyota line that I fell in love with. I still highly doubt GM has surpassed Toyota in quality at this point, but let them print it Toyota could use a few more wake up calls to bring back some well built cars with the letters "GT-S" on them.

I don't know about 1980's Toyotas...i was too young then to care!

However, this notion that current Toyotas are cheaply made is debatable. I think that nostalgia makes us forget sometimes. My brother had a 1998 (or 1999) Lexus GS300, which by all accounts, a great car...a true testiment to "old" Lexus build quality. While the GS300 was a good car, it also had a ton of issues for my brother after about 50k miles. Brakes, A/C, and other minor stuff. I think that by around 100k miles or so, the repair bills were too high...so, my brother traded-in for a Mercedes GLK. (On another note, GLK has been trouble-free for him, but it doesn't have much miles on it.) My aunt's 2002 Corolla was also not that great in terms of build quality. Again, 2002 Corollas were supposed to be excellent...the last of the great Corollas to many fans. But, the plastics were cracking...the headliners was sagging like those darn old domestics. The car was mechanically sound, but the interior was falling apart before your eyes. And this Corolla is garaged and my aunt is very very gentle with her car. Never left in the sun.

Are these two examples the norm? I don't know...i hope not. But, it also does not mean that the older Toyotas were fabulously well-built as many people think. I am sure that the old Toyotas were for the most part better than Domestics. I think what we're seeing is the rise of domestics to match (or come close to) Toyota...so, the perception from Toyota fans is that Toyota quality has fallen. In addition, the push for recalls, the rise of internet sharing/forums, the media witch hunts, and lawsuits in recent times have highlighted this. If you had a shitty 1980 Toyota Corolla, then who were you going to tell back then??

Look at our 4runners. We all say how great 3rd gens were. Yet, we forget the horrid rear sagging, the under-equipment (rear drum brakes on a $35k SUV!), horrible ride, cheap interior plastics (not much better than newer 4runners), etc.. The newer 4runners may have slightly cheaper plastics and thinner sheetmetal where it doesn't count, but that is to offset the superior equipment and much stronger body/frame.

My opinion.

 

[BucknutBob]

Two points here, with one already mentioned--take the polling with a grain of salt. I remember all too well some of the utterly ridiculous Motor Trend Car/Truck of the Year "winners", where they absolutely HAD to be bought out. I wouldn't put it past even a JD Power survey. Also, I would want to see EXACTLY what the survey respondents were willing to live with, and how biased they were before taking a look. A few years ago, I thought I'd dig around for info on the mid-2000's small Blazer, just because I liked the look of their 2-door model (merely out of CURIOSITY, people!)--when I read surveys from SATISFIED or even HIGHLY-SATISFIED owners, it was amazing all the crap they replaced on their trucks and didn't think it was abnormal! With a Toyota, perfection is basically the standard they shoot for--with a GM, they just hope for some of the bits to survive a few years to consider it a success. And after working on vehicles for most of my life, I can say with certainty that the domestics regularly come up with the most idiotic "engineering" solutions, often just for the sake of changing something that worked just fine before--you will never see more gimmicks than on a domestic vehicle!

 

[KCcarguy]

Two points here, with one already mentioned--take the polling with a grain of salt. I remember all too well some of the utterly ridiculous Motor Trend Car/Truck of the Year "winners", where they absolutely HAD to be bought out. I wouldn't put it past even a JD Power survey. Also, I would want to see EXACTLY what the survey respondents were willing to live with, and how biased they were before taking a look. A few years ago, I thought I'd dig around for info on the mid-2000's small Blazer, just because I liked the look of their 2-door model (merely out of CURIOSITY, people!)--when I read surveys from SATISFIED or even HIGHLY-SATISFIED owners, it was amazing all the crap they replaced on their trucks and didn't think it was abnormal! With a Toyota, perfection is basically the standard they shoot for--with a GM, they just hope for some of the bits to survive a few years to consider it a success. And after working on vehicles for most of my life, I can say with certainty that the domestics regularly come up with the most idiotic "engineering" solutions, often just for the sake of changing something that worked just fine before--you will never see more gimmicks than on a domestic vehicle!

So true! My wife's family are all dedicated domestic buyers. We always secretly laugh at them when they say "time to trade.... It's got 75k miles and hardly any problems". They just don't know what they're missing.