violation's 4[theDog]Runner Build and Gear Review Thread

This is a thread about the journey that is the learning, building, maintaining, using, breaking and fixing of my 4Runner. I'll try to post up more-or-less in in chronological order.

Truck purchase [June 1, 2015]

Suspension/Wheels/Tires
BFGoodrich KO2s (265/75-16) [September 9, 2016] [SOLD]
ToyTec Lifts Front and Rear Suspension [March 12, 2017] [1] [2-Failure]
Total Chaos Upper Control Arms [March 12, 2017]
Toyota Tundra 231mm Brakes [March 12, 2017]
BFGoodrich KO2s (285/75-16) [May 26, 2017]
Method Race Wheels: 16x8 Method Grids [May 27, 2017]
Gorilla Automotive Lug Nuts [May 27, 2017]
Whiteline Lower Control Arm/Lower Inner Rear Bushings [August 3, 2017]
Spidertrax Spacers [March 10, 2018]
Sonoran Steel Diff Drop Kit [December 4, 2018]
Energy Suspension Steering Rack Bushings [January 9, 2019]
Extended Front/Rear Sway Bar Endlinks [January 12, 2019]

Exterior
Taco Whip Mod Installation [November 20, 2016]
Outland Gear Solutions Full-Length Roof Rack [December 23, 2016]
4xInnovations Rock Sliders [January 13, 2017]
ARB Awning 2000 [February 17, 2017]
Fourtreks Modular Awning Mounts [February 17, 2017]
Band-Aid Sticker [March 29, 2017]
4xInnovations Front & Rear Armor; Skid Plate [March 31, 2017]
76 Ball [April 1, 2017]
4xInnovations Spare Tire Carrier & Jerry Can Mounts [April 3, 2017]
Ironman emblem [June 19, 2017]
Custom Rear License Plate Relocation Bracket [July 2, 2017]

Lighting
KC HiLites 4” Halogen Lights [January 6, 2017]
LED Load Resistors [April 1, 2017]
KC HiLites Light Mount Bracket [May 14, 2017]
MicTuning LED Lights [May 14, 2017]
KC HiLites 8” HID Lights [May 26, 2017]


Interior
Kenwood Headunit [March 15, 2016]
Sleeping Platform [September 3, 2016] [SOLD]
Paranoid Fabrications Switch Panel [December 3, 2016]
Seat Belt Replacement [February 7, 2017]
Blue Sea Fuse Box [May 14, 2017]
Voltmeter & USB Plugs [May 14, 2017]
LED Interior Lights [September 1, 2017]
Blue Ridge Overland Gear MOLLE Seat Back Panel [October 19, 2017]
Interior Set-Up [December 2018]

Engine & Drivetrain
ARB Front and Rear Lockers and related accessories [December 9, 2016]
CVJ Remanufactured OEM Axles [May 21, 2017]
Lotus Development CV Axles [June 10, 2017] [1]
CBI Offroad Group 31 Battery Tray [December 4, 2018]
Northstar Group 31 Battery [December 4, 2018]
B&M Transmission Cooler [December 4, 2018]
CV Boot Extender Mod [December 4, 2018]


Misc. Gear
Dash Cam [August 15, 2015]
Gaia GPS App [September 2016] [1]
Viair 88P Air Compressor & Viair Deflater [November 11, 2016] [SOLD][1]
Yaesu FT-60R Handheld Ham Radio [December 1, 2016]
ARB Twin Air Compressor [December 9, 2016]
ARB 1-gallon Air Tank [December 9, 2016]
Luminoodle XL LED Rope Lights [December 11, 2016] [1]
Quick Fist Clamps [January 2, 2017]
Warn M8000 Winch [March 30, 2017]
Trasharoo [April 4, 2017]
Hi-Lift and Handle Keeper [April 9, 2017]
Lotus Development Hi-Lift Rock Slider Adapter [April 9, 2017]
Wavian Jerry Cans [April 13, 2017]
LaidBack Pad Sleeping Pad [April 13, 2017]
AJT Designs Key Fob [March 19, 2018]
SnoMaster Fridge [May 13, 2018]
Uniden 520XL CB Radio [December 4, 2018]

Free Spirit Recreation
FSR ReadyLight
FSR Adventure Automatic 49 Hard Shell RTT [SOLD]
FSR Adventure Series Automatic 49 Annex [SOLD]

