Same question comes up here over and over again. Just like this thread about KDSS comes up over and over again.

KDSS on road behavior

Yes, KDSS reduces ground clearance a bit. Yes, many shops will not lift a vehicle with KDSS. Dealers will almost never do it....

It can be done, it just requires a little more work and can result in a few issues down the road with odd leans and what not that are mostly resolvable.

I will say it is not worth getting too worried about ground clearance in that particular spot. It is more or less in line with the axle and that basically does not limit you in many situations since the tire can be position to start raising you up and over... The lift will help with your approach and departure angles which are much more problematic than ground clearance in that area.

Very capable stock. If anything after my experience I would rather add protection first (better skids/sliders) then lift it to put on 285's and only gain 1/2" of clearance. Lifts can help with approach/departure angles but ground clearance of your differentials and axle is only achieved by tire size. Just my .02.

Look at @MTN4RNR build and Adventure thread and these pics from this past weekend...all stock suspension.

Building, Driving and Adventuring the MTN4RNR

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...d-pics-84.html

Thanks for the positive feedback @TheKent and @Cymon . Sorry if I annoyed you @wfo9. After spending way too much time reading all these threads, I guess I got a bit of an inferiority complex for having just a stock 4runner... I have seen most of those. I thought for sure mtn4rnr's was lifted.

Hmm... So lifting doesn't give you more ground clearance? After thinking about that a bit, I kind of get it, but am still surprised. I really don't plan on going any bigger than 275's. This is still my everyday driver, and will be used for long road trips. All the dirt is still at least 3 hours from here anyway...

Thanks again, and happy trails!

One more question on that: So everyone here (at least those with kiss) has only got 8.5" plus 1/2 of however bigger in diameter their tires might be?

Anyone who spends much time offroad on technical trails will want a lift. These big girls are just too low with too many overhangs. I looked at the threads you mentioned. I saw a cool SAS second gen and some lifted Tacomas on some fun looking trails... The 5th gen was not really pictured doing anything. Just saying.... Lift is the most obvious place to start for most people. Armor + bumpers is too much weight for the stock suspension + the weight hinders all aspects of off-road performance. There is very little downside to a small lift and moderate tires (besides and MPG hit). Bumpers are a great improvement, but the stock suspension would never be able to support it and it is crazy expensive...

Completely agree! I was just making a reference for a member who mentioned he was in a tight budget and I was under the assumption from his post that he was not going into more extreme trails at this point in time, just some light to moderate trails to have some fun. I appreciate your knowledge and insight though, as it allows the members to see the spectrum of what their rigs are capable of.

Alright. Thanks again for the feedback. Sorry I'm a bit of a noob... It's been years since I've had a 4wd. I've been reading up on trails in the Sierras I want to go, all rated "blue", so not too technical. However, they all recommend "suv's with high clearance". That was the part that got me nervous. What is the definition of "high clearance" anyway?

Looks like I should be good for a little while anyway. Just can't wait to get out there!

Being the one mentioned, I will chime in on a few items:

I agree with the fact that a stock 4Runner can be a VERY capable. Some good tires and a little bit of armor will go a long way. I am on stock suspension, as mentioned, and will only be adding the weight of sliders as far as armor goes. Sliders are a pretty crucial piece of armor as it protects your doors and allows you to sliiiiiiide over objects that your center ground clearance would normally limit you to. Having a low center clearance just means that you need to be very selective with your lines, and that you need to know what your limitations are. A quick correction though, lifting your vehicle will increase your clearance in the center of the front axle due to the IFS and the frame clearance between your axles. Where it won't help you are on your lower control arms in the front axle, and your entire rear axle. For those, you'll need a larger set of tires.

Nope, stock as can be with the exception of the 275/70R17 Coopers and the soon to be added sliders. See my comments above for clearance associated with a lift. I would spend some more time looking at what people can do stock versus lifted, and see where you fit in. Personally, I will wheel stock with the sliders for a while to feel out my limitations and where I want to improve the clearance and ride quality so that I can make the best decision when I do incorporate a lift onto the build. If I could afford a lift right now, hell yes I would do it, but the previous sentence is my internal reasoning to make me feel better about being stock for now

Agreed, I was able to navigate the national forest roads just fine, and tackle some of the 'intro' technical trails with ease. I have done more with the rig that wasn't photographed at the time, but I am limited in what I can do without a lift or proper skids. The others on the trail were able to cruise along at a higher speed with less care for bumps and obstacles (and more comfortably). A lift and higher quality shocks would have allowed me to keep up with ease. As for the technical trail we did, honestly with a proper set of sliders, time and a good spotter I would have likely been able to follow up the trail on the stock suspension. BUT I like my truck and I know that the risk isn't worth the reward at this point. When I am lifted with skids and sliders, I wouldn't hesitate to follow the others up the trail. And yes, adding armor does add weight.

