Toyota planning 10 more hybrids

[Derek]

Just saw this on CNN. Sounds like Toyota once again is headed in the right direction. I wonder how long until we see a hybrid 4Runner.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/08/03/toyota_hybrid_push/

Toyota planning 10 more hybrids

By the end of this decade, Toyota plans for 25 percent of U.S. sales to be hybrid vehicles.

August 3, 2005; Posted: 12:56 p.m. EDT (1656 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Toyota Motor Corp. plans to introduce 10 more gasoline-electric hybrid models globally by early next decade in a push to boost total sales of hybrids to 1 million, a top Toyota U.S. executive said.

The world's second-biggest automaker is also aiming for hybrid vehicles to account for at least 25 percent of its U.S. sales in the same time period, Jim Press, Toyota's U.S. president and chief operating officer, told Reuters on the sidelines of an auto conference in this northern Michigan resort.

Meeting a global goal of 1 million hybrid vehicles would mean that Toyota would have to sell about 600,000 vehicles in the U.S. alone, Press said, according to a report from Automotive News, an industry newspaper.

"To achieve that goal, we will have to look at offering hybrid power systems in virtually all of our vehicles, including trucks," Press told Automotive News.

Owners of future hybrid vehicles might be able to choose between high gas mileage or more performance by pressing a button on the instrument panel, said Press, according to the Automotive News report.

Currently, some hybrid cars, like the Toyota Prius, are engineered to offer maximum fuel efficiency while others, like the Lexus 400h SUV, also from Toyota, offer increased performance at the cost of the best possible fuel economy.

Gasoline/electric hybrid vehicles use electric motors in addition to gasoline engines to power the car. Some of the power from the gasoline engine and from braking is used to charge batteries for the electric motor.

Toyota is currently working on hybrid-powered pick-up trucks, Press told Automotive News.

 

[Koz]

The FTX will most likely replace my blown PreRunner.

Koz

 

[Mark86]

I heard from a few good sources at a Lexus dealer that they will be coming out with a hybrid LS and GX in the future. That could mean a hybrid 4Runner!

 

[Mr.yoshimura]

Can someone explain to me how does a hybrid motor work? does it use gas?

 

[Koz]

Can someone explain to me how does a hybrid motor work? does it use gas?

A hybrid has a gas engine and several electric motors (run from rechargeable batteries) that work together and alone. Usually it will start with the electric motors, then as the load decreases it uses both electric and gas, and when your up to highway speeds it will run on the gas engine. When the gas engine is running it will recharge the batteries. It also recharges the batteries when the engine is braking (decelerating).

Koz

 

[peter78]

Can someone explain to me how does a hybrid motor work? does it use gas?

I have driven two hybirds. My Sister's 5 speed Honda Insight and a Toyota Prius (spelling?). They get by with a smaller engine and a electric motor to help out especially in leaving from a stop.

Two things I notice is the gearing is such that the gas engines do not rev up easily and they shift early, in the 5 speed a light comes on when you are suppose to shift and you are not even near the power curve. And the next biggest thing, is when you come to a stop, the engine stops, unless you have high air on. It is wierd. When you start up or you put the clutch in and the engine starts up.

Another minor thing is that there is a dispaly showing what is going on with the motors and the electricity, I don't really understand the display at all.

On the Honda there is a warning by the batteries, it says "Do Not Open you will be killed or hurt."

My Sister's Web site page on the Insight.
http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/m/a/maddrush/insight.html

 

[Mark86]

Can someone explain to me how does a hybrid motor work? does it use gas?

We just got a 2006 Lexus RX400h so I will try to explain how this car works. First off, this doesn't have your standard 4, 5, or 6 speed transmission. It has something called a ECVT transmission, which means there are no gears. You hear the engine reving and no gear shifting, but I have to say, this thing has a load of power. When you frist start the car, it is nothing like starting your 4Runner. You would think that the battery on the car died. You click the key to start, but you have to wait until a ready light comes on. There is no cranking or reving of the engine (completely silent during start up). When you back out of a parking space, the gas engine is not running. If you were to get out of the car after you started it, all you would hear are the electric motors and and the AC compressor running. The gas engine will turn on and off as needed. If you were cruising down the road without your foot on the gas, the gas engine would probably be off. When you accelerate easy at low speeds, the electric engines will only be on as well. When you need more power, the gas engine will kick on immediately and you won't realize it. Basically, the electic engines are enough to power you while your foot is off the accelerator or when idling at a traffic light. The gas engine is on when accelerating or when cruising at highway speeds with your foot on the accelerator. When the A/C is on, the gas engine will kick on more often. When the gas engine is off, the electric motors are powered by a battery under the back seat. This battery is recharged when you step on the brakes to stop the car. As that battery wears down (sitting in traffic for a long time), the gas engine will turn on. When you brake, you hear weird noises because it is recharging the battery. The brakes on the RX400h feel different than the brakes on my 4Runner.