Camping, Trips and Day Runs
Cross-Country Trip [Spring 2016]
Brush Mountain / San Emigdio Mountain Solo Trip [September 10-11, 2016]
Big Bear Camping Trip with T4R [October 8-10, 2016]
4WP Customer Appreciation Day at Hungry Valley SVRA [October 23, 2016]
Santiago Peak via Maple Springs to North Main Divide [November 13, 2016]
Anza Borrego New Years Trip [December 31, 2016 – January 2, 2017]
Anza Borrego American Adventurist Trip [February 11-12, 2017]
Gorman Day Run [April 2, 2017]
Sheephole Valley Wilderness Camping Trip [April 21-23, 2017]
Santiago Peak Run with OCO [April 30, 2017]
Los Padres Camping Trip with OCO [May 20-21, 2017]
Big Bear Camping Trip with Family [June 2-4, 2017]
Solar Eclipse Trip: Central/Coastal Oregon, Lost Coast, California Redwoods [August 19-27, 2017]
Big Bear Camping Trip [September 3-4, 2017]
Los Padres National Forest Camping Trip [October 28-29, 2017]
Dumont Dunes Trip [December 1-3, 2017]
Cleghorn Day Run [January 14, 2018]
Giant Sequoia National Monument [May 26-28, 2018]
Perseids Meteor Shower Camping Trip [August 11-12, 2018]
Mojave Road [September 1-3, 2018]
Grass Valley Wilderness Area [December 21-23, 2018]
Baja XL [January 25-February 2, 2019]
Carrizo Plains National Monument [April 19-21, 2019]

On the day I bought her [June 1, 2015]:


Work in Progress [June 21, 2017]:




[August 25, 2017]


[May 27, 2018]


[January 2019]



...

Truck Purchase

Bought with approximately 90,000 miles on her, when I still lived in New York. As a New York truck, she saw relatively minimal usage, since the previous owner worked in Manhattan and took public transit to work every day. Originally intended to be a snow-capable vehicle, my priorities were to find a reliable vehicle to be a triathlon support vehicle and dog transport vehicle. Snow capability was important because as a California native, I (still) don't have much experience driving in anything other than nice, dry weather.

The 4Runner was a very nice completely stock example. Some surface rust on the underside, but to my uneducated eye, it did not look serious (so far, that has proven to be the case). Only thing it was missing was a cargo cover. The only issues were (1) a non-working power antenna, (2) missing plastic switch cover for the power seat, driver's side, and (3) a small rock chip on the windshield. Added bonus: nice rain guards on the windows that I would have never thought to buy but have come to really like.

Camping, overlanding, rock-crawling and all of that was not even on the radar at the time. Oh how things change...

Dash Cam

G1W-CB dash cam. I have now bought two of these dash cams and am about to buy my mom one for her car as well. Make sure to buy the version with the black bezel, and not the silver one. I wanted it to be as invisible as possible to outsiders. A silver bezel would be more obvious.

No, I'm not Russian. But east coasters are horrible drivers.

This thing works great, turns on and off with the truck. Recordings are pretty clear although luckily I've never needed it yet. I was able to tuck the wires into the headliner and down inside of the plastic A-pillar cover, and then under the dash.

Installation
Easy Peasy. Suction cup on. Tuck wires away. Zip tie wires under the glove box to keep it hidden. Plug it in. Voila.

Good:
- Auto-loop. No need to worry about full memory cards.
- Good night vision.
- Wide angle.
- Can turn sound on or off for recording. I prefer to leave mine off. I mean, what if I need to show a recording and it recorded me singing? No thanks!

Bad:
- After not driving for a few days, the unit will reset the date. However, all other settings do not reset so it starts recording as normal.

More expensive units will have GPS and speedometer, which this one lacks. This is just a camera, but it's a good one at a low price.

Head Unit

Kenwood Excelon KDC-X799.

Save some money and buy refurbished units. The link is to Amazon, but check Crutchfield (no longer available now but I buy refurb items there when I need something). This has been running in my truck since 2015 with no issues.

Originally purchased because I wanted bluetooth compatibility and the OEM stereo is not bluetooth capable. The bluetooth microphone sucks ass, so I don't use it for calls; however, it's perfect for listening to podcasts and music coming from my phone. The little remote control is a nice bonus but I guess most head units come with those now.

