Anyone swap in a 1UR-FE (GX460) engine into a 5th Gen 4runner

C

canadian bum

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Since they are essentially the same frames I was wondering if anyone has ever swapped in a GX460 V8 into a 4Runner or looked into it. I know it would be quite the undertaking electronically but there should be some people out there that can get this to work.

Might be something I'll take on later on down the road if I come across a drivetrain for a reasonable price.
 
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It would probably be difficult to do the electronics. I'm guessing you will need to use the Lexus ECU to control the engine and then do all the CAN communications to the 4Runner ECU for the dash to work appropriately.

It would be easier if the the 4Runner ECU had the capability to run 8 cylinders, but I doubt Toyota happens to be using the same ECU for both the 4Runner and the Lexus. The only time I've heard of an ECU being able to handle additional cylinders is the MSS54 DME(BMW for ECU) out of the E46 M3(I6) being able to run the S62 (V8) from the M5. Makes the V8 swap really easy if you're willing to give up A/C.
 
Yeah I wasn't expecting the Engine ECM to be the same. I know the 2005 4.7V8 and 2005 4.0L V6 engine ECM's are very close to the same because the plugs interchange however I have to verify wire locations to the body and gauge cluster. Currently swapping in a Tundra V8 into my Tacoma build. There are a lot less ECM's in that era as opposed to my 2016 and not sure how upset things will be talking to one another over CAN
 
Old Red said:
Interesting, I didn’t know that about the BMW ecu. On the Toyota side of things, because it would be coming from a GX460 to the 4Runner, I think in theory it would be easier but still some work. First step would be to get measurements on the frames and verify the engine/trans mounts are in the same locations, etc. You would most likely have to swap transmissions as well. Getting things to work on the CAN Bus would in theory be easy because all the electronics are made by Denso. The data transmission rate should be same, and CAN IDs for the modules are probably the same. Wiring shouldn’t present too much of a problem. They are for all intensive purposes the same vehicle with different “options”. This can allow for some interesting mods. All this depends on how much you want to spend in time and money.
Click to expand...

Mounts are easy to deal with. I have all the fab equipment and skills that, that aspect isn't even a concern. I'd swap the drivetrain over and part time case off the 4runner with manual shift. Just want to make sure everything would continue to operate as it should. I believe there is something like 24 ECMs in the new 4runners. The V8 swap is easy in my Tacoma because I'm eliminating the 4x4 ECM and the system itself is really straight forward as far as electrical goes.
 
I'll keep my eyes peeled for a wrecked GX460 in a couple of years. I need to finish up my Tacoma and focus on my Land Cruisers. Once those are done then I'll think about doing this swap. But always good to acquire information so not going in blind.
 
Sub'd

After towing my 18ft R-Pod (~2400lbs) on it's first long haul trip (1100 miles), and getting 10.5mpg, I'm definitely looking for a solution to my 4Runner's lack of power. I love pretty much everything about my 4R, except the power. My daily's (Audi Q5 tdi) 3.0 v6 makes the 1GR-FE look pathetic with it's 428ft-lb. Unfortunately since my Q5 doesnt have a beefy suspension or hitch (and cant go offroad), I'm stuck towing the camper with the 4R. The idea of the 1UR-FE swap also came up during my 22+ hours of towing. More recently, I had the idea of just swapping the 5-AT (A750F) for the 6-AT (A760F) found in the GX460, Tundra, & Sequoia. Since I spent almost the entire 1100 miles in 4th gear, I looked at just re-gearing, but 4.56s on my stock 32s seems too aggressive for all the highway driving I do.

From what little I've been able to find online, the bell housings are supposed to be the same. Gears 1-5 are identical, with the ratio for 6th being .59 (5th is .72). Pair that with a 4.88 re-gear, and 6th at 70mph will be about 200 rpm higher than stock. My hope is that the slightly higher cruising rpm would be enough to keep the 4R from down shifting at the slightest increase in load on the engine, yet without killing the highway mpg that 4.56s would do, by up-ing the rpm at 70mph by ~500rpm. When you did down shift on the highway to 5th, the jump would only be about 500rpm, compared to the stock 800rpm (5th to 4th). The 4.88s on gears 1 thru 4 would definitely give some better acceleration.

As the OP highlighted, getting the electronics to play nice will be the hard part. If anyone has some feed back or ideas, I'd appreciate it.
 
Panzr15 said:
Sub'd

After towing my 18ft R-Pod (~2400lbs) on it's first long haul trip (1100 miles), and getting 10.5mpg, I'm definitely looking for a solution to my 4Runner's lack of power. I love pretty much everything about my 4R, except the power. My daily's (Audi Q5 tdi) 3.0 v6 makes the 1GR-FE look pathetic with it's 428ft-lb. Unfortunately since my Q5 doesnt have a beefy suspension or hitch (and cant go offroad), I'm stuck towing the camper with the 4R. The idea of the 1UR-FE swap also came up during my 22+ hours of towing. More recently, I had the idea of just swapping the 5-AT (A750F) for the 6-AT (A760F) found in the GX460, Tundra, & Sequoia. Since I spent almost the entire 1100 miles in 4th gear, I looked at just re-gearing, but 4.56s on my stock 32s seems too aggressive for all the highway driving I do.

