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Senior Member
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,633
Real Name: Macho Nacho
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,633
Real Name: Macho Nacho
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Just came across this and haven't had a chance to read it through yet (between conference calls that is). Curious to know what some of you guys, like
@ ndcent
think about this:
A Few Questions for Those Upset by the Zimmerman Verdict
Quote:
A Few Questions for Those
Upset by the Zimmerman Verdict
(This survey takes 5-10 minutes to complete)
Last Updated: 7/23/2013, 1:26 AM PST
Please Note: This survey does NOT include a comprehensive list of all the evidence in the case. Nor does it cover the well-known facts. It is not a scientific poll of any kind. It is primarily focused on facts that contradict the narrative presented by the news media. The purpose is to highlight just how many facts you probably didn't know because they were ignored or widely misreported.
Here's some quick background:
The primary issue in the Zimmerman Trial was whether there was enough evidence to conclude that Zimmerman may have legitimately acted in self-defense. During the trial, it wasn't necessary for the defense team to absolutely prove that Zimmerman acted in self-defense -- just that there was enough evidence (or lack of contrary evidence) to believe it was reasonably possible.
Zimmerman's defense claim is basically this:
Zimmerman was in his car when he spotted Martin acting strange (wandering in the rain and staring at the houses), so he called the police. After seeing Zimmerman in his car, Martin started running off down the walkway between some of the buildings. Zimmerman then got out of his car but lost sight of Martin after a few moments. He continued in the same direction as Martin for a few hundred feet either to try to see where Martin went or to check the street name to give an address to the police (or both).
Zimmerman says he lost sight of Martin, but since the dispatcher advised him not to continue following, he started walking back to meet the police. Martin then approached him from behind and said "Yo, you got a problem?" Zimmerman said "No" and picked up his phone to call the police. Martin then said "Well, you do now" and punched Zimmerman in the face. Zimmerman was knocked to the ground while Martin got on top of him and started hitting him and bashing his head into the ground. Zimmerman says that when Martin saw his gun he tried to grab it saying "You're going to die tonight, motherf***er" so he only fired the gun in self-defense, believing his life was in danger.
If that version of events was true, then Zimmerman had a legitimate self-defense claim. Martin would not have been justified in attacking him because he could not have reasonably thought he was being threatened by a guy walking back to his car, especially after he responded with "No" when Martin asked "You got a problem?"
If, however, Zimmerman was lying about what happened and had actually confronted Martin and attacked him first, or intentionally tried to provoke him into fighting, he could not legitimately claim self-defense.
Many people believe, based on limited information gathered from the news media, that Zimmerman must be lying because they believe he was a racist who racially profiled Martin and followed him with the intention of killing him, or at least provoking a fight. Many believe Trayvon Martin was too young or too small to have attacked Zimmerman or that he had no history of violent behavior. They are convinced the jury made the wrong decision.
If you are one of those people, here are a few questions for you!
Keep in mind that if the jury concluded, based on the evidence, there was even a reasonable chance Zimmerman's version of events was true, they were obligated to find him "not guilty".
Please Also Note: Nothing in this survey is meant to suggest that Trayvon Martin deserved to die. It doesn't prove he did anything. Nor does it prove anything about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. It's is merely evidence that sheds light on the plausibility of Zimmerman's version of events, whether there was "reasonable doubt", whether or not Zimmerman was, in fact, racist, and whether the individuals and facts were portrayed accurately by the news media.
1. Do you think the jury in the George Zimmerman trial was right to find him "Not Guilty"?
Yes No
2. Were you aware of the fact that Zimmerman never mentioned Martin's race until he was asked about it by the dispatcher?
Transcript of George Zimmerman's Call to the Police Yes No
3. Did you ever see or hear anything about NBC editing the audio of George Zimmerman's call the police in order to make him sound racist?
Here's the video:
Yes No
4. Were you aware of the fact that this widely distributed photo of George Zimmerman was taken in 2005 when he was 22 years old (6 years before the incident)?
Yes No
5. This was photo of Zimmerman on the night of incident. Had you ever seen this photo?
Yes No
6. Were you aware of the fact that this widely-seen photo of Trayvon Martin looking like a child, was NOT what Trayvon looked like at the time of the incident?
