Moving from Subaru to 3rd Gen 4R - few concerns

Hello, all.

I recently sold my Legacy GT in favor of something for michigan winters offering more room for my family and higher ground clearence. I'm shopping for a 4R now - but just read, except from those w/ the rear-lock switch - i'd have a truck with open front and rear difs. I'm a little scared of that really - my legacy had a rear LSD, viscous center, with open front dif - I found that to be probably the minimum i'd want through the winter. Further, I have a few acres which get a little wet in the winter - I like to drive out there and do shooting at times. Already had my wife's F150 SCrew stuck in the muck; was hoping the 4R would have an easier time (caviat: Truck has crap A/T's - I understand even the rear LSD in the F150 wouldn't help as the tires fill with mud; wouldn't expect the 4R to do much better w/o mud-terrain type tires).

But...Open front and rear Difs. Is this truck as capable as I think I might want - not planning on wheeling; just trails, snow, ice, and occasionally soggy farmland.

Will adopt blizzaks for winter, as well.

I've youtubed a bunch - but rarely find a vid showing a 4Runner doing something pretty awesome where the author of the vid indicates they're still on the open front and rears (vs. some sorta swap to LSDs which may be around).

So - Anyone else a little cautious of choosing the 4R vs something else, because of the front and rear difs? Am I worried about nothing? If so, tell me. I can take it.



Thanks very much

background: I cut my teeth in a 77 International ScoutII; tens of thousands of miles in HMMWVs, and a few in a Bradley...

Remember people used to drive these around. It used to be RWD only, crappy tires, and undeveloped roads.

A subi will do better on the roads. On forest roads I blast past subis. The 4runner will far out perform a subi there. Aside from a Jeep, off the shelf, a 99-00 limited w/ locker is going to be more capable than most things you can buy.

thanks - I'll be on roads mostly - although live 1.5 miles from a 'paved' road. What I 'hear' you saying is, in terms of driving on a plowed-but-snowy/icy road I'd likely "do" better in the subi w/ blizzaks than the 4R in 4Hi w/ the same tire? I'd sacrifice some measure of 'ability' to gain more room for the family and ground clearence?

btw - I grew up in Renton, WA

re: Jeep - would really like to keep away from a domestic; buying one at this price-point/model year scares me a bit.

The ground clearance will more than make up for the diffs when the going gets tough compared to any Subaru. I'd recommend a '99+ with multimode transfercase so you have 2WD/4WD and AWD functions, rather than just 2WD/4WD. From there obviously one with the rear locker would be sweet, but you can also add something like a trutrac LSD to the rear diff as well to aid with winter traction. If you are going to wheel it, then things like air lockers could be options as well.

detroitdarin said:

thanks - I'll be on roads mostly - although live 1.5 miles from a 'paved' road. What I 'hear' you saying is, in terms of driving on a plowed-but-snowy/icy road I'd likely "do" better in the subi w/ blizzaks than the 4R in 4Hi w/ the same tire? I'd sacrifice some measure of 'ability' to gain more room for the family and ground clearence?

btw - I grew up in Renton, WA

re: Jeep - would really like to keep away from a domestic; buying one at this price-point/model year scares me a bit.

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I think a plowed road a subi wins. AWD mode in the MM trans 4runner is pretty nice but high CG isn't going to beat the same in a subi. 4runners had an AWD mode from 99 on (see 99 upgrades sticky). A 4runner gets more places, rough roads can be taken much faster, but I am not going to lie, a newer subi forester would get me to 95% of the places Im going.


I like the 4runner mostly because they are bit chin. Driving a forester would damage me emotionally.


Renton: I'm sorry to hear that. =} I live there now (no commute).

A lot of it comes down to tires. I ran blizzaks on my Runner last winter(as you stated you plan on doing) and it was unstoppable. In fact last winter in several different scenarios in ice, snow and slush I can only remember using 4wd once and that was getting out of a parking lot with about 2 1/2 feet of rutted hard frozen snow and ice...something a Subaru has no business being in. But the tires that were on it when I bought it(Firestone wilderness ATs) sucked ass in the snow. So tires make all the difference. Also, the multi-mode 4wd on the 99-00 with the AWD option is nice in the snow and ice. Put a good set of ATs on a Runner and it won't get stuck in a muddy field like an F150 pickup.

I was on the same boat as you. I came from a STi to a 3rd gen 4R.
I ran yoko ice guards in the winter and the STi was capable of anything in up to 6" of snow on the roads.
It's not too often we get more then that at one time, but in the 4R's case, it's obviously much taller and even without the rear diff lock, my truck can get through about anything I've put in front of it (on the road that is). I don't go on trails too much if ever, but I can certainly haul a lot more with the 4R. I love it in that aspect, but I sure do miss the raw power of my STi.

FWIW, my 4runner does equally as well, if not better, off-road than some of my buddies jeeps. And I don't have an E-locker. We recently went to an ORV park, and there was nothing the Jeeps went through that I didn't.

IanB said:

The ground clearance will more than make up for the diffs when the going gets tough compared to any Subaru. I'd recommend a '99+ with multimode transfercase so you have 2WD/4WD and AWD functions, rather than just 2WD/4WD. From there obviously one with the rear locker would be sweet, but you can also add something like a trutrac LSD to the rear diff as well to aid with winter traction. If you are going to wheel it, then things like air lockers could be options as well.

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Thanks much - that's the year I'm looking for. The trutrac - Will google that. I'm very sure I'd want at least a LSD on the rear axle. No plans to really wheel it - but...when the zombies attack I'd probably pick the Yota over the F150 as the bug-out vehicle.

