01-08-2018, 02:27 PM
|
#1
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
Frame Rusted Through, Whats my Next Move...?
So here is the run down. I have a 2000 4runner with 210K miles on it and a 5spd manual transmission. The only upgrades have been a 99 suspension swap and an Eaton TruTrack LSD in the rear. I am the second owner and have owned it for the past 10 years and 100k miles. It has nothing wrong with it except now, the frame has rusted through in several spots (live in SE PA) and I spent some of my christmas vacation cutting out the rust and welding in steel inside the frame and more steel on the outside to get it to pass PA inspection (which it did) but overall the frame is pretty compromised.
As I see it, I have a few options:
1. Drive it as is and worry about it next December when i have to inspect it again,
2. Sell it now, and buy some other cheap car to daily drive instead of this (fully disclosing the rust issue of course)
3. Purchase a scrap frame for $500-$1000 and try my hand at a back yard frame swap (no lift, no garage, but i've done engine swaps and rebuilds without one before)
4. Pay local autobody shop about $3,800 to perform a frame replacement.
If I did the swap, i would probably want to throw in some other upgrades such as steel bumpers (front and back are also rusted), replace the clutch (its still original clutch at 210K), perform suspension lift 3" or less due to sagging rear and crappy shocks.
I know it does not make fiscal sense to put $4k into a truck that doesn't sell for that much, but i cannot find a replacement vehicle in that price range that is in as good of condition as my 4runner, aside from the frame.
Whats your opinion, what would you do?
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 02:44 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,350
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,350
|
Do *NOT* pay $4k for a new frame; you can probably get another 3rd gen at that price, and keep your motor/tranny around in case the 'new to you' 3rd gen has issues with either of those. I.e. keep your current truck for parts, minus the frame obviously.
@ TheDurk
did a backyard frame swap due to the same issue. Check out his signature for a link.
If you get another frame that isn't as rusty through another 3rd gen, make sure you protect it this time with something like FluidFilm or POR-15, etc etc (You can find many PA and northeast owner threads on the 3rd gen section here on T4R where people have detailed the preventative measures they have to take continually).
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 02:48 PM
|
#3
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalik
Do *NOT* pay $4k for a new frame; you can probably get another 3rd gen at that price, and keep your motor/tranny around in case the 'new to you' 3rd gen has issues with either of those. I.e. keep your current truck for parts, minus the frame obviously.
@ TheDurk
did a backyard frame swap due to the same issue. Check out his signature for a link.
If you get another frame that isn't as rusty through another 3rd gen, make sure you protect it this time with something like FluidFilm or POR-15, etc etc (You can find many PA and northeast owner threads on the 3rd gen section here on T4R where people have detailed the preventative measures they have to take continually).
|
Yea i know but finding another 3rd gen, with a manual trans, that doesn't also have a rusty frame, or list of other issues is a challenge to say the least. Any decent one i've found, the seller is asking for $8-15k. I guess i have a year to find one, and to look further west, but up in the NE the pickings are slim...
I think this might be a good course of action though overall... just to buy another one.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 04:00 PM
|
#4
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,338
Real Name: Jerod
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Citrus Heights, California
Age: 36
Posts: 7,338
Real Name: Jerod
|
I think your only real options are either to buy a new frame and try a swap, or get a new vehicle. Don't pay a shop to repair the frame on a vehicle that's worth as much or less than the repair itself.
The Durk did swap his frame successfully but it was a very labor intensive job.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 04:07 PM
|
#5
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: nnj
Posts: 134
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: nnj
Posts: 134
|
I live in NNJ by mountain creek off rt 287. I have a 3rd gen that was rear ended, but the frame is straight no rust. Let me know if you want a price on it. I'm still picking a few parts off it but when I'm done we could make something happen potentially. Send me a message
__________________
Alex
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 04:11 PM
|
#6
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamefreakgc
I think your only real options are either to buy a new frame and try a swap, or get a new vehicle. Don't pay a shop to repair the frame on a vehicle that's worth as much or less than the repair itself.
The Durk did swap his frame successfully but it was a very labor intensive job.
|
I clicked through that post and yes, it does look extremely labor intensive. I've seen other frame swap threads and they didn't look any more fun. My biggest fear would be to go through all that work and get rear ended a week later and have it totalled...
Well i'm glad i'm asking and pretty much anyone i've talked to agrees paying for a frame swap would be stupid.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 05:08 PM
|
#7
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 597
|
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 597
|
Potential issue for doing a frame swap is that the VIN on the chassis will not match the VIN on the body or title. I ran into that issue years ago on a CJ5, the Maryland State Police got involved when the vehicle went back for a 2nd inspection and the VIN's didn't match. It ended up being impounded ( at my expense ) and I had to provide documentation for the parts Jeep that I got the frame from.