From what little I've been able to find online, the bell housings are supposed to be the same. Gears 1-5 are identical, with the ratio for 6th being .59 (5th is .72). Pair that with a 4.88 re-gear, and 6th at 70mph will be about 200 rpm higher than stock. My hope is that the slightly higher cruising rpm would be enough to keep the 4R from down shifting at the slightest increase in load on the engine, yet without killing the highway mpg that 4.56s would do, by up-ing the rpm at 70mph by ~500rpm. When you did down shift on the highway to 5th, the jump would only be about 500rpm, compared to the stock 800rpm (5th to 4th). The 4.88s on gears 1 thru 4 would definitely give some better acceleration.

As the OP highlighted, getting the electronics to play nice will be the hard part. If anyone has some feed back or ideas, I'd appreciate it.
Click to expand...

The A760F transmission shares everything except one clutch function, the solenoid set on the bottom, and possibly the ECU? They not only share bell housing, but they share the exact same transmission housing and all internal parts except the solenoids and one clutch bell part. Essentially they are the same transmission, but Toyota won't let you use the 6th gear in the 4Runner. It's already an option in the transmission gear set. It was a 6 speed that Toyota uses as a 5 speed. That's very annoying.

The issue is the electronics. I don't know if it would be plug and play or require a ton of work arounds. If I knew it was just plug and play I'd have already swapped one in. I can't have my 4Runner down for a month while I sort it out though.

I don't think the V8 swap will ever by a popular mod. There are too many GX's that are too cheap. It's just too easy to go trade the 4R for a GX instead of going to the effort to swap in the v8. And it's exceedingly rare to have an engine failure in the 1GR. So there's just no reason for most people to do it. It would be awesome! but I can't see a very good justification for doing it instead of just having the GX. And the two supercharger options make a lot more power than the 4.6 v8. Personally - my ideal option would be a 6psi turbo kit for the 1GR. I prefer turbos over superchargers, especially for towing. So I'd rather do that if it were possible. Or in a dream world - swap in a 1VD-FTV. That I can get on board with for sure!
 
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I know alot of times with these swaps people use the whole drive train, ecu, dash, pedals, and all that, costume housing and lots of fab work. I do love them BMW swaps and Subaru
 
Jetboy said:
The A760F transmission shares everything except one clutch function, the solenoid set on the bottom, and possibly the ECU? They not only share bell housing, but they share the exact same transmission housing and all internal parts except the solenoids and one clutch bell part. Essentially they are the same transmission, but Toyota won't let you use the 6th gear in the 4Runner. It's already an option in the transmission gear set. It was a 6 speed that Toyota uses as a 5 speed. That's very annoying.

The issue is the electronics. I don't know if it would be plug and play or require a ton of work arounds. If I knew it was just plug and play I'd have already swapped one in. I can't have my 4Runner down for a month while I sort it out though.

I don't think the V8 swap will ever by a popular mod. There are too many GX's that are too cheap. It's just too easy to go trade the 4R for a GX instead of going to the effort to swap in the v8. And it's exceedingly rare to have an engine failure in the 1GR. So there's just no reason for most people to do it. It would be awesome! but I can't see a very good justification for doing it instead of just having the GX. And the two supercharger options make a lot more power than the 4.6 v8. Personally - my ideal option would be a 6psi turbo kit for the 1GR. I prefer turbos over superchargers, especially for towing. So I'd rather do that if it were possible. Or in a dream world - swap in a 1VD-FTV. That I can get on board with for sure!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on the A760F.

While there may be some cheap used GXs out there, if someone wanted to buy a new one, that's a $53-64 swap. Plus if you actually go wheeling, I don't see it being a cheap endeavor to get a GX trail ready. I briefly considered a SC, until I discovered that it requires premium fuel. The small mpg increase from the added power, pretty quickly gets wiped out by the additional fuel costs of premium fuel. I'm on the same page as you, with a small turbo set up. Any idea how the SC guys cracked the ECU, to do the new fuel maps?

Typed like a child from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
Jetboy said:
The A760F transmission shares everything except one clutch function, the solenoid set on the bottom, and possibly the ECU? They not only share bell housing, but they share the exact same transmission housing and all internal parts except the solenoids and one clutch bell part. Essentially they are the same transmission, but Toyota won't let you use the 6th gear in the 4Runner. It's already an option in the transmission gear set. It was a 6 speed that Toyota uses as a 5 speed. That's very annoying.

