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Originally Posted by Thebeastlives
Not sure why someone who doesn't use a full size truck to do truck stuff would say the hybrid 2022 Tundra is a flop? Why because it doesn't get 30 mpg like some pos Pruis? A truck needs lots of torque to tow heavy 10k plus loads and that is what a hybrid tundra has. Toyota built it to have plenty of power to tow and manage those heavy loads and still get decent mpg doing it. Towing heavy loads it does it better than any other half ton and gets better mpg doing it. Using my neighbors non hybrid 2022 tundra to tow my 10k enclosed trailer it destroys my 08 Tundra in every measurable category. The hybrid beats the non hybrid towing especially when you need and want that 100 lbs of extra torque it has. If you use your truck to tow and you want significant more power and improve mpg doing it get the hybrid. If you want a high mpg vehicle buy a Prius because you can't have both.
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I occasionally use full size trucks to do truck things. I had a diesel F250 until November of last year that I used pretty much only for towing and hauling. It's not a good daily driver. I'll buy another truck in the next few months once I start needing to tow heavier stuff again. Was planning on a tundra. Not sure now given the relatively weak effort from Toyota. It's just kinda meh. The turbo failures are not confidence inspiring, nor is Toyota's response so far. Toyota needs to get out in front of this and they're not doing a very good job so far. So I'm still on the fence. It's certainly not the "world beater" I was expecting. I thought at a minimum it would match the current domestic trucks on payload and towing. The F150 can come configured for a 5th wheel and be rated for 14k lbs.
The issue with tundra is that it's effectively built to 3/4 ton specs in most areas - engine output, transmission, axle size, brakes, steering and suspension components, etc. But they put spring rates like a 4Runner on it (IIRC the 2nd gen tundra has lower spring rates than the 4R - and lower payload). So the base vehicle could probably tow and haul a lot more than it's rated for, but Toyota doesn't seem to be all that interested in targeting towing or hauling big stuff.
The new tundra unfortunately isn't really setup for towing heavy trailers like a backhoe or even larger dump trailer, so it's not really a good replacement for my F250. I'm okay with that. I can borrow an HD truck when I need to move the backhoe or just drive it up to my property on the backroads. I don't know yet if a 5th wheel hitch is even an option for the new Tundra. If you wanted to tow heavy stuff, the hybrid's weight is likely a problem especially for using a 5th wheel that requires higher truck load capacity. Hybrid has a larger rear axle, but lower payload.
The hybrid system adds 12% more power (in short bursts) for an 8% weight penalty. It offers 1mpg net benefit over the non-hybrid. And the battery is too small to offer any meaningful assistance towing up long grades where that higher output number on paper would be most useful if it were capable of delivering it. It can deliver 40hp for about 60-90 seconds. Considering the relatively low tow capacity, it's not meaningfully different than the base TTv6 for towing the kinds of trailers a tundra is rated to pull. It's around 0.2 seconds faster 0-60 empty. I'd guess it'll be pretty comparable difference with a trailer. And highway towing it presumably offers zero mpg benefits. We'll need to see a side by side test to know for sure. It has no mpg highway improvement in the EPA cycle empty. On a long grade the hybrid will perform worse than the non-hybrid in most cases. Once the battery is depleted after roughly the first mile it's now an extra 500lbs of dead weight to haul up the rest of the hill.
For a fraction of a second 0-60 the extra hp is probably pretty nice to have. I'm sure it pulls better in a drag race by a fraction of a second. But with even the heaviest trailer it can tow, an extra 12% of power will be pretty meaningless for real world use. It just can't pull enough trailer to put you in any scenario where you'd need 437hp vs 380 to get up to speed. With 20k lbs behind a diesel HD truck? Sure, there are times I need everything she's got. Even then it's very rate to go full WOT. But only 10k lbs? I can't think of any time I'd need WOT to get up to speed with a 10k lb trailer and the base TTV6.
I think the turbo 6 makes a big improvement in power delivery over the outgoing 5.7. It's a lot more powerful at lower rpms, has a modern transmission behind it, and at least on paper is significantly more fuel efficient. But the hybrid is disappointing because it could have been so much better with a bigger battery. It could have actually pulled like a diesel out on the highway. It could have had an inverter to power your camp. It could have had enough power (with more battery) to do things like ford rivers in EV mode so you don't ever need a snorkel for water crossings. It could have been offered with an add-on battery pack for the bed to make effectively a convertible PHEV option. There's a whole world of possibilities that Toyota could have looked at if it wanted to innovate rather than offer the bare minimum it could get away with still calling a "hybrid".