Yes No
7. Were you aware of the fact that Trayvon was actually 17 years old at the time of the incident?
A review of the evidence released in the Trayvon Martin case | Tampa Bay Times Yes No
8. Were you aware of the fact that Trayvon was nearly 6-feet tall and 158 pounds according to the coroner's report?
A review of the evidence released in the Trayvon Martin case | Tampa Bay Times Yes No
9. These are 2 photos of Trayvon from closer to the time of the incident. Did you ever see these photos?
George Zimmerman's defense... - Trayvon Martin shirtless - OrlandoSentinel.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin Yes No
10. This photo of Trayvon was taken 9 days before the incident. Did you ever see this photo?
snopes.com: Trayvon Martin Photos Yes No
11. Did you ever see these photos from Trayvon's Facebook page?
Yes No
12. This is a photo of Trayvon from the surveillance camera at the 7-Eleven a few minutes before he was killed. Did you ever see this photo?
Yes No
13. Were you aware of the fact that, at the time of the incident, Trayvon was serving a ten day suspension from school for getting caught with a marijuana pipe and an empty bag containing marijuana residue?
SANFORD: Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com Yes No
14. In October, 2011, 4 months before he was killed, Trayvon was caught on a security camera writing graffiti on a school door. When his backpack was searched by a police officer looking for the graffiti marker, the officer found 12 pieces of women's jewelry (silver wedding bands and diamond earrings), a man's watch and a flathead screwdriver the officer described as a “burglary tool”. The jewelry and watch matched a description of items stolen during a recent burglary of a house about a half-mile from the school.
Did you ever hear anything about this incident?
SANFORD: Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com Yes No
15. Were you aware of the fact that text messages retrieved from Trayvon's cellphone show him talking to someone about selling a firearm?
Zimmerman defense hopes cellphone pics show Trayvon Martin as... | www.wftv.com Yes No
16. Did you ever see or hear anything about this text message sequence taken from Trayvon's phone in which he brags about fighting and says he's not going to stop?
MARTIN: Cause man dat nigga snitched on me
FRIEND: Bae y you always fightinqq man, you got suspended?
MARTIN: Naw we thumped afta skool in a duckd off spot
FRIEND: Ohh, Well Damee
MARTIN: I lost da 1st round  but won da 2nd nd 3rd ...
FRIEND: Ohhh So It Wass 3 Rounds? Damn well at least yu wonn lol but yuu needa stop fighting bae Forreal
MARTIN: Nay im not done with fool... he gone hav 2 see me again
FRIEND: Nooo... Stop, yuu waint gonn bee satisified till yuh suspended again, huh?
MARTIN: Naw but he aint breed nuff 4 me, only his nose
Zimmerman defense hopes cellphone pics show Trayvon Martin as... | www.wftv.com Yes No
17. Were you aware of the fact that Trayvon was previously suspended from school for hitting someone?
Zimmerman defense hopes cellphone pics show Trayvon Martin as... | www.wftv.com Yes No
18. Were you aware of the fact that Trayvon's older brother Stephen send him a text message 5 days before he was killed saying "yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver", suggesting Trayvon had tried to assault a bus driver?
Trayvon Martin's ten day suspension - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com Yes No
19. Were you aware of the fact that 2 police investigators testified that Trayvon Martin's father initially told them that the man's voice calling for help on the 911 recording was NOT the voice of his son? (He later said it was his son's voice in his testimony at trial.)
Trayvon Martin's father says it is his son screaming on 911 tape - Los Angeles Times Yes No
20. Were you aware of the fact that Rachel Jeantel, the prosecution's witness who was on the phone with Martin just before he was shot testified that she wasn't sure who's voice it was calling for help on the 911 recording?
Jeantel's testimony: "It could be. Like I said, I don't know but it could be. The dude sound kind of like Trayvon. Trayvon do got that soft voice and that baby voice sometimes, so it could be, I don't know."
Key witness recounts Trayvon Martin's final phone call - CNN.com Yes No
21. Were you aware of the fact that Rachel Jeantel said she warned Trayvon Martin on the phone that the man following him might be a gay rapist and that Trayvon was freaked out by it just moments before his altercation with Zimmerman?
Yes No
22. Were you aware of the fact that 2 eye witnesses said they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman during the struggle before the shots were fired?