Here is a picture I posted in another thread of the information screen. If you want anymore pictures or video, just tell me.

 

[armchairguy]

I don't feel hydrid technology is pratical for towing and light truck purposes. Its an option for urban commuters but not the vast realm of rural and cargo hauling buyers. Toyota does have very good and clean diesel engine solutions which they offer globally. However, Toyota corporate has stated that their direction in the United States of America market is hydrid technology only and will not offer their diesel engines. Too bad. Meanwhile the big three will continue to capture all of the growing diesel market even though Toyota could do very very well here.

Why can't we get a diesel HiLux in the USA?

 

[Offroader]

Why can't we get a diesel HiLux in the USA?

Because the average American doesn't like Diesel, doesn't care about fuel consumption, and because USA is the only country in the world where Diesel is more expensive than Gasoline.

 

[servo_fan]

Why can't we get a diesel HiLux in the USA?

Even if a diesel were available for the United States, it might not be available everywhere. You can't get the CRD Jeep Liberty in California and a few other states if I recall.

 

[armchairguy]

Offroader - Well put. Sad but true.

Road diesel fuel is way over taxed. To think that diesel fuel is a byproduct of the more refined gasoline products (in other words, its cheaper to produce) yet its so much more expensive. Its all about taxes.

 

[Offroader]

Offroader - Well put. Sad but true.

Road diesel fuel is way over taxed. To think that diesel fuel is a byproduct of the more refined gasoline products (in other words, its cheaper to produce) yet its so much more expensive. Its all about taxes.

Yep, Uncle Sam doesn't want Diesel on Highways. I still don't understand why American and European Environmental laws are so different: most new cars purchased in Europe are Diesel.

 

[Duc Hunter]

Toyota is doing great on this front. They need to get off their ass though and bring the TDI 4Runner to the USA. With the gas mileage it would get, all the Diesel trucks here and not Jeep doing the liberty in a TDI they would be ahead of the curve! Oh well, wishful thinking!

 

[armchairguy]

Toyota is doing great on this front. They need to get off their ass though and bring the TDI 4Runner to the USA. With the gas mileage it would get, all the Diesel trucks here and not Jeep doing the liberty in a TDI they would be ahead of the curve! Oh well, wishful thinking!

Very wishful....a lot of us are dreaming this same dream but Toyota corporate has all their money invested in becoming the hybrid leader for some reason. Here's Toyota's reply last week when questioned if they'll offer diesel in the US:

"Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. We are sorry we are unable to meet your desire to see diesel-powered vehicles offered by Toyota in the United States. Currently, in regards to cleaner and more fuel-efficient vehicles, Toyota's focus is on hybrid drive trains."


Now, on the subject of hybrids, take a look at the Toyota.com website. They list the gas Highlander and under hybrids also list the new Highlander Hybrid. The purchase price difference between the two standard 4x4 models is $7,000 (V6 on the gas model in this compaison). The difference in highway fuel mileage? A whopping 4mpg. Hmmmm....... pay $7,000 to get an extra 4mpg. Something just doesn't seem right. Many people complain about diesel engine options costing roughly $4,000 more than their gas model counterparts on initial purchase and not seeing the fuel consumption savings so paying almost two times that amount will take how much longer to start seeing the savings? Anyone feel like doing some math here?

I like Offroader's intercooled turbo diesel 4Runner. Too bad Toyota can't see the light here in the US. Even Mercedes-Benz reintroduced a diesel sedan back into the US market. There are more diesel options in the US than ever now but I guess Toyota marketing is always right.

 

[Duc Hunter]

Because of the way a hybrid works highway mileage is not improved much. As I understand it that is becuase on teh freeway the gas motor is running to charge the systems and provide freeway power. Around town MPG is significantly improved though, as that is where the hybrid realyis used.

 

[armchairguy]

Ahhhhh! Thanks for setting me straight, Duc Hunter.

