[Millerad1651]

So instead of tacking on to the LP conversion thread, I figured I'd start a new one. When I had my last truck, I looked into converting it to E85. Living in Indiana, where a crap-ton of corn is produced, E85 is regularly cheaper than regular gas. Right now it's a good 80 - 90 cents cheaper, and this is the high season for it, it gets cheaper in the fall.
I've read that there are a small loss of mpgs, but there is a power gain. E85 runs cooler, and less carbon, so it can be better for your engine. These kits allow for use of E85, as well as regular gas. What do you guys think about them? Anyone have any experience? This is the site I got a lot of info from...they sell the conversion kit for 3.4s for $375. I'm not sure whether we use the Toyota or Nippo Denso Injectors, but the kits are the same price. Thats not too bad IMO.
E85 Conversion Kits Change2E85.com

Actual kit
http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=114

[tbst]

Interesting. Was doing some MPG and monetary analysis to post up and will soon to figure out how long it pays for itself in. What do we want to say the average mpg decrease is?

Is there a good website to find locations? Found some older ones, but I could swear there are more in Pittsburgh than what they list.

[PitbullRescuer]

Interesting topic and curious to see what the MPG decrease is in the 4Runner. My buddy and I drove out to Pittsburgh last summer for a wedding, 300 miles each way from Philly. We took his '08 Yukon which is a GM FlexFuel Vehicle. The MPG's with the E85 were terrible, I think we lost 100 miles from what he would normally get out of a tank. So it lost about 4 MPG. I'd be curious to see how the 3.4 responds to it.

[RunninInGA]

I've read the mpg loss is approx 4-5 miles on the average v6, but can't remember the source offhand. I have never heard there was a power gain however.

[Millerad1651]

Ya I think I read 5-10% decrease is common. I had a rental last year for a month that was flex...I drove the piss out of it and didn't notice that big a difference, maybe a mile or two. My guess it's more severe in bigger engines.

[hugo2go]

5-10% decrease in MPG is about right.
I've been running a 50/50 Mix of E85 and 87 Octance (Cali crap gasoline) and get about a 10% decrease in mileage.
I haven't done anything crazy to it to run E85. I also run pure E85 in my Honda Accord with no issues.
Only significant notice is the performance, once you step on the gas the damn thing wants to fly. Its like your running 100 octane in the thing.

[IanB]

Originally Posted by RunninInGA

I've read the mpg loss is approx 4-5 miles on the average v6, but can't remember the source offhand. I have never heard there was a power gain however.

There will be a fuel economy loss for sure (ethanol has less power potential that gasoline), and there is a power gain POTENTIAL due to the higher octane rating of ethanol, but you'd need more fuel, and boost to ever achieve a power gain. A naturally aspirated engine won't see a power gain on E85, just the decrease in fuel economy.

Ethanol as a fuel is unsustainable, it is the work of the corn lobby pure and simple. The fact that it is now law that ethanol has to be in our fuel is ridiculous.

[tbst]

Yeah, there are some interesting articles on ethanol usage and the direct effect on corn prices and world food prices. Distributing.

Someone somewhere has done a conversion. Need to find it. Haven't tried searching yet. On my phone...

[Millerad1651]

Whether the corn lobby is screwing us, or the oil companies are screwing us, someone is going to be screwing us. Its just the way it is. If I can save some money on fuel, I will. I know E85 is popular around here, and there is definitely no shortage of it. E85 is actually 105 octane, so like Hugo said, there could be a power gain, although probably minimal. Here is another site I got info from, they have a decent FAQ section.

Flex Fuel Conversion Kits - E85 Conversion Kits - Drive Flex Fuel - FAQ

[hugo2go]

I've heard many mixed reviews here in Socal from different tuners.
But my take on this is that if prices dont fall below $4.25 a gallon in California, i'm going to upgrade the rig to run E85 all day log.
Which from what I have been told is just different injectors and a piggyback or standalone system.

So we'll see.......

[IanB]

Originally Posted by Millerad1651

Whether the corn lobby is screwing us, or the oil companies are screwing us, someone is going to be screwing us. Its just the way it is. If I can save some money on fuel, I will. I know E85 is popular around here, and there is definitely no shortage of it. E85 is actually 105 octane, so like Hugo said, there could be a power gain, although probably minimal. Here is another site I got info from, they have a decent FAQ section.

Flex Fuel Conversion Kits - E85 Conversion Kits - Drive Flex Fuel - FAQ

You don't gain power from higher octane fuel, if the engine doesn't require higher octane. Octane rating is simply a measurment of the fuel's resistance to detonation. If the ethanol content is the reason for the higher octane, it actually contains LESS power potential than straight gasoline of all grades, even 87 octane gasoline.

[Dbl. E]

I didn't know these conversions were available at all. Somebody get one and report back. In my area E85 is about $1.30 per gallon cheaper. For my driving habits I would have the kit paid for in around four months.

[Millerad1651]

The power gain comes from the fact that higher ethanol count takes longer to burn, so instead of one quick burst to push the piston down with gasoline, the E85 burns the whole length of piston travel, which CAN lead to higher performance. Also burns cooler and releases less carbon, leading to a cleaner burn/engine.

"It is true that a vehicle does require more E85 than regular gas since the amount of energy per unit of ethanol is less than that of gas. Ethanol has a lower ignition temperature so the engine overall will run cooler increasing power. It also burns slower so instead of just burning out in one violent explosion forcing the piston down, it continues to burn the entire length of the piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. So running E85 will give any engine more power over any pump gas. Also E85 is 105 octane. Gas comes in 87, 89 and 91 octane. The 105 octane of E85 will help to eliminate knocks and pings. All of these benefits will make an engine run smoother and quieter."

[CaliCal]

IanB is right. on natural aspirated engine there is no gains. on a turbo is where it shines. horse power records have been broken cause of the E85. Rotary engine also benefits from it since its burns cleaner and cooler.

super charged?

[Millerad1651]

I can be! Im far from being an expert on this, just reiterating what ive read and heard. I'm just looking at this as an option. Right now it is significantly cheaper per gallon, and it'll only get cheaper through the year. I don't see gas going down anytime soon either. Oh well, I may or may not do it, just thought I'd get a convo started.