George Zimmerman Was Beaten, Two Prosecution Witnesses Say - ABC News Yes No
23. Were you aware of the fact that Zimmerman's medical records from the day after the incident confirmed he had a broken (fractured) nose, two black eyes and lacerations on the back of his head?
(Note that the prosecution and some news reports claimed he did not have a broken nose, apparently believing that, because he appeared to have a straight septum, that meant his nose was not broken. However, the medical report said it was a "closed fracture", which is considered a "broken nose" and the attending physician's assistant confirmed at the trial that he indeed had a broken nose, despite the apparently straight septum.)
George Zimmerman Medical Report Sheds Light on Injuries After Trayvon Martin Shooting - ABC News Yes No
24. Did you ever see any of these photos of Zimmerman from the night of the incident?
Yes No
25. If you believe that it was actually Zimmerman who was on top during the struggle on the ground, have you ever considered how he got the injuries on the back of his head? Yes No
26. Have you ever seen this map (or any similar map) of the area where the confrontation took place?
Yes No
27. Were you aware that the total distance Zimmerman walked after leaving his truck was only 200 to 300 feet? Yes No
28. Have you ever seen this police video in which Zimmerman gives his explantation of what happened to investigators?
Yes No
29. Were you aware of the fact that, contrary to what was widely reported, Zimmerman never said "f***ing coons" on the audio recording of his call to the police? (What he actually said was said "f***ing punks". Even the prosecution admitted this at the trial.)
George Zimmerman?s lawyer opens with claim Trayvon Martin attacked his client: ?There are no monsters here? - NY Daily News Yes No
30. Did you ever hear about this separate CNN audio analysis of Zimmerman's call that confirms he said "punks"?
Yes No
31. Were you aware of the fact that the FBI also investigated the case and, after interviewing nearly three dozen people, found no evidence that Zimmerman was the least bit racist?
FBI records: agents found no evidence that Zimmerman was racist | McClatchy Yes No
32. Were you aware of the fact that Zimmerman is half Peruvian?
Ignored by media: Zimmerman voted for Obama, tutored black kids - Wilmington Conservative | Examiner.com Yes No
33. Were you aware of the fact that, in 2004, Zimmerman and a black friend started a business together (an Allstate insurance office)?
Ignored by media: Zimmerman voted for Obama, tutored black kids - Wilmington Conservative | Examiner.com Yes No
34. Were you aware of the fact that Zimmerman took a black girl to his high-school prom?
Ignored by media: Zimmerman voted for Obama, tutored black kids - Wilmington Conservative | Examiner.com Yes No
35. Were you aware of the fact that Zimmerman was a registered Democrat who voted for Obama?
Ignored by media: Zimmerman voted for Obama, tutored black kids - Wilmington Conservative | Examiner.com Yes No
36. Were you aware of the fact that, in 2010, Zimmerman helped organize a Sanford City Hall community forum to protest the beating of a homeless black man who was beaten up by a white kid?
Family friends: Zimmerman wants to go to law school - San Jose Mercury News Yes No
37. Were you aware of the fact that, in the months just before the incident, the gated community had experienced several burglaries and break-ins and that, in several of the cases, there were witnesses who said the robbers were young black men?
George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting | Reuters Yes No
38. Did you ever hear any of the following facts?
Residents in the said gated community said there had been dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes
7 months before the incident a black teenager stole a bicycle off the Zimmermans' porch
5 months before the Trayvon incident two young black men broke into the house of Olivia Bertalan, Zimmerman's neighbor, while she was in the house. She hid upstairs and called the police while the two men tried to steal her TV. When the police arrived, they fled. One of them ran through the Zimmermans' yard.
The next month, because of all the burglaries, several residents of the neighborhood asked the neighborhood association to create a neighborhood watch and Zimmerman was asked to run it.
The next month, two more houses in the neighborhood were robbed.
3 weeks before the incident, Zimmerman spotted a young black man looking into the windows of a neighbor's house. He called the police and said "I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally." By the time the police finally arrived, the man was gone.
4 days later another house was burglarized. Witnesses said two of the robbers were black teenagers. One, who had prior burglary convictions, was soon caught with a laptop stolen from the house.
Zimmerman's black neighbor was quoted as saying "Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK? There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood. That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
Most of the perpetrators of the prior burglaries and thefts were apparently never caught. (All sources we could find only mention one being caught.)
