So I purchased a new 4runner back in Feb. Shortly after I order a lift kit from Toytec. Normally I would install these items myself as I have done in the past but I simply didn't have the time to do so. I selected a local shop spoke with them and decided to have them install the lift kit. It all went down hill from there. This is my ongoing dealings with them and the BBB. Enjoy....

My original complaint to the BBB:

Mechanical work conducted by company's technicians on my vehicle was improperly completed resulting in failure of components. Warranty was denied.
Install date 20 April 2015
Returned for warranty service 27 April 2015

I purchased a lift kit from a very large reputable manufacturer of these items. The kit is specifically designed for my vehicle make and model. When I contacted 4Wheel Center about installing these items they stated that they had the experience with this type of work and it would be no issue. I was told there is a 30 day warranty on the installation. After a week (after the install by 4wheel center) of driving the vehicle I noticed a loud clunking noise from the front. Upon inspection I found that some of the hardware had come loose and some parts were missing from the vehicle sway bar system. I immediately drove the vehicle to the shop to have their mechanics inspect the vehicle. After two hours of waiting I was told that they were not responsible and it was because the kit didn't have a "locking washer" for the component (this component does not require a locking washer). Then I was told I would have the purchase the replacement part at a price of $47.00. I asked where the part was coming from and I was told from the local dealer of the vehicle. I chose not to purchase the part there and went to the dealer myself. I was quoted a price of $31.00. I also had a technician at the dealer look at the OEM component that was re-installed by 4Wheel Center. The 4Wheel Center techs installed the brackets backwards and did not torque the bolts correctly. This directly led to the bolts coming loose and because the bracket was installed backwards it completely fell off the vehicle. It is absolutely unacceptable to send someone out the door with this level of work. And then to deny warranty coverage of the items that need to be replaced because of the incorrect installation by 4Wheel Center’s technicians. Also adding a $16.00 increase to the price of the items sold by the dealer is dishonest business.


I would like reimbursement for the cost of the replacement parts as well as the service charge for another shop to install replacement parts and inspect the work performed by 4Wheel Center. Also any other charges required to correct any issues with the install performed by 4Wheel Center.

Their first response 5 May 2015:

Mr. Caleb brought his 2015 Toyota 4runner and his own parts to our shop for an installation of a suspension lift. At that time Mr. Caleb was informed of our warranty policy. 4 Wheel Center doesn't provide any warranty on parts brought in from an outside source nor the labor on parts installed that were not purchased at 4 Wheel Center. We've operated this way successfully for thirty seven years and counting. In regards to having the suspension installed incorrectly "backwards", I don't know where the client is getting his information from. The kit failed due to the sway bar sliding off of the bracket, the vibration the vehicle puts out may have stressed the sway bar causing it to get loose and disconnect. In the customers previous statement "this component does not require a locking washer" is indeed false, just because a kit doesn't specifically state that a certain component is not required doesn't mean it isn't needed or helpful to the vehicles overall performance. The kit may or may not have stated that it requires locking washers or tightening bolts but in our defense had those parts been applied to that customers vehicle/suspension he would have had a zero possibility of that part failing.
The desired solution that Caleb is seeking will not be met due to our strict warranty policy that we have had in effect since 1977. But I can offer one of two things that we can do for our customer, since we do value our veterans and would like to continue doing business with him if he chooses to continue to come to 4 Wheel Center. We will purchase the bracket that he needs for his vehicle and install the part at no additional cost to him, or he can pick up the bracket and install the part himself. Either way nothing will be paid out of his pocket.
The above statement will be honored if and only if, the Google, Yelp and any other negative review Mr. Caleb has left on the internet is taken down immediately and it does not return to those sites. Those are the only conditions we are willing to work with to help our customer.
Thank you,
James D (Store Manager)

My response:

I know it’s my word against the company’s but when I contacted 4Wheel Center to do the install I was in fact told there WOULD be a 30 day warranty on the install. I am not asking for replacement of broken or defective parts that were not purchased from 4Wheel Center. I am asking that the cost of the components that fell of the truck be reimbursed because that is directly related to their improper installation by 4Wheel Center techs.

1. I did not state the suspension was installed backwards. I stated that the bracket that retains the bushing in which the sway bar is mounted was installed backwards. It in fact was. This vehicle has two brackets which are specific to the side of the vehicle as well as their orientation front and rear. They were installed on the correct sides but turned backwards. The item is labeled with arrows and a large stamped ‘L’ and ‘R’ to indicate the orientation and side to be installed. The kit did not fail, the techs failed at re-installing the factory Toyota part correctly. And this item does NOT have a locking washer from the manufacture of the vehicle or from the manufacturer of the lift kit. I contacted both and confirmed this. It is a torque specified item.