After proving that I legally owned all of the parts used for the repair, I had to apply for a salvage certificate, have a salvage inspection done, then a regular state inspection done at the MD State Police facility, then apply for a reconstruction title for the vehicle. I eventually got the branded title and was able to tag the Jeep, but it was hands down the biggest headache I've ever dealt with in regards to title work for a vehicle.
I only bring this up because you are basically making a reconstructed vehicle. I don't how how much of a headache it could become for you in PA, it's just something to be aware of. Ideally, at least from a legal standpoint you might be better off using a donor chassis to repair your rusted sections, or use your good drive-train and make the donor vehicle driveable again.
Last edited by 2ndhandyotaman; 01-08-2018 at 05:12 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 05:12 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: new jersey
Posts: 4,830
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: new jersey
Posts: 4,830
|
You can buy a clean auto 4runner. And swap over the manual. How hard can it be ? When you have the donor truck ? Many 5speed swaps done on the forum including my self. I would not spend 4K on a frame. When you can find a good 4runner for that price.
__________________
97 3.4 JDM/5 Speed swap/eLocker Swap/ICON CDC all around/+more.....
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 05:22 PM
|
#9
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndhandyotaman
Potential issue for doing a frame swap is that the VIN on the chassis will not match the VIN on the body or title. I ran into that issue years ago on a CJ5, the Maryland State Police got involved when the vehicle went back for a 2nd inspection and the VIN's didn't match. It ended up being impounded ( at my expense ) and I had to provide documentation for the parts Jeep that I got the frame from.
After proving that I legally owned all of the parts used for the repair, I had to apply for a salvage certificate, have a salvage inspection done, then a regular state inspection done at the MD State Police facility, then apply for a reconstruction title for the vehicle. I eventually got the branded title and was able to tag the Jeep, but it was hands down the biggest headache I've ever dealt with in regards to title work for a vehicle.
I only bring this up because you are basically making a reconstructed vehicle. I don't how how much of a headache it could become for you in PA, it's just something to be aware of. Ideally, at least from a legal standpoint you might be better off using a donor chassis to repair your rusted sections, or use your good drive-train and make the donor vehicle driveable again.
|
Wow, thats something i never considered. Thats another +1 for not trying a frame swap. I'm glad you guys are bringing this stuff up.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 05:25 PM
|
#10
|
Junior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 17
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolelt
You can buy a clean auto 4runner. And swap over the manual. How hard can it be ? When you have the donor truck ? Many 5speed swaps done on the forum including my self. I would not spend 4K on a frame. When you can find a good 4runner for that price.
|
That was going to be my next question was how hard is a manual tranny swap. I really like the manual and i'm finding autos around for pretty cheap. We will be driving down to Orlando at the end of Feb, and i'm looking at craigslist down there at the local cheap 4runners that i could just buy and pull back on a trailer so that is another option.
I think its sounding like keep my truck as a doner and find a decent used one.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 05:36 PM
|
#11
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,417
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,417
|
*If* you do the frame swap and *if* you have reasonable welding skills... buy a cheap rust-free 2WD to start with. Match your year to make sure all the body mounts are the same. Converting a 2WD frame to a 4WD frame involves moving 1 crossmember and will save you thousands in finding a good swap candidate. You can probably sell the engine and trans to make up for it.
OR - do a 4WD swap using your parts on a good southern 2WD truck. Same deal - one crossmember, everything else will bolt in.
-Charlie
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'17 Chevy Volt Premier
'16 Honda Odyssey Elite
Previous: '88 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GE BEAMS, 90 Camry 3S-GTE, 90 Camry DX, '03 WRX wagon, '08 Outback XT
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 06:33 PM
|
#12
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Maine
Posts: 307
|
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Maine
Posts: 307
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndhandyotaman
Potential issue for doing a frame swap is that the VIN on the chassis will not match the VIN on the body or title. I ran into that issue years ago on a CJ5, the Maryland State Police got involved when the vehicle went back for a 2nd inspection and the VIN's didn't match. It ended up being impounded ( at my expense ) and I had to provide documentation for the parts Jeep that I got the frame from.
After proving that I legally owned all of the parts used for the repair, I had to apply for a salvage certificate, have a salvage inspection done, then a regular state inspection done at the MD State Police facility, then apply for a reconstruction title for the vehicle. I eventually got the branded title and was able to tag the Jeep, but it was hands down the biggest headache I've ever dealt with in regards to title work for a vehicle.