George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting | Reuters Yes No
39. Two weeks after the last burglary, Zimmerman saw Travyon Martin walking through the gated community. Because Martin was visiting from out of town Zimmerman says he didn't recongnize him as a resident. Zimmerman then called the police saying:
"Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy [near] Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's walking around, looking about...He was just staring...He's just walking around the area looking at all the houses...Something's wrong with him."
Did you ever see or hear this part of Zimmerman's phone call in which he describes being suspicious of Martin because of his behavior?
Transcript of George Zimmerman's Call to the Police Yes No
40. Several media reports have mentioned that it was a violation of the Neighborhood Watch rules to carry a gun. However, Zimmerman was not on Neighborhood Watch duty that night. He was simply on his way to the grocery store when he saw Martin, so he was not in violation of the rules. Were you aware of this fact?
Zimmerman Reenactment.mpeg - YouTube Yes No
41. Were you aware of the fact that, just before Zimmerman started following Martin on foot, the police dispatcher told him "Just let me know if this guy does anything else" and then when Martin started running the dispatcher said "He's running? Which way is he running" (which could reasonably be taken as an instruction to follow him and find out)?
Transcript of George Zimmerman's Call to the Police Yes No
42. Were you aware of the fact that the police dispatcher did NOT tell Zimmerman to stay in his car?
(Zimmerman was already proceding on foot in the direction Martin had run. When he told this to the dispatcher, the dispatcher simply said, "We don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman said "OK". He and the dispatcher then discussed where he should meet with the police who were almost there. Zimmerman claims he then started walking back to meet the police. The audio, including the reduced pace if his breathing, seems to be consistent with his claim that he was walking at that point.)
Raw Audio: View "Raw Audio - 911 Call - George Zimmerman" Audio at Mediaite.com
Transcript: Transcript of George Zimmerman's Call to the Police Yes No
43. Were you aware of the fact that Zimmerman passed a police Voice Stress Analysis (lie detector) test the day after the incident?
(During the test Zimmerman was asked, "Did you confront the guy you shot?", to which Zimmerman answered, "No." He was also asked, "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?", to which Zimmerman answered, "Yes." The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth" in the examination, and Zimmerman was classified as "No Deception Indicated (NDI)")
George Zimmerman told truth about Trayvon Martin shooting, documents state | WJLA.com
George Zimmerman Passed Police Lie Detector Test Day After Trayvon Martin Killing | The Smoking Gun Yes No
44. During the interrogation of Zimmerman at the police station that night, one of the detectives told him that the entire incident had been caught on surveillance video. The detective was bluffing, but Zimmerman didn't know that. The detective said Zimmerman's reaction was "Thank God". Did you ever hear about this?
Martin v. Zimmerman: The media at its worst | Crosscut.com Yes No
45. Were you aware of the fact that the Zimmerman case had nothing to do with the Florida "Stand Your Ground" law?
(It was a simple question of self-defense. Every state allows for the use of lethal force when a person has a reasonable fear that their life is in danger. The Stand Your Ground law did not apply here.)
Sorry, the Zimmerman Case Still Has Nothing to Do With 'Stand Your Ground' - Hit & Run : Reason.com Yes No
46. Are you aware that our criminal justice system requires a jury to believe that a defendant is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt in order to convict him? Yes No
47. Do you think it's likely Trayvon Martin was the one who confronted Zimmerman, and attacked him and Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense? Yes No
48. Do you think even possible that Trayvon Martin confronted Zimmerman and attacked him and Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense? Yes No
49. If you think it is possible (within reason) that Martin initiated the confrontation, attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman acted in legitimate self-defense, do you realize that possiblity would require you, as a juror, to acquit him of all charges (even if you think Zimmerman acted foolishly to follow Martin)? Yes No
50. Do you think the jury was right to find George Zimmerman "Not Guilty"? Yes No
51. From which of the following sources do you get your news?
Network News (NBC, CBS, ABC) Right-leaning websites/blogs
CNN Left-leaning websites/blogs
Fox News Links posted by friends on Facebook
MSNBC Twitter
PBS Late Night talk shows (Leno, Letterman, Conan, etc.)
NPR The Daily Show
Talk Radio (other than NPR) The Colbert Report
Newspapers Talking to friends
Drudge Report Other
52. Do you think most of your news sources did a good job of presenting all the facts in this case? Yes No
53. Do you have any comments about this survey?
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