861 vs 891 vs Superflex Coils for rear weight

M

Mutant

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My Toytec 3" lift coils are sagging in the rear from excessive weight. Steel bumper, 300lbs of cargo, and sometimes towing a side by side ATV or small enclosed trailer.

This truck is used on and off road. Sometimes pretty hairy terrain. Can anyone with experience with these coils share your experience?

My front end is lifted 3". Would like to have a slight rake or sit level. Right now I have a slight reverse rake.

I asked Toytec and they haven't been super clear about which coil is right, having recommended 861s, 891s, and mentioned that Superflex may work too.

My understanding is that 861s may be TOO much lift. I saw another thread where one guys rear end was at about 4.5" of lift. I don't want that much. Max of 4" empty is what I'm shooting for.

Any suggestions?
 
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I am no expert but i have a hunch most who have been around a while and tried it all will suggest air bags.
 
There are a LOT of threads on this.. just search it out and you will find what you need. (Hint hint..861)
 
Seems like this same question pops up every couple months, but the bottom line is- there is no perfect spring.
There isn't a coil that will give you 4" lift empty, but also carry 450lbs well.
I agree with @Chim, in that the 861 will be your best option. You might have to budge a little on your 4" max lift when empty. If you don't want to budge on that, the Superflex with airbags might be your ticket.
 
Tyler James Inc said:
Seems like this same question pops up every couple months, but the bottom line is- there is no perfect spring.
There isn't a coil that will give you 4" lift empty, but also carry 450lbs well.
I agree with @Chim, in that the 861 will be your best option. You might have to budge a little on your 4" max lift when empty. If you don't want to budge on that, the Superflex with airbags might be your ticket.
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This makes sense since the threads I've found searching offer so many different conflicting results/opinions.

I have Airlift 1000 air bags and they leak at stem. Don't wanna rely on bags anymore. I'd probably end up sagging again with the Superflex.

Sounds like I'll be buying 861s (and extended brake lines, which I was hoping to avoid).

Would so much rake affect driveline geometry on the hwy if I'm running unloaded with my butt up in the air? Because from the other threads it's sounds like I may be sitting empty at 3" lift front & 4.5" lift rear with the 861s.

Thanks for the input
 
I haven't heard of driveline issues with the higher lifts, but I can't give any personal experience on that. I've had no issues at all with the 3.75" springs, and I wouldn't think .75" or so more would cause issues either.
 
Ok. I didn't think so. But am wondering if there's something I'm not thinking of...any issues that could occur from having possibly up to 2" or even 3" difference in lift between front and rear.
 
Mutant said:
Ok. I didn't think so. But am wondering if there's something I'm not thinking of...any issues that could occur from having possibly up to 2" or even 3" difference in lift between front and rear.
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I had 891 and followed the recommendation on this board about going to 861 and I ended up having driveline vibrations after putting about 1,000 miles on them. I swapped back to the 891's and vibrations went away.
 
i had superflex, and i wanted to like them. But I didnt. I still had driver side lean, even though toytec stated one coil is longer then the other. And they did not handle weight at all. Switched to ome861.

the superflex are good without a bumper. Thats my opinion
 
Go 861's if you've got a lot of weight in the back, carry a lot of gear, or like a good raked stance. I've got 861's and my rig is about as heavy as they come at this point. It sits good unloaded, and even with a FULL load I still sit with a slight rake. In my opinion 861s are the only spring up to the task of carrying weight. My only suggestion is to wrap the top progressive coils in "spiral cable wrap". I had a terrible noise from mine around 40mph where the coils would vibrate and resonate off each other. I put some of this on yesterday and the noise went away! It would have been so much easier to do off the truck though.
 
Mutant said:
Ok. I didn't think so. But am wondering if there's something I'm not thinking of...any issues that could occur from having possibly up to 2" or even 3" difference in lift between front and rear.
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I doubt your rake would be THAT drastic.

But, from the toytec website:

ToyTec Superflex Rear Coils (96-02 4Runner)

ToyTec Superflex Rear Lift coil springs offer a great ride quality and increased rear flex off-road while providing extra carrying capacity.
These coils are custom made to our high quality of standards.
Side specific to avoid typical driver side lean that most 3rd Gen 4Runners have.
With 10 coil winds these rear coils will handle more load without sagging and still maintain a great ride!