2. 4Wheel Center stated, “The kit may or may not have stated that it requires locking washers or tightening bolts but in our defense had those parts been applied to that customers vehicle/suspension he would have had a zero possibility of that part failing.” (Store Manager) If this is the case why did your techs not inform me this and or use ‘shop supplies’ to correctly (in your opinion) install this component? I was given the vehicle and told everything was good to go. So by your own admission your techs gave me back a vehicle with a kit improperly installed. Having the mechanical knowledge to tighten bolts and use basic shop supplies where required is what a business like this should do.

3. Upon further inspecting the vehicle I also found that the jam nuts on both rear lower links were not tightened, they were not even snug against the 7075 aluminum tube link itself. This allowed the Johnny joints to rotate freely and could have caused them to separate entirely. I also found that the three bolts at the top of the front driver side spring over shock were barley finger tight. If either of these components had come loose total loss of control of the vehicle could have occurred.

This is unacceptable and I will not agree to anything less than reimbursement for the parts I had to replace and the labor charges for another shop to go through and make sure the suspension problems were corrected. The total above is $137.11. This includes a new bracket for the sway bar from Toyota, $34.27 with tax, and $102.84 for labor charges to have the vehicle inspected and installation errors corrected. I have receipts for both these items. Also I have attached photos of the items found loose (noted is statement #3) during further inspection.

Link to photos of above mentioned items in statement #3. Suspension - Album on Imgur




tl;dr Don't ever use 4Wheel Center in El Paso TX

So that's where it stands at the moment. Regardless I will not have that shop do any further work on my vehicle. If I had thought about it I would have taken photos of the sway bar as well before I fixed it.

Oh and hello, I'm Caleb, new to the forum, glad to be here.

-C

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear your first experience with a shop was so negative. I hope that wasn't a recommended shop from a forum member.

Moral of the story - 4/20 is a terrible day to do anything important.

Jokes aside, that's a shitty deal - hopefully it works out for you and you can come to an agreement with the shop.

Totally understand wanting a shop to do the work due to not having enough time. I'm in the same boat working like crazy, wife working and we have a 13 month old. But your experience is why so many on here do their own work on stuff like this. It's sad you can't trust people to do a good job and stand behind their work. Oh, and that BS from the shop requiring you to take down your reviews on Yelp, Google, etc.; that's pure crap. Unless you unfairly unloaded on them you shouldn't have to take them down. That's what those sites are for.

tell that "shop" to suck it, take your rig to a reputable shop and have it fixed right

"Also adding a $16.00 increase to the price of the items sold by the dealer is dishonest business." I'm going to just through this out there, but I think that's how all businesses work, sell something for more than what they paid. Do I agree with how much mark-up, the situation of the mark-up? No but it's not "dishonest" business, It's business. If I sold everything to customers for what I paid for it I wouldn't be in business for very long. Sucks they did a bad job, and by the wording of the response from the manager they are full of crap. I would consider it a life lesson, never go back, and leave the reviews up to warn others.

Except that this was a part they needed due to their error. You are correct that marking up a part is only logical business sense but this case they were trying to make money off their mistake which is wrong. I do agree with just consider it a lesson, if they respond and are willing to give your money back I would not remove your reviews but update them to note that the shop did stand behind their work (even if it took more poking then it should have). If they won't pay up just leave the reviews updated with a note they were not willing to reimburse you for the costs of the fix and know that the reviews will likely cost them more money then $13x.xx

Exactly, this is why I said I don't necessarily agree with the situation of the mark-up.But in general marking things up is not a dishonest business practice. I had a guy come to my office and ask for a part, I told him the price and he said "I can get it cheaper off the internet" and left. I'm not sure how he thinks we survive as a business with a storefront and people answering the phones and insurance and of course the little thing that most people forget businesses are in it for is profit. I also agree with the rest of this. I have my own business so I have had experience with mistakes and making them right, we are all imperfect and it will happen. If they do make it right then update to show this.

Exactly. Obviously hind-sight being 20/20...I'm not going to Monday Morning Quarterback you....but unfortunately your story is a universal one told and retold countless times on every car/hobby forum on the internet. I was burned by a shop (installing a set of 4.30 gears in my Cobra) back in '97. It was an expensive, but educational lesson. It was a NIGHTMARE experience and is the very reason I now do EVERYTHING on my cars. If I screw it up...at least I know what I did to screw it up and can blame no one but myself.

I think many of us can relate and feel your pain.