Tip: Not all single-din headunits fit our 4Runners due to lack of depth. Crutchfield has a useful tool to see if it'll actually fit, so don't go hunting on Amazon for some smokin' deal and then find out the headunit is too deep for your dash!

Installation
I am not electrically inclined. However, I've installed headunits before, on previous cars. Not so hard when they provide you will the wiring harnesses and all. I will say that you should solder the wires where needed, and not just rely on crimping and electrical tape. That's a dumb lesson I had to learn when one of my speakers went out.. because the wires got loose. So dumb. But now I know.
Get some Auto Door Clip Panel Trim Removal Tools. These will make your life so much easier! Plus who knows how often you'll be pulling trim. So many projects will require it! Pull the center trim off your dash, then it's just a few nuts and bolts. Easy peasy. If your truck has an auto transmission, it helps to put it in neutral to get a little bit more wiggle room.

Good:
- Single din.
- Cheap, refurbished deal.
- Extra USB plug

Bad:
- Crappy bluetooth microphone
- How do I and where do I set up a NAV/touchscreen now? But nothing wrong with the unit.

(Photo from 2017)

Cross Country Trip

In the Spring of 2016, I returned to California. As a part of my move, I loaded up the truck, got the dog to get in, and took off driving.

While we stayed in cheap motels along the way, the trip was my first taste of a sense of freedom I had until then not felt. Some of my friends and family ask why I enjoy camping so much and where this love of the outdoors came from. Previously I enjoyed the outdoors and sunshine but it was typically in relation to participating in various sporting events. Now, it was a little bit different.

The cross-country drive allowed me to enjoy time alone - virtually unreachable (though likely 99% of the time I had cell phone reception). But the idea of being in a strange place, with only my most trusted of companions... this was bliss.

After I arrived in California, I discovered the whole "overlanding" sub-culture and signed right up.

St. Louis, early morning. How he looks is how I felt.

Sleeping Platform

[Written in September 2016] Having done a year of service as a grocery-getter, dog-hauler and triathlon support vehicle, the next phase of the 4Runner's life with us will take on the additional duty as an off-road capable overlanding rig. The plan is to use it as a base for camping.

One of the most basic needs of camping is somewhere to sleep. Three options come to mind: (a) a normal tent, (b) a rooftop tent, and (c) a sleeping platform. You've probably already guessed which one I chose.

The drawback of a tent is the need to set up and break down a tent at every campsite, and finding an appropriate site for a tent. A rooftop tent is expensive and puts a lot of weight very high up on the vehicle. Finally, a sleeping platform seemed to be the a very good compromise. While it added weight to the car, it is fairly low. There's nothing to set-up or break down at camp, but it's also without certain drawbacks too.

With a good friend, we built the sleeping platform approximately nine inches above the cargo floor, in order to clear the wheels (and most of the fuel filler on the driver side). This allows a nice four foot wide sleeping platform, more than enough space to sleep two people. For this fairly basic platform, we cut a semi-circular notch for the fuel filler and then took off two inches at the front of the platform behind the passenger seat. The notch for the fuel filler was necessary since a nine inch height wouldn't clear the fuel filler; this was purposefully done in order to maximize the space available above the platform. The two inches behind the passenger seat was cut out to allow the passenger to be able to recline the seat a bit while driving.



The sleeping platform itself is a 3/4" thick slab of plywood, mounted on three longitudinal supports with two cross supports. Using existing D-rings in the 4Runner, the platform is held securely in place at 6 different points. Total cost of the wood, screws and related hardware was just under $150.







[Updated thoughts 2017] What I would do differently:
- Foldable front area (at the rear seats) with removable front leg supports to allow putting the platform away and be able to use the rear passenger seats.

One of the difficulties of living with the platform is that I cannot sit up straight while on it. This seems like a small gripe, but when you are trying to change clothes or put on shoes, it suddenly becomes a nice luxury. I am also unable to stack large plastic bins due to lack of vertical space. The ability to stack would be useful on camping trips, especially since my cargo space is limited due to requiring to keep the rear seat area open for the dog.

