E-mail to Toyota about V8

I sent a note to Toyota asking about the possibillity of a V8 5th gen. Here is their response.
Subject
Future V8 4 Runner?

Discussion Thread
Response (MCot) 11/23/2009 07:18 AM
Mr. Gurney,

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We appreciate your interest in the 4Runner. We are sorry the V6 4Runner is not to your liking.

Toyota has not announced any plans to offer a V8 4Runner. We are, however, aware of consumer interest, and consistently strive to remain competitive in today's market.

Your comments and interest in this type of vehicle have been documented at our National Headquarters, where they remain available to the appropriate parties. We appreciate your input.

Michael Cotterell
Toyota Customer Experience
Customer (Roger Gurney) 11/21/2009 02:25 PM
I test drove a new 2010 4 Runner today. After driving my 03 V8 for seven years, the V6 felt rough and I miss the V8 sound. I will be interested in a new one when it comes out with the new 4.6 V8. Are there any plans for this?

Sounds like an automated response with someone e-signature on it.

Funny,

here's the reply I got from Toyota Canada in 2008 when I asked why no V8 in the SE

Dear Mr. ...:

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

Please be advised that the 2008 4Runner SR5 Sport Edition Package cannot be ordered with a V8 engine.

With regard to the options available, we would like to take this opportunity to explain that market trends are closely studied to give us a better idea of what vehicles and options are in demand. Then based on our findings, our Product Planning department is able to choose those vehicles and options that best suit the needs of the buying public. We recognize, of course, that these choices may not meet the needs and fulfill the desires of all potential customers. However, we have noted your comments and have forwarded them to our Product Planning department for their information and future consideration.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Sincerely,

Karine Shank
Toyota Canada Inc.

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I'm sure toyota intentionally eliminated the V8 from the 5th gen to make you buy the GX460. I guess Toyota figure Toyota buyers are more price conscious and will gripe if the fuel economy is too low or if it uses premium gas while they assume anyone with the dough to buy a $50K GX460 doesn't care about the cost of gas?

I read blah blah blah f*uck off...

Only time will tell if Toyota offers a V8 engine in the 5th gen 4Runner.
When my current 4th gen 4Runner needs replacing and if there is no V8 in the 4Runner by then and the V6 is limited to 5K tow rating I will most likely say goodbye to Toyota.

When I last visited my local Toyota Dealer for service the only Sequoias I saw on the lot were 60K+ there is no way that or a 50K Lexus will be an option for this "Price Conscious" Toyota owner.

charlier180 said:

When I last visited my local Toyota Dealer for service the only Sequoias I saw on the lot were 60K+

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That must have been a Platinum trim level. An SR5 would cost a lot less.

Personally, I think losing the center diff (and full time 4x4 option) in all but the Mall Cruiser Limited is a far larger loss to the platform than the V8. For those of you who want to tow, I think the better thing for Toyota to do would be to bring in a small, high torque, rugged, diesel engine.

They have the V8 diesel (the VD series), but I think a better option would be an updated V6 ("HZ") diesel from the early 90s. Use the common rail system from the newer VD series, slap a variable vain turbo on it and you could see an easy 400ft_lbs of torque for pulling. This would do a few things:

- Massive towing capacity. All you tow happy folks would be instantly trading in the V8 for a Diesel.

- Gives the 4 Runner a higher fuel economy variant. Modern diesels are very efficient, so you could see 25mpg pretty readily.

- Would totally differentiate the 4 Runner from the ever increasing competition in the mid-size SUV class.

A diesel 4Runner is just not going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately. Toyota had been working on a diesel engine for the Tundra, but they have publicly announced that they have shelved the project. The sales of the Tundra far outstrip the current sales of the 4Runner and the pickup market is more amenable to diesel engines than the midsize SUV market. So if Toyota figures it doesn't make economic sense in the larger pickup market, I'm guessing that it would make even less economic sense in the SUV market. The 4Runner is now a niche vehicle. A diesel 4Runner would be a niche within a niche.

While a torquey diesel would help towing capacity, I'm not sure it would give that much more towing capacity over the V8. Towing capacity is not just governed by power, but also by frame strength, wheelbase, and braking. I wouldn't be comfortable towing more than 7000 lbs in a vehicle the size of a 4Runner. YMMV.

I'd love a diesel 4Runner and probably would have bought one if it was available when I got my 2003 4Runner. But I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

charlier180 said:

When my current 4th gen 4Runner needs replacing and if there is no V8 in the 4Runner by then and the V6 is limited to 5K tow rating I will most likely say goodbye to Toyota.

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X2. If I have to pay more and enter the Lexus arena I would most likely just pay for an X5 or X6. Lexus is nice but It's just a Toyota with leather...

tomhaney1 said:

I read blah blah blah f*uck off...

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ROFL!!!

arty:

M1911 said:

The sales of the Tundra far outstrip the current sales of the 4Runner and the pickup market is more amenable to diesel engines than the midsize SUV market. So if Toyota figures it doesn't make economic sense in the larger pickup market, I'm guessing that it would make even less economic sense in the SUV market. The 4Runner is now a niche vehicle. A diesel 4Runner would be a niche within a niche.

