So let me prequel this response by saying this: I asked you to tell me if I was wrong, and both of you have done so articulately, so I apologize for making the assumption that both of you were complaining w/o taking action.
I browse this forum from time to time on my GY shifts, but I rarely dive into the discussions because I don't have time to contribute well thought out posts, which I think these discussions need. I figured I'd put my 2 cents in on this one and while my posts were rushed, I feel I've gotten my points across so far.
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Originally Posted by 02SE
I guess the question is do you want to live in a free society, knowing that there are inherent risks involved in everyone having that Freedom. Or do you want to live in a police state where your every move is monitored?
Realize that there is no guarantee of absolute safety, even if we give up our Freedom entirely. Bad people will still be able to do bad things.
I already said what I would suggest to help prevent DUI. Instead of having a bunch of Officers running a checkpoint, get out there on the roads patrolling, looking for poor driving. People that think they drive OK when drunk, generally don't drive nearly as well as they think they do.
My best friend from age 13 until he passed away one night in his sleep at age 35, was a Cop from the age of 21 until he died. He wanted to be a Cop to help people. By all accounts he was highly regarded by the community, and fellow Officers.
He didn't care for the heavy-handed gestapo-like tactics of DUI checkpoints. Or the random questioning of people that might look a little different than the norm, but haven't done anything suspicious beyond looking different than what some Officer arbitrarily deems unusual, that some Officers engage in.
On many of the ride-a-longs I went on with him, drunk drivers were really pretty easy to spot.
I've known one of my State Senators since I was a kid. I do send a letter when a topic concerns me that he has some say in.
I also have an Aunt that is a State Legislator. I talk to her frequently.
I also vote for people that I believe best represent me and this State and Country.
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In answer to your question: If I had a choice, I would like to live in a (totally) free society. Because the increased risk would come with increased freedom to defend myself against said risk. However, this is a pipe dream. Man is, and always will be, governed by law.
So to me, the question is: How can you change the law to more effectively deal with the problem that it is attempting to solve?
Police in my state (NM) catch far more drivers through regular patrols than they do by conducting checkpoints. Those statistics have been released year over year, and they always show that checkpoints are relatively ineffective. Word quickly spreads about the location of the checkpoints and drunks simply avoid them. I do believe, however, that when word gets out that checkpoints will be conducted, some would-be drunk drivers choose to stay home. So although they are ineffective at generating arrests, I do believe they reduce the number of drunk drivers on the road.
NM now has laws that penalize bartenders and servers for serving alcohol to intoxicated persons in bars/restaurants. These laws punish people who aren't directly responsible for the problem, and IMO are problematic because they hold accountable the wrong people. Drunk drivers should be responsible for the choices they make, from ordering another drink, to getting behind the wheel afterward.
I think the most positive solution to the problem would be for cities and municipalities to organize and fund (if possible, through fines collected from those convicted of drunk driving) a means of after hours public transportation and overnight parking that provides potential drunk drivers an alternative to driving home, while providing a safe place to leave their vehicle. IE open the city parking garage, and run a shuttle service similar to public busses... if additional funding is necessary, charge a small fee per rider. Combine this with public awareness campaigns and DWI prevention education starting at the high school level. It needs to become a part of our culture that DWI is not acceptable.
Kudos to you on doing your part to engage in the process of democracy. Once again, I apologize for implying that you did not/do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunninInGA
You're still making assumptions here BFAD and you've missed the point of the discussion with too narrow vision. You're assuming I or anyone else that has commented in this thread has not taken the steps you outlined (or any others) to voice their opinion in the proper channels and to their representatives. Perhaps you're correct in several instances, but again, it is my opinion that discussion belongs in another thread. However since you've brought it up again, I for one have close ties to local officials and representatives - those in and out of office and have worked during this election campaign season with a couple different candidates. I regularly call and email my Congressmen and Senators offices to voice my opinion and have voted in every primary and general election since I became of age. I once considered myself Republican, however I now label myself an independent.
This thread was not intended to be about DUI checkpoints specifically or solutions per se, nor was it intended to be a complaint session. I offered the video up for discussion purposes in general about the rights of the individual under the US Constitution and their infringement by law enforcement and other government officials. I'm not condoning illegal activity - actually the contrary. I have no tolerance for drunk driving - the only time I will imbibe is while I am at home with no plans to go anywhere. I also make sure there is another person of legal driving age with me that is not drinking in case any emergencies arise. Personally, my aunt was killed by a drunk driver when I was in high school and I know first hand its affects. Alternative solutions do exist. Additionally, I have several close friends that are LEO (many of which I have personally witnessed engaging in illegal activity including drunk driving), so I'm not taking shots at them as individuals either.
Solutions could include but are not limited to tougher sentences for drunk driving. Far too many people have 3 or 4 or more DUIs on their record - WHY? Bartenders and restaurants should be held somewhat accountable as well, however this will be difficult to enforce, let alone pass. Drivers licenses should be revoked for a longer period than current laws dictate and fines could be much larger - especially given the financial status of many local governments in this economy.
Last time I checked (I'll have to go back through my history to get you a list if necessary), about 10 states thought roadside checkpoints were unconstitutional as well. I'm not the only one that disagrees with this fishing tactic. They most often serve as a means to a whole list of other violations otherwise never identified. In my opinion, it infringes upon my rights as a responsible / law abiding individual that a police force thinks everyone on a certain road at a certain time of day / night should be interrogated without probable cause. It's profiling at worst.
On a separate note, I was pulled over 2 weeks ago for running a red light - it turned red as I went through it. I broke the law and was caught. I will pay the fine as any responsible citizen should do and have been more aware since. I never once complained to anyone that the POS cop pulled me over - he had every right to.
Please don't take offense to anything I've typed above. I sometimes come off as rude due to my to-the-point style. Again, I intend this to be a discussion, not a lecture.
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No offense taken whatsoever. Please note above that I have apologized for making incorrect assumptions.
To address the purpose of your thread. Fundamentally, I agree with you that DWI checkpoints are unconstitutional. Further, I agree that they can be a gateway to profiling by Police. However, it is my opinion that despite those concerns, they are one of the few methods of fighting DWI that at this point in time have any real impact on the problem. I would love to see checkpoints replaced by other methods of enforcement and prevention, which is why I am pushing the discussion in that direction.
In summary I am saying: Yes, checkpoints are unconstitutional. But what are you going to do about it? How are you going to help change the system?
As far as I'm concerned, my time and mental energy are consumed by matters that are far more pressing and relevant to my life than the constitutionality of DWI checkpoints. When I encounter a checkpoint, I know that there are better ways of dealing with DWI, but I also know that the checkpoints help. So I play ball, and when they ask their questions I answer them and go on my way. If I had more time, I might actively engage in trying to have an influence on fixing the problem. But I don't, so I suck it up and deal with the checkpoints.
Unfortunately the above paragraph applies to many laws and practices that I don't agree with, and I believe that what I have written above is true for many Americans. We are so consumed with just getting by that it's hard to find time to fight for what is right, and we just deal with what we've got.
DWI is tragic for everyone. It ruins lives. Not only the lives of accident victims, but the lives of offenders. It can ruin careers, fracture families, and financially cripple those who are convicted. And that is why I would like to see a solution that ultimately educates society toward prevention and makes DWI socially and culturally unacceptable.