With the carpet on the platform, it is very slippery for grocery bags and boxes of any type. A trunk organizer with rubber bottoms (to prevent sliding) has become an essential item to carry when I drive with the platform in place. Unfortunately the one I bought is no longer available on Amazon. I still do not believe a drawer system is necessary; my plastic bins do the trick just fine. However, I've seen others build drawer systems using old cabinets or dresser parts they were going to toss anyway. That seems like a brilliant idea.

Awesome rig! Which Toytec lift is it? Have you gotten any rear sag with all that weight?

About time you posted a build thread! Looking good bud, we will wheel together soon I am sure.

JohnOfTheJungle said:

Awesome rig! Which Toytec lift is it? Have you gotten any rear sag with all that weight?

Click to expand...

No sag, in fact there is a little bit of rake when the rear is empty - honestly I don't really notice it though. Once loaded up, it still looks dead even.

That being said, I did not buy an off-the-shelf kit from Toytec; rather, I spoke with one of their knowledgeable reps who pieced together a kit for me based on everything I told him about my truck and what I intended to do with it. IIRC, one of the guys at Toytec runs pretty much the exact same set-up as I do because they run plenty of extra weight on their truck too.

Love your truck! Though, I am partial to that color. My project Focus is the same color.

Damn Boy, the last time I saw your rig it was almost stock. Look at it now! You went from zero to hero. :hail:

Paranoid Fabrications Switch Panel

Paranoid Fabrications is well-known on the Tacoma forums and makes several interesting products. The switch panel comes in bare metal, and here I've sprayed it (poorly) with plastidip. For our 3rd Gen 4Runners, pick the 1st Gen Tacoma items. It's a direct fit.



The switch panel fits snugly in the lower din area and could pass for OEM. I would definitely recommend this product to anyone looking for somewhere to put switches.

Installation
Similar to the headunit, pop off the center stack trim. I have to once again recommend getting some Auto Door Clip Panel Trim Removal Tools. I've used them a countless number of times now and they certainly pay for themselves very quickly. Pop your auto trans into neutral for a bit more wiggle room. Your headunit will attache to the panel, which then attaches to the metal skeleton behind your trim. Easy peasy chicken squeezy.

Good
- Professionally made, great fit.

Bad
- No space for a touchscreen / monitor! But you can't fault the product for that.

cbr900boy said:

Damn Boy, the last time I saw your rig it was almost stock. Look at it now! You went from zero to hero. :hail:

Click to expand...

just want to be able to keep up with you, bro!

BFGoodrich KO2s (265/75-16)

Old Tire Size: 265/70-16
New Tire Size: 265/75-16

Seriously, is there much that needs to be said about the BFGoodrich KO2 all terrain tires? Everyone who has them loves them. It's probably one of the most highly recommended tires on this site and similar sites. You go on a run with your buddies, and it's likely that at least half of them, if not more of them, run these tires.

They're quiet on pavement too. So it really is the best of both worlds. These tires are just slightly larger than the OEM tires but honestly it is not noticeable. However, this particular size is noticeably cheaper than the OEM tire size!

No complaints for these tires.

4-Ripcord said:

About time you posted a build thread! Looking good bud, we will wheel together soon I am sure.

Click to expand...

just promise you'll keep the rubber side down :banana:

Lotus CV's

I see you got some Lotus CV's not to long ago, have you gotten a chance to wheel with them yet?

As a guy who's mastered grenading cv's on an open front diff I want to put a true trac up front in my truck and don't want any more practice changing cv's:tsk: so I've been considering the Lotus CV's for a while now.

Any input on them or what drove you to finally give them a shot/how you think the ARB in your rig affected your driving style/ breakages? ray:

AZSportRunner said:

I see you got some Lotus CV's not to long ago, have you gotten a chance to wheel with them yet?

As a guy who's mastered grenading cv's on an open front diff I want to put a true trac up front in my truck and don't want any more practice changing cv's:tsk: so I've been considering the Lotus CV's for a while now.

Any input on them or what drove you to finally give them a shot/how you think the ARB in your rig affected your driving style/ breakages? ray:

Click to expand...

Do you keep a spare set of CV's in your truck when you go wheeling? My old OEM axles will become my spares.

I've not yet done any wheeling with the new Lotus CV's installed. And hopefully when I do, I won't have anything to say about them because they'll just quietly do their job.

But yea, I think using the front locker is what busted the CV's. Probably just need to be more discriminating on when to engage the lockers.