3.75"+ rear lift with stock rear weight.
3.25" rear lift with 200lbs over stock rear weight.
3" rear lift with 400lbs over stock rear weight.
 
I have superflex with a rear plate bumper, swing out w/ 33" MT a cargo box and a heavy sub. I sit with a touch of rake so just over 3" now... I do like my superflex coils however much more weight and they might start sagging... I do not know exactly how much weight I have in the back but it has to be close to 250-300... as others have said the 861 would give the best weight carrying but I think the superflex would be like your current toytec but with .5-.75" more height I think. Not sure how their spring rates compare.
 
Unner said:
Go 861's if you've got a lot of weight in the back, carry a lot of gear, or like a good raked stance. I've got 861's and my rig is about as heavy as they come at this point. It sits good unloaded, and even with a FULL load I still sit with a slight rake. In my opinion 861s are the only spring up to the task of carrying weight. My only suggestion is to wrap the top progressive coils in "spiral cable wrap". I had a terrible noise from mine around 40mph where the coils would vibrate and resonate off each other. I put some of this on yesterday and the noise went away! It would have been so much easier to do off the truck though.
Click to expand...


I just ordered 861s, extended rear brake lines, and some 20mm spiral cable wrap. Thanks a bunch for the tip about vibration. That would have driven me nuts. This is a work truck so everything needs to be right.

Ive found other threads on vibration after installing 861s. But it seems no one can identify the cause. If cable wrap really solves the problem we should spread the word and save people a lot of headache.
 
Mutant said:
I just ordered 861s, extended rear brake lines, and some 20mm spiral cable wrap. Thanks a bunch for the tip about vibration. That would have driven me nuts. This is a work truck so everything needs to be right.

Ive found other threads on vibration after installing 861s. But it seems no one can identify the cause. If cable wrap really solves the problem we should spread the word and save people a lot of headache.
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Now think about lowering bump stops, extending sway bar links, adjustable panhard and/or panhard lift drop brackets.
 
Unner said:
In my opinion 861s are the only spring up to the task of carrying weight. My only suggestion is to wrap the top progressive coils in "spiral cable wrap". I had a terrible noise from mine around 40mph where the coils would vibrate and resonate off each other. I put some of this on yesterday and the noise went away! It would have been so much easier to do off the truck though.
Click to expand...
The 851's hold weight just as good and are not progressive. Those are what I'm running. Both 851 and 861's have a 220lb spring rate but the 861 is 1/4 inch taller and the 851 has 1mm thicker bar diameter.
 
Mutant said:
How much of that is really necessary?
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With tall coils 4"+ you can over compress the rear shock blowing them out. Also risk of a coil popping out on trail with stock bump stops and tall coils.

Stock sway bar links will hold up travel. They will break I the trail when they start stretching. 2nd gen 4runner rear links are 1" longer and work great. I run moog in the rear.

With 4"+ rear lift the panhard will be at a drastic angle causing bump steer to be a lot worse. The rear axle will also be pushed over about 3/4" with that lift.

I would do the first 2 mods. Drive it without panhard adjustment, see how it drives and go from there.
 
OP, 20mm wrap might be a little big. The 861 coils are only 16mm diameter. Just something to look into.

The vibration seems to happen with some progressive springs and not on others. If you really load the back down there will be no vibration because the coils are compressed into each other. I didn't hear it once one my Moab trip, but before and after with just my normal load it was still there.

sn0wrunner said:
The 851's hold weight just as good and are not progressive. Those are what I'm running. Both 851 and 861's have a 220lb spring rate but the 861 is 1/4 inch taller and the 851 has 1mm thicker bar diameter.
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I always forget about the 851's, but like you said they're almost the same as the 861's.
 
Unner said:
OP, 20mm wrap might be a little big. The 861 coils are only 16mm diameter. Just something to look into.

The vibration seems to happen with some progressive springs and not on others. If you really load the back down there will be no vibration because the coils are compressed into each other. I didn't hear it once one my Moab trip, but before and after with just my normal load it was still there.



I always forget about the 851's, but like you said they're almost the same as the 861's.
Click to expand...


Thanks for letting me know. I cancelled 20mm and ordered 16mm wrap.
 
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