I understand shops marking up items, it makes sense. It was dishonest in this specific situation. The way the shop manager presented it to me since the item fell off was all I had to do was buy the part and they would fix it at "no cost" other than the part. It was dishonest in this case because he made it sound as if they would drive over to the dealer get the part an put it on with no labor charge. So they were just going to mark up the price on the item to cover the maybe 5 mins it would take to bolt back on and call it a free install?? I'm all for local shops and more than willing to pay a bit more for honest work and quality parts. The Irony is that the 130 bucks is really nothing to me, I already paid to have the truck fixed. What they fail to realize is I tend to blow a ton of money in my vehicles.. And they do supply a lot of stuff that I would potentially like to purchase locally. Their attitude and unwillingness to fix the situation has probably cost them into the thousands of my dollars..

-C

Hate to hear about your bad experience...

@CSW , you were told the part would cost $47.00

The dealer quoted you a price of $31.00 (this was probably list price).
I am quite sure, 4Wheel Center never pays list price but at least gets parts discounted to wholesale or 20% off that list price......
Most shops charge list price for the part plus labor to install.
That's how businesses work, not charging customers $31.00 + 51.6% = $47.00!

Now, even if that $31.00 is a wholesale price that the OP was able to purchase it for, you know CSW wasn't able to purchase that part cheaper than 4Wheel Center, so them raising the price 51.6% is still wrong.....

I wish you well CSW, I would be surprised if 4Wheel Center changed their attitude!

I'm glad my box stock 2015 TE will do everything I need it to as is.

I searched this site for lift+kit+problem and I got 26,917 hits. :-)

First off, who are they do determine which parts require locking washers/nuts? I would compare the similar components to the factory set-up. IF the factory set-up utilizes a locking washer, locking nut, and/or retention system of some kind; THEN they would have some leg to stand on. Unless they have an engineer on site who is capable of making a determination of that kind. A simple blanket statement of, "if the lock washers were installed to begin with it wouldn't have been an issue" does not at all exclude them from liability as explained in the following points:

• They themselves admit, that in their eyes locking hardware should have been used. At which point the customer should have been notified and the refusal to purchase/authorize installation of additional hardware should have been noted and documented along with a warning that failure to use such hardware may result in loosening/failure of components. (Their failure to do so means they knowingly allowed a customer to drive in a vehicle they made unsafe and without notifying the customer; that's a big BAR [Bureau of Automotive Repair] no-no)
• Such a blanket statement is little more than a poor attempt at an excuse, using safety wire on each and every bolt would also result in a near impossibility for hardware to loosen itself; yet most all hardware on a vehicle (suspension included) uses simple torque to value method of retention as designed and engineered by the original vehicle manufacturer. Their attempt to simply deflect blame implies that every component on the vehicle is potentially unsafe because it does not use their believed superior retention method; when it is easily proven that the manufacturer tested and found torque to value to be sufficient in many similar vibration prone areas.

The two above points alone point culpability in the shop's direction; not to mention I would like to see pictures of what bracket was installed backwards if possible.

The second quoted text shows me that this company has no problem to all but blackmailing their customers to edit their reputation. While I understand a business may not want such a damning piece of evidence posted for all to see (particularly since in this case there is enough to cast substantial suspicion on their practices and competence in this particular instance,) asking for the customer to remove an honest review of his/her experiences with the company in exchange for good customer service is extortion regardless of how you try to paint it. It would have been more reasonable to ask for an addendum to the original review that explained how the company took care of the customer in light of their mistake (which would be more valuable to potential customers as they would see that while supposedly rare for this shop to make mistakes; they do take care of their customer if something does happen.)

All in all, it sounds like they made a mistake and don't want to own up to the issue at this point; which is rather disappointing. Feel free to use my personal observations of the matter if you want, best of luck.

So a 51% profit margin/markup on a part is wrong? I understand in this case it is. They screwed up and are still making bad decisions. But do you think that everything you buy at any box store or small business doesn't make at least a 51% markup on parts? Let me give you a small example. You can go to Lowes and buy a garage door hinge for $4.48 plus tax. How much do you think they paid for it? When me and my little business buys them we pay .73 if I buy them in singles or .63 if I buy at 100 or more. What kind of markup is that? I believe it's a bit more than 51%. Again I am not condoning the actions of the 4wheel parts. They are sleazy and as Blackworks said they are just trying to cover up and extort to cover up their screw up.

I was referring to the automotive repair business's as most conduct there parts markup accordingly. Also, this one specifically!


You don't need to try to school me on other business's markup policies as I am aware.

Have a nice day!