Brush Mountain and San Emigdio Mountain Solo Trip

[Written in 2016]For the weekend of September 10/11, I decided to do a quick, one-nighter trip in order to test the current set-up and try out the new sleeping platform, the new tires, and take the 4Runner for some actual off-roading for the first time. It'd be a solo trip, but with the dog.

Since this was the first trip, and it was a solo trip, a lot of time was spent planning and coming up with a checklist of items to bring. I figured preparation was key to both surviving and having fun.

We hit the road on early Saturday morning, heading out to Los Padres National Forest. Once we found the campsite, the plan would be to drive the nearby trails that run along the ridge and then go for a hike with the dog. The hope was that both the drive and the hike would be challenging but not scary. The real test for the weekend would be at night, when we would settle into the 4Runner. The next morning, another drive or hike and then it was time to go home.

Most gear was stashed in a new Sterilite 27-gallon Industrial Tote. The benefit of this plastic bin over many of the others I have bought for general storage are slots in the lid which allows for strapping the bins securely in place.

All food and water (other than some dry snacks) was stored in the cooler, which doubled as a seat.

The cooler and the plastic bin were strapped down to make sure they won't be flung about in case of emergency braking, quick turns, or rough roads. I bought a tarp which I hoped would be useful both as a clean camp floor as well as to help keep the sleeping platform clean. Bungee cords keep the tarp (folded in half) in place.



The first day started as planned. Up bright and early, both the dog and I enjoy a quick and early breakfast. Load up the 4Runner and off we go. This happens to be the first time any real mileage is being put on the new KO2's, both on- and off-pavement.

After arriving at Marian Campground, the dog and I took a break to stretch out our legs and have a snack. Then it was off to Brush Mountain, where we hit a steep hill with deep ruts that gave us a bit of trouble. It was a great picture taking opportunity though!



With a bit of fun in the dirt under our belt, the dog and I went out for a hike to explore Brush Mountain. After we were done hiking around Brush Mountain, it was already a bit past noon. We then drove east toward San Emigdio Mountain. Along the route one of the maps showed an old quarry, which was our next stop. We would have rested for a while longer after our hike of Brush Mountain, but there were a lot of buzzing insects flying around. Though nothing stung us, it was rather annoying. At the quarry, there were far fewer insects, so we spent a bit more time there just soaking in the view and enjoying the quiet.

The quarry had clearly become an off-road funpark, but after reading horror stories of sharp rocks piercing tires, I was a bit hesitant to spend too much time frolicking in the loose rocks. However, we did drive down through the quarry, and at one point a rock's size surprised me when it lodged itself under the driver's side running board, pushing the board upwards. I reversed off of the rock and the running board popped itself back into shape, but I think this is a sign that rock sliders are needed!

After the break at the quarry, we headed east on the dirt trail along the ridge again. This trail would take us up to the summit of San Emigdio and down it too. By mid-late afternoon, we found a very nice ledge to camp, tucked a bit away from the trail. Here we settled in for the evening.



I was very glad to have packed a plastic folding table. Originally I wasn't sure if it would be necessary, but it was certainly a good idea. There is a surprising amount of dust on everything and having the table meant one more platform to keep items off of the dirt. It's also good for eating, reading and writing.



Lessons Learned
- Find a cooler that is shorter so it is easier to open.
- No need to cross-strap. Keep all straps on one side so it's easy for removal.
- Paper bag is not sturdy enough as a carrying device.
- Need easier access to snacks!
- Dog needs to have his own water bottle for hiking.
- Get rock sliders.
- I really like eating jerky.
- Dust and dirt everywhere. Seriously, everywhere.

[Update 2017] In retrospect, I had very little idea what I was doing, I just wanted to get out and be disconnected for a weekend. I didn't air down the tires and drove around with the rear hatch window open thinking it'd be nice to have extra air flow. I don't go off road with the rear hatch window open anymore because of the amount of dust that flows through there. Other windows remain open for the dog though, so there's always still plenty of dirt and dust. Items still get strapped down but now I have a system for where I pack things for easier access (i.e., snacks get their own small bin and extra water is stored under the platform).

Perhaps it's the nostalgia speaking, but this area remains one of my favorite places.

Big Bear Camping Trip with T4R

[Written in 2016]Oddly enough, I found myself with a three-day weekend for Columbus Day, which I wanted to take advantage of. So I went wheeling with a group of new friends and while they all went back to the real world to work, I ended up spending an extra night up in the mountains.