It's all subject to change with these trails, especially in the Sierras. Trails up there are difficult mostly because of rocks and boulder obstacles. I would check out, and google the trails before hand to see if you can find videos or photos of similar trucks and what they are equipped with IF they are running the trails you are looking into. If you have the option, find some friends that have been there before and consult them, or if you have time, walk the trail a ways to get a feel for how the trail is. Some trails may be rated 'moderate' because there is a steep, loose climb, which a stock 5th gen may be capable of. BUT if that rating is because there is a rock obstacle mid-trail, you're SOL. Do some research and tread lightly. Whether you walk or drive, you'll have a good time!

No doubt, a stock 5th Gen will get you to some great places with relative ease. You won't be tackling any moderate to difficult trails stock, but it seems like you just want to get out there, and there is plenty of places that your truck will take you with minimal modification. Enjoy the ride, @Teephud !

I mean this in the kindest way possible: Learn to drive off road and you will not worry so much unless you are taking it rock crawling. Don't be afraid to stack a rock or take the easier path.

Last thing- If you do take it off road and go hard you will bend and break crap. That all costs money so if you are strapped and can't armor up I would think twice about where you drive.

good educational posts. Danke, giving me some perspective on which variant to look at!

You did not annoy me, it is just that we have seen the same concerns about ground clearance several times. It turns out to be a very unjustified concern.

Bottom line... Ground clearance is a horrible stick to measure the capability of a 4x4. It is at play, but what really matters more is where those low points are in relation to the wheels.... A much better way to evaluate what a vehicle can do is to look at the entire package and mainly consider approach, departure, and break over angles + suspension travel and articulation, weight, center of gravity, tires, and finally gearing + open or locked differentials.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I have a trail rig that technically only has 10.5" of ground clearance at the diffs, yet it can easily climb over near vertical ledges 5 feet high or so. It's solid axle.. so a totally different animal, but the other stuff I mentioned are what allow it to do this...

As far as trails go.. and what you can do.... It's really hard to say. Ratings usually don't mean much of anything as they are notoriously inaccurate. Your best bet is local knowledge and the experience of someone who has done it before... people are usually very helpful in letting you know if your rig can do a given trail. Sometimes it is good to get multiple opinions though...

Try to start out with a group of other liked sized Toyotas... It will help to follow their lead...

I've led quite a few groups of Toyotas. I always get a little bummed when I see a non lifted truck... not because it won't make it through the easy trails.. but just that is is going to slow everyone down to a snails pace to get him through.... Just a small lift (like in the range of what the TRD pro comes with) makes a huge difference. Even spacers are totally worth it if that is all you can afford.. but do it right and add a little travel when you have the funds.... sliders and aftermarket skids are also nice, but I feel the lift and tires offer the most bang for the buck.. but everyone does it their own way...

Finally a thread that answers a question I've had since reading about all the lifts people do. How much improvement in clearance do you actually gain? Granted most people are starting with Trails or SR5's and need the upgrade. I bought a TRDP because I drive mud, rocks and logs in the mountains. I crawled under the truck with a tape measure before signing the dotted line and got 9.6" from bottom of front skid to asphalt and pretty much 10" from there back including the bottom of the rear diff to terra firma. I am happy with this for now but would want at least a couple more inches in gain for the cost of these lift kits and bigger trail tires.

@wfo9 you have posted the most impressive gains in clearance I've seen so far but man I'm sure it was expensive. It's definitely a ROI decision. I use my front skid to test clearance over rocks I'm not sure about. If I don't hear any grinding I know I'm good. Otherwise I back off and choose a different line. I put a fat dent in my stock gas tank skid bouncing on a boulder, (driving too fast) so have to get a stronger replacement. I will also be putting in a hidden winch for mud traps but other than this I have no plans to change much else. I will switch to trail tires when the stock AT's wear out.

I guess it comes down to how hard core you want to wheel. Any gnarlier than what the T4R can handle then you might want to build a custom crawler. (Which I plan on doing when I win the lottery.)

Read that it was 9.6 ground clearance and finding out it’s quite a bit lower my buddy was selling me on the 4runner offroad premium saying it’s all that offroad but noticed it doesn’t have front locker and clearance is lower than advertised power is lackluster and it’s got some issues with warped calipers so i’m seeing so many people choose this with all that mentioned and wondered what’s the big deal and why the huge following. I was looking at a colorado zr2 and was going to have the rear shock relocation kit to fix the low hanging shock mounts but again hearing a buzz on these suckers so am trying to figure out why the big following? Anyway i’m trying to find a vehicle as my daily driver but can hold it’s on in aggressive offroad situations

Thanks
Joel

wut...

sounds like you have made up your mind on what to purchase.