The issue is the electronics. I don't know if it would be plug and play or require a ton of work arounds. If I knew it was just plug and play I'd have already swapped one in. I can't have my 4Runner down for a month while I sort it out though.

I don't think the V8 swap will ever by a popular mod. There are too many GX's that are too cheap. It's just too easy to go trade the 4R for a GX instead of going to the effort to swap in the v8. And it's exceedingly rare to have an engine failure in the 1GR. So there's just no reason for most people to do it. It would be awesome! but I can't see a very good justification for doing it instead of just having the GX. And the two supercharger options make a lot more power than the 4.6 v8. Personally - my ideal option would be a 6psi turbo kit for the 1GR. I prefer turbos over superchargers, especially for towing. So I'd rather do that if it were possible. Or in a dream world - swap in a 1VD-FTV. That I can get on board with for sure!
Click to expand...

Still hoping you'll someday figure out the tranny upgrade :D that extra gear would mean just as much as an engine swap.
 
Panzr15 said:
Thanks for the info on the A760F.

While there may be some cheap used GXs out there, if someone wanted to buy a new one, that's a $53-64 swap. Plus if you actually go wheeling, I don't see it being a cheap endeavor to get a GX trail ready. I briefly considered a SC, until I discovered that it requires premium fuel. The small mpg increase from the added power, pretty quickly gets wiped out by the additional fuel costs of premium fuel. I'm on the same page as you, with a small turbo set up. Any idea how the SC guys cracked the ECU, to do the new fuel maps?

Typed like a child from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Even $10k for the swap to a GX is probably a lot cheaper than the true cost of doing a 4.6 swap into a 4R unless it happens to be a very easy bolt in swap. At a minimum you're starting with probably $5k for the engine/trans/tcase. And then hundreds of hours of labor. Don't get me wrong - I think it'd be great. I just don't see how it could be done economically even as a DIY project.

The SC guys have two solutions. URD uses a stand alone computer. They didn't crack the ECU code. Magnusson already had the encryption keys. They built all the prior TRD SC models, so they're the only ones with the "keys to the kingdom". No one else can really compete very well for that reason. The big benefit I see with Mag SC is that it's as close as you can get to an OEM option. And there's a lot of value in their expertise.

I think you could probably use the URD computer to work with a turbo system, but I don't know how much work it would take in the tune to actually have a daily driver quality product for a turbo system. I'm really curious to learn more about the 3.5L twin turbo that supposedly will be in the next gen tundra/LC300 and whether it's some iteration of the GR where there might be options for parts interchangeability - like turbo fitment to the 1GR and things of that nature. My guess is that it's a completely non-compatible engine. But who knows.
 
Jetboy said:
Even $10k for the swap to a GX is probably a lot cheaper than the true cost of doing a 4.6 swap into a 4R unless it happens to be a very easy bolt in swap. At a minimum you're starting with probably $5k for the engine/trans/tcase. And then hundreds of hours of labor. Don't get me wrong - I think it'd be great. I just don't see how it could be done economically even as a DIY project.

The SC guys have two solutions. URD uses a stand alone computer. They didn't crack the ECU code. Magnusson already had the encryption keys. They built all the prior TRD SC models, so they're the only ones with the "keys to the kingdom". No one else can really compete very well for that reason. The big benefit I see with Mag SC is that it's as close as you can get to an OEM option. And there's a lot of value in their expertise.

I think you could probably use the URD computer to work with a turbo system, but I don't know how much work it would take in the tune to actually have a daily driver quality product for a turbo system. I'm really curious to learn more about the 3.5L twin turbo that supposedly will be in the next gen tundra/LC300 and whether it's some iteration of the GR where there might be options for parts interchangeability - like turbo fitment to the 1GR and things of that nature. My guess is that it's a completely non-compatible engine. But who knows.
Click to expand...

Does Magnusson have the keys for the 5th gen though? From what I hear in the SC thread their tunes are sub par, so I'd be surprised if they had full access. Not many reported issues with the URD unit, which I would lean towards when I'm ready to blow my engine. Not to mention the substantially more efficient design of twin-screw vs centrifugal in this application.
 
baysta said:
Does Magnusson have the keys for the 5th gen though? From what I hear in the SC thread their tunes are sub par, so I'd be surprised if they had full access. Not many reported issues with the URD unit, which I would lean towards when I'm ready to blow my engine. Not to mention the substantially more efficient design of twin-screw vs centrifugal in this application.
Click to expand...

Yes. I think they do. They're the only company with a complete tune. They tune just like the OEM would. So I don't think they're looking for max power. More like reliable power. Im sure there's more to be had with a more aggressive tune. I'm not an expert on the benefits of one sc vs the other with respect to this engine size and power range. Im sure the urd has more available boost and probably more power potential in the engine can handle it. I think the urd also requires injectors, fuel pump, and?? Other parts. Mag is basically plug and play install with no hardware charges other than the supercharger.
 
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