This trip found us heading up to the Big Bear area. Traveling with knowledgeable and experienced folks really has its advantages. Just before dawn on Saturday morning, the dog and I set out to meet the group at Green Valley Lake. Saturday would be a full day of wheeling, and then settling into camp. Sunday would be a shorter day of wheeling as the rest of the group then made the trek home. That worked out well for me since I like to set up camp earlier in the afternoon while there is still plenty of light (and warmth). Monday would be a short day of hiking and then heading home.



The map shows (more or less) the route that was planned for Saturday. A great mixture of easy fire roads up to and including difficult black diamond trails that had us rock crawling. Mapping software is the Gaia app, which I highly recommend for its ease of use and ability to use maps offline. It is easy to map your route on your computer, then upload to your phone or tablet. Certain shortcomings is lack of ability to measure length of the route and the loss of differently marked dropped pins once uploaded to the phone (all dropped pins are just dropped pins). Maybe I'm doing something wrong here but overall it's still a very powerful app that is incredibly useful. It also has the ability to download maps (user-set areas) for use offline, when there is no cell reception. I always use this in conjunction with paper maps, not as a full replacement.

Offroading with a group of very experienced folks was a lot of fun and a great learning experience. I learned that the 4Runner's capabilities are a bit limited by the lack of a rear locker, so that's now on the shopping list. Picking lines, much like racing lines on a track, is also very important. With stock suspension and no lift, it's especially important for me right now. The running boards took a little more damage, which seems like that will become a regular theme.



A long day of wheeling was tiring for the dog though. At times, it got pretty rough and I think he was a bit frightened, sometimes trying to climb down into my footwell. He's probably a bit too big to fit down there even without me sitting there, let alone trying to drive. He made himself comfortable in the passenger seat and there were a handful of times when he kicked the transmission into neutral. I might need a net to separate the front seats from the rest of the cabin.

While wheeling was a ton of fun (two days' worth), the relaxing for camp was still the highlight of the trip. Camp on Saturday night was with the group at a campsite, but Sunday night the dog and I were on our own.

This camping trip also marked the first time I tried cooking at camp. Having a hot meal to end the day is definitely a nice luxury! I used a small Jet Boil kit for all my cooking needs. Definitely good for a one- or two-person trip, but if you're cooking for any more people, you'll likely need a bigger and hotter stove.



Sunday night found us above 8000' elevation, near the top of Butler peak, where we settled down to camp at an uneven spot along the edge of the mountain. With no suitable rocks to put under the truck, I had to sleep at a slant. But the view was worth the trouble. The top of Butler peak has a fire lookout, where the volunteers have a spectacular 360 degree view of everything around them, and help report fires hopefully before they get out of control. Another worthwhile trip!

At the recommendation of the volunteer at Butler peak, we trekked back down and got to Big Bear Discovery Center, where the helpful folks then directed the dog and I to an 8 mile hike up Bertha peak. Along that hike, we came across the Pacific Crest Trail. Unlike the top of Butler peak, Bertha peak did not have an awe inspiring spot at the top; rather, it had a big communications tower.

Then it was finally time to head home!

[Update 2017] This was my first trip with fellow forum members here, and certainly was not my last. The folks in the SoCal Regional Forum organize a number of trips, some quick day runs and some weekend camping trips. Over the past year I've met more friendly folks than I can remember. Along the way I've picked up some useful tips and tricks for both camping and wheeling.

Taco Whip Mod Installation

Parts needed:
1. Antenna
2. Antenna Assembly

Simplified instructions:
- Take out your radio. Unplug the antenna wire.
- Peel back the fender liner. There are a few screws and a few plastic clips.
- Contort your body to get up under the fender to remove the antenna pieces and motor. More screws to undo here.
- Find the hole where you will run the antenna wire through to your radio. It has a rubber basket. Make a mental note of this hole.
- Screw your new antenna, etc. in place.
- Put the fender liner back on.
- Blast the radio and have fun wheeling.


More detailed, real instructions.

[Update 2017] Recently I noticed that my antenna was a little loose - I was able to easily hand twist it off. I don't think it should be that easy. I wonder if a little bit of loctite will keep it tightly in place? Will try.