I only bring this up because you are basically making a reconstructed vehicle. I don't how how much of a headache it could become for you in PA, it's just something to be aware of. Ideally, at least from a legal standpoint you might be better off using a donor chassis to repair your rusted sections, or use your good drive-train and make the donor vehicle driveable again.
|
Does the annual inspection in Maryland require the shop to compare VINs on the frame and the body of the vehicle? That's pretty extensive.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 06:57 PM
|
#13
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pocono Mountains
Posts: 7,498
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pocono Mountains
Posts: 7,498
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndhandyotaman
Potential issue for doing a frame swap is that the VIN on the chassis will not match the VIN on the body or title. I ran into that issue years ago on a CJ5, the Maryland State Police got involved when the vehicle went back for a 2nd inspection and the VIN's didn't match. It ended up being impounded ( at my expense ) and I had to provide documentation for the parts Jeep that I got the frame from.
After proving that I legally owned all of the parts used for the repair, I had to apply for a salvage certificate, have a salvage inspection done, then a regular state inspection done at the MD State Police facility, then apply for a reconstruction title for the vehicle. I eventually got the branded title and was able to tag the Jeep, but it was hands down the biggest headache I've ever dealt with in regards to title work for a vehicle.
I only bring this up because you are basically making a reconstructed vehicle. I don't how how much of a headache it could become for you in PA, it's just something to be aware of. Ideally, at least from a legal standpoint you might be better off using a donor chassis to repair your rusted sections, or use your good drive-train and make the donor vehicle driveable again.
|
There is no VIN on the frame, surprisingly enough. Just the frame number, which is a glorified model code, not a serial. Not an issue.
Don't tell me it's hidden. I wire-wheeled and POR-15'd every square inch of that frame. NO VIN on old one or new one.
Also, no difference between 5-speed frames and autos. I put an auto on my 5-speed. Only 2WD and 4wd and I think 4-cyl and 6-cyl.
Also, the variations in body mounts by year are no sweat, if you have the mount hardware from the original. The frame itself does not change. They just redesigned the mount hardware. I put an '02 on my 1999.
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 5spd 3.4L V6 4WD(U.S), original '99 Talls in front, OME 906s in back, Hella fogs, Trekmaster shocks in front, Billy in back, no running boards, FIAMM horns, Alpine sound, Michelin LTX M/S2's, owned since new.
'97 HiLux SW4 5spd 4WD(Japan model bought in Brazil assembled in Argentina, very close to a 3.0 4Runner/Surf)
'71 FordWillys Jeep CJ5 (with straight six Ford Maverick 3.0 liter engine--lives in the mountains north of Sao Paulo Brazil)
My Backyard Frame Swap
Last edited by TheDurk; 01-08-2018 at 07:09 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 07:14 PM
|
#14
|
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pocono Mountains
Posts: 7,498
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pocono Mountains
Posts: 7,498
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelevra
Farrrk me, reason enough for not doing a frame swap.
|
Read my post. That is NOT an issue. NO VIN on frame on our trucks.
Here is the list of required VIN locations. Note that the frame is not included.
Quote:
(1) Engine.
(2) Transmission.
(3) Right front fender.
(4) Left front fender.
(5) Hood.
(6) Right front door.
(7) Left front door.
(8) Right rear door.
(9) Left rear door.
(10) Sliding or cargo door(s).
(11) Front bumper.
(12) Rear bumper.
(13) Right rear quarter panel (passenger cars).
(14) Left rear quarter panel (passenger cars).
(15) Right-side assembly (MPVs).
(16) Left-side assembly (MPVs).
(17) Pickup box, and/or cargo box (LDTs).
(18) Rear door(s) (both doors in case of double doors), decklid, tailgate, or hatchback (whichever is present).
|
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/565.13
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/541.5
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 5spd 3.4L V6 4WD(U.S), original '99 Talls in front, OME 906s in back, Hella fogs, Trekmaster shocks in front, Billy in back, no running boards, FIAMM horns, Alpine sound, Michelin LTX M/S2's, owned since new.
'97 HiLux SW4 5spd 4WD(Japan model bought in Brazil assembled in Argentina, very close to a 3.0 4Runner/Surf)
'71 FordWillys Jeep CJ5 (with straight six Ford Maverick 3.0 liter engine--lives in the mountains north of Sao Paulo Brazil)
My Backyard Frame Swap
Last edited by TheDurk; 01-08-2018 at 07:28 PM.
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
01-08-2018, 07:14 PM
|
#15
|
Elite Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,417
|
|
Elite Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 5,417
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDurk
There is no VIN on the frame, surprisingly enough. Just the frame number, which is a glorified model code, not a serial. Not an issue.
|
The frame number is serialized. It isn't the full VIN, but the last 7 digits of my VIN match the number on the frame...
-Charlie
__________________
'99 4Runner SR5 Auto - 4WD swapped
'89 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE 5spd
'17 Chevy Volt Premier
'16 Honda Odyssey Elite
Previous: '88 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GE BEAMS, 90 Camry 3S-GTE, 90 Camry DX, '03 WRX wagon, '08 Outback XT
|
|
Reply With Quote
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
|