Brilliant said:

I think a plowed road a subi wins. AWD mode in the MM trans 4runner is pretty nice but high CG isn't going to beat the same in a subi. 4runners had an AWD mode from 99 on (see 99 upgrades sticky). A 4runner gets more places, rough roads can be taken much faster, but I am not going to lie, a newer subi forester would get me to 95% of the places Im going.


I like the 4runner mostly because they are bit chin. Driving a forester would damage me emotionally.


Renton: I'm sorry to hear that. =} I live there now (no commute).

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For sure will find one with the AWD mode - thanks much.

fwiw, I grew up a boeing-kid. Lived up on the hill - opposite renton highlands; near fairwood if you know that area.

GSPRunner said:

A lot of it comes down to tires. I ran blizzaks on my Runner last winter(as you stated you plan on doing) and it was unstoppable. In fact last winter in several different scenarios in ice, snow and slush I can only remember using 4wd once and that was getting out of a parking lot with about 2 1/2 feet of rutted hard frozen snow and ice...something a Subaru has no business being in. But the tires that were on it when I bought it(Firestone wilderness ATs) sucked ass in the snow. So tires make all the difference. Also, the multi-mode 4wd on the 99-00 with the AWD option is nice in the snow and ice. Put a good set of ATs on a Runner and it won't get stuck in a muddy field like an F150 pickup.

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Have you tried any balast in the cargo area? I picked up a shur-trax water bladder for the pick-up (in addition to dedicated snows). Was going to be our winter vehicle since selling the 'bru - but I'm starting a new "emergency essential" job - if the winter gets awesome (lots of deep snow) my family will need something while I'm at work.

Am a firm believer in tires. True story: MOST michiganders I meet are tire ignorant. When talking with neighbors (back when I had them; before living in the country) I'd too-often hear "Well, I don't need snow tires; I have a Four wheel drive!". Despite my efforts to explain 2wd w/ snows = better in every category (except maybe initial starting) than AWD on even all-seasons, they'd scoff and puff-up. (sigh).

Moves2Music said:

I was on the same boat as you. I came from a STi to a 3rd gen 4R.
I ran yoko ice guards in the winter and the STi was capable of anything in up to 6" of snow on the roads.
It's not too often we get more then that at one time, but in the 4R's case, it's obviously much taller and even without the rear diff lock, my truck can get through about anything I've put in front of it (on the road that is). I don't go on trails too much if ever, but I can certainly haul a lot more with the 4R. I love it in that aspect, but I sure do miss the raw power of my STi.

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Definitely miss the power of my legacy already (VF52 @ 22psi, 740cc injectors, TMIC, Up/Down, Pro-tune). But you hit it for me - more important now for me to ensure - or do my best to ensure - my family and our stuff can get around if we ever get a decent winter around here (been here 3 years, so far gravely disappointed in michigan winters. Better than Western WA or Alabama (my other places of residence over the years) - but I'd love a solid foot of snow sticking around for weeks.

BlackCat914 said:

FWIW, my 4runner does equally as well, if not better, off-road than some of my buddies jeeps. And I don't have an E-locker. We recently went to an ORV park, and there was nothing the Jeeps went through that I didn't.

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Jeeps really do go well off road? I've always thought that was more marketing than ability. I've seen YT vids "comparing" them - but almost nobody mentions the tires each has.

So - what I'm gathering here is: Sure the 4R has shortfalls - NICE to see a site not chock-full of fanbois - but looking holistically, the truck would likely meet my needs.

Thank you all, really!

Not to knock 4runners but have you considered landcruisers? More room for the family and full time 4wd.

detroitdarin said:

So - what I'm gathering here is: Sure the 4R has shortfalls - NICE to see a site not chock-full of fanbois - but looking holistically, the truck would likely meet my needs.

Thank you all, really!

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We all love our trucks quite a bit, for the most part -we're a solid group here, levelheaded, practical, and ingenious... Welcome to the forums!

Get a 2001 or 2002 4runner. They do not have rear diff locks but they do have AWD with VTRAC and VSC. It is electronic diff locker sort of.


If a wheel starts to slip, the ECU will apply brakes to that wheel. It would be seamless to the driver. Good tires and 01-02 4runner will be unstoppable in any weather.

cj80cruiser said:

Not to knock 4runners but have you considered landcruisers? More room for the family and full time 4wd.

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I have in fact. My brother owned a mid-1980s? LC. It's on the list; but finding one in a condition I trust, at my price point...that's iffy.

farmerjon said:

We all love our trucks quite a bit, for the most part -we're a solid group here, levelheaded, practical, and ingenious... Welcome to the forums!

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Thanks!

Singtoe said:

Get a 2001 or 2002 4runner. They do not have rear diff locks but they do have AWD with VTRAC and VSC. It is electronic diff locker sort of.


If a wheel starts to slip, the ECU will apply brakes to that wheel. It would be seamless to the driver. Good tires and 01-02 4runner will be unstoppable in any weather.

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I've read about that feature - defininately if I can find one in my price range

Thanks again!

The subaru is pretty much the best weapon for light snow and ice on a road surface, but I think with good tires, the 4Runner should get you where you need to go just fine. Back when my '84 pickup was still bone stock (no lockers) with BFG AT's, I managed to pull my neighbors out of the ditch in a blizzard on multiple occasions with no trouble. Low range is really useful for deep snow. Also if you let some air out of those blizzaks, you should be golden.