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The current automotive market is all about finding a niche and owning it. Right now, the mid-size SUV market has no diesel options. The 4 Runner is the defacto leader in this segment amongst the enthusiast end of the market. That enthusiast segment is also pretty interested in diesels. Ergo, I could see it making a whole lot of sense.

The full size truck market is really REALLY competitive. Toyota is getting their clock cleaned. For all their ills, the one area where the Big 3 know how to compete and kick some is in the big ass truck segment.

BTW - nice screen name. I'm a Les Baer shooter myself... =)

M1911 said:

A diesel 4Runner is just not going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately. Toyota had been working on a diesel engine for the Tundra, but they have publicly announced that they have shelved the project. The sales of the Tundra far outstrip the current sales of the 4Runner and the pickup market is more amenable to diesel engines than the mid size SUV market. So if Toyota figures it doesn't make economic sense in the larger pickup market, I'm guessing that it would make even less economic sense in the SUV market. The 4Runner is now a niche vehicle. A diesel 4Runner would be a niche within a niche.

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Developing a diesel engine just for the 4Runner does not make economic sense for Toyota. When word came out that Toyota was working on a diesel engine for the Tundra I thought GREAT, Toyota is smart enough to design an engine that could be used in a couple of different models (Tundra, Sequoia, 4Runner and their Lexus equivalents). That would spread the R&D Costs around and allow for the sharing of the same parts and training, etc. Yes I do realize that the engine certification costs could not be spread around. Apparently Toyota is not as smart as I thought they were as it appears they were working on a model specific, application specific, engine which in today's automotive world has a LOT of disadvantages.

M1911 said:

While a torquey diesel would help towing capacity, I'm not sure it would give that much more towing capacity over the V8. Towing capacity is not just governed by power, but also by frame strength, wheelbase, and braking. I wouldn't be comfortable towing more than 7000 lbs in a vehicle the size of a 4Runner. YMMV.

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I agree that the towing capacity of a vehicle is not determined just by the engine in the vehicle but more by it's frame strength, wheelbase, and braking.
The VW Touareg is a prime example of that in that it's tow rating is the same for the V6, V8 and V10 Diesel engine models (not sure about the new V6 Diesel engine). The BIG advantage of a diesel engined 4Runner would be the MPGs both when towing and when not towing. In both cases I would do a lot for more than the 7-9 MPG when I tow and the 19-20 when not towing.

Zen Driver said:

The current automotive market is all about finding a niche and owning it. Right now, the mid-size SUV market has no diesel options. The 4 Runner is the defacto leader in this segment amongst the enthusiast end of the market. That enthusiast segment is also pretty interested in diesels. Ergo, I could see it making a whole lot of sense.

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FYI, the VW Touareg mid-size SUV has had a diesel engine off and on since almost the year it was introduced. Granted, the Touareg is a "Luxury" SUV which their owners like to point out to me when I get into discussions with them. Recently VW retired the V-10 Diesel engine in favor of the V6 diesel and also has/will eliminate their V8 gas engine. The only problem with the V-10 diesel engine VW Touareg was/is the $65-75K cost. Not sure what the price of the V6 Touareg runs these days.

ZenDriver said:

The full size truck market is really REALLY competitive. Toyota is getting their clock cleaned. For all their ills, the one area where the Big 3 know how to compete and kick some is in the big ass truck segment.

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Yes, the Big 3 do sell trucks. One reason they sell trucks is the DIESEL engines they offer in them. When it comes to people who do a lot of towing, the VAST MAJORITY of truck owners have a DIESEL engine. If/when Toyota gets SERIOUS about competing in the truck segment (and other segments as well) they will have to man-up and offer a diesel engine in their trucks and other vehicles.

BTW Toyota, if you think putting Hybrid technology in the 4Runner in the future will keep me as a customer you could not be more WRONG. Give me 7K pounds of towing capacity and an engine that shows me it is capable of pulling that weight. Hopefully, I will get another 4-5 years out of my 4Runner. That is, if I can keep winning the battle with RUST I am fighting. That is a different thread for another time.

ZenDriver said:

The current automotive market is all about finding a niche and owning it. Right now, the mid-size SUV market has no diesel options. The 4 Runner is the defacto leader in this segment amongst the enthusiast end of the market. That enthusiast segment is also pretty interested in diesels. Ergo, I could see it making a whole lot of sense.

The full size truck market is really REALLY competitive. Toyota is getting their clock cleaned. For all their ills, the one area where the Big 3 know how to compete and kick some is in the big ass truck segment.

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The problem is the engineering and development cost. Toyota is likely going to sell something like 12,000 4Runners per year. If they sold a diesel version, maybe they'd sell 6000 diesel 4Runners per year. That quantity is so low that the per vehicle cost of engineering and developing the diesel would never be recouped.

Toyota would have likely been able to sell 50k - 100k diesel pickups per year, and even then they felt the cost couldn't be justified. If the numbers don't work for 50k - 100k units per year, they really don't work for 6k per year.

BTW - nice screen name. I'm a Les Baer shooter myself... =)

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Nice. I've never shot a Baer but I here they are pretty nice. I've got about 7 1911s, from Kimber, Wilson, Colt, and Springfield. I like my Wilson the best of the bunch.