Ok, so I went to the Toyota website and see that the difference between the gasser and hybrid Highlanders in City mileage is much more, 18mpg for the gasser and 33mpg for the hybrid. Much better.

So I plugged in some information on the Toyota "Fuel Cost Savings Calculator" to see what shakes. I used a City mileage of 21mpg for the bigger diesel 4Runner (per Offroader's experience posted on another thread) and the Hybrid's 33mpg. With an annual number of miles traveled of 15,000 miles the fuel cost savings is shown as $376.19. So, if we were to assume that the diesel 4Runner had a similar cost differential to a Hybrid counterpart and put in a guestimate of $4,000 uplift for diesel subtracted from the $7,000 differential listed the the earlier post there is a $3,000 difference in purchase price. That means it would take 7.94 years for the Hybrid to pay for that additional $3,000 purchase cost above a diesel. I'd bet that the average consumer is not going to keep their daily driver for 8 years and 120,000 miles.

Regardless of all of this "its new, its better, its more cost effective" marketing I put less than 10% of my driving miles on in the city. I'm mostly driving highway miles. However, Toyota made a corporate decision that says they won't sell me a diesel 4Runner to do my driving and get a few more miles for every gallon of fuel. Doesn't that stance mean that as a financially correct consumer I will be driving a less expensive to purchase gasser and burning up more fuel as it will still be less expensive? So the Hybrid Only sales decision is actually creating more fuel consumption and is less environmentally friendly.

I wonder how long the batteries last in the Hybrids? Will they even make that long 8 year haul to reach the payoff point? And what does it cost to pay for a battery replacement? And the various other components required to make a hybrid run? Hmmmm......

Please Toyota, just give those of us that prefer diesel and drive non-city miles the option of a diesel like the rest of the world gets.

 

[Mark86]

Ahhhhh! Thanks for setting me straight, Duc Hunter.

Ok, so I went to the Toyota website and see that the difference between the gasser and hybrid Highlanders in City mileage is much more, 18mpg for the gasser and 33mpg for the hybrid. Much better.

So I plugged in some information on the Toyota "Fuel Cost Savings Calculator" to see what shakes. I used a City mileage of 21mpg for the bigger diesel 4Runner (per Offroader's experience posted on another thread) and the Hybrid's 33mpg. With an annual number of miles traveled of 15,000 miles the fuel cost savings is shown as $376.19. So, if we were to assume that the diesel 4Runner had a similar cost differential to a Hybrid counterpart and put in a guestimate of $4,000 uplift for diesel subtracted from the $7,000 differential listed the the earlier post there is a $3,000 difference in purchase price. That means it would take 7.94 years for the Hybrid to pay for that additional $3,000 purchase cost above a diesel. I'd bet that the average consumer is not going to keep their daily driver for 8 years and 120,000 miles.

Regardless of all of this "its new, its better, its more cost effective" marketing I put less than 10% of my driving miles on in the city. I'm mostly driving highway miles. However, Toyota made a corporate decision that says they won't sell me a diesel 4Runner to do my driving and get a few more miles for every gallon of fuel. Doesn't that stance mean that as a financially correct consumer I will be driving a less expensive to purchase gasser and burning up more fuel as it will still be less expensive? So the Hybrid Only sales decision is actually creating more fuel consumption and is less environmentally friendly.

I wonder how long the batteries last in the Hybrids? Will they even make that long 8 year haul to reach the payoff point? And what does it cost to pay for a battery replacement? And the various other components required to make a hybrid run? Hmmmm......

Please Toyota, just give those of us that prefer diesel and drive non-city miles the option of a diesel like the rest of the world gets.

The hybrid components have an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty but I am unsure of the cost to replace them after it expires. I am sure it is not cheap!

I agree with you about the gas mileage 100%. Let me throw you another point of view. I don't know if other consumers thought the way we did, but we bought the RX400h because of its performance. That car has a lot more power than the gas engine version and it really sounds like a V8. Toyota/Lexus is even marketing the Highlander hybrid and RX400h as high performance vehicles. These hybrids could have even been faster if Toyota/Lexus put sportier tires on it, but they decided to sacrafice performance with tires that give you a smoother ride. We didn't even consider the gas mileage in our decision. I guess you can put it as an added "bonus" just like full-time 4WD is standard with the V8. You can compare this decision to somebody taking the V8 4Runner over the V6 4Runner. You have to test drive both of these vehicles to really experience the power difference.