Toyota reliability?? > or < Honda??

Tstinson · Jan 10, 2018

I've been a car/truck nut since I was 10. Even then, I knew that Toyota and Honda were pretty much the only names in the reliability & resale value games. My father who beat the crap out of vehicles with next to no maintenance took 2 different Toyota 1/2 ton pickups to 250k and 315k. Since then, I've lusted over Land Cruisers, Sequoias and 4runners but always seemed to end up with something else for various reasons. I started a family in '99 which put us in the minivan market and quite frankly, the Odyssey is king. After taking 2 Odysseys to nearly 300K, a Prelude to 290K and an Integra to 315K, the last 2 Honda/Acura products were an '03 TL with 220k and an '08 Odyssey with 200K before both had different transmission issues as well as Vtech issues. I helped my father buy a new Sequoia in '05 and my son buy a used '97 4runner last year. Both of which have about 200k and running like new. So, having to replace our Odyssey, I just decided to finally get a Toyota myself and bought a '14 Sequoia with 36K. Now, here's my question: I know this is a Toyota forum but I'm hoping for some unbiased opinions. #1 Has Honda taken a dip lately? #2 What are your honest opinions on the reliability and longevity of the 4runner & Sequoias in general as well as compared to the competition?

wcjeep · Jan 10, 2018

You took an Odyssey to 200k? Amazing. Transmission was not known for that. Look up the new style Honda Pilot 9spd ZF transmission reliability. Land Rover and FCA both use the same transmission (not a good thing).

Toyota has had its missteps. Check the NHTSA (safe car.gov) and Car Complaints for various vehicles. 4runner usually has problems with chrome exhaust tips regionally installed. Competition has real problems.

TacoRunn0517 · Jan 10, 2018

When it comes to the engine and transmission, its tough to compete with Toyota in regards to longevity and reliability. Are they perfect? Of course not. Look no further than the 3rd Gen Taco. Good thing is that both the 4Runner and Sequoia have tried-and-true trannies and engines. For me, that is extremely important.

mrblah · Jan 10, 2018

toyota all day everyday.

I had a honda accord v6 that had to have the following replaced before 60k miles. The engine is reliable in honda's but the trannies are made of glass. What made me angry was Honda denied the claims until i threatened to sue them and then they said they would repair it under good faith. I only found out after I sold the honda, there were thousands of complaints about the transmission. Good faith my butt... You know whats the scariest thing in life, when your driving along on the freeway, and the transmission decides to die....you literally are powerless........hoping nobody is gonna rear end you going 80 mph.

1. transmission replaced twice
2. alternator replaced once
3. window solenoids replaced
4. door lock solenoid replaced

I've owned a lexus ls400, toyota 4runner, toyota tundra, and toyota camry and none of them gave me any problems.

amalik · Jan 10, 2018

mrblah said:
toyota all day everyday.

I had a honda accord v6 that had to have the following replaced before 60k miles. The engine is reliable in honda's but the trannies are made of glass. What made me angry was Honda denied the claims until i threatened to sue them and then they said they would repair it under good faith. I only found out after I sold the honda, there were thousands of complaints about the transmission. Good faith my butt... You know whats the scariest thing in life, when your driving along on the freeway, and the transmission decides to die....you literally are powerless........hoping nobody is gonna rear end you going 80 mph.

1. transmission replaced twice
2. alternator replaced once
3. window solenoids replaced
4. door lock solenoid replaced

I've owned a lexus ls400, toyota 4runner, toyota tundra, and toyota camry and none of them gave me any problems.

The vast majority of us on T4R love both Toyota and 4runners, but they aren't perfect by any means of the imagination. i'm not some biased anti-toyota douchebag, I own a 97 4runner and love it, its like a part of me cuz had it since it came out (original ownership).

3rd gens = bad factory lower ball joint design, many people with 'pink milkshake' issue where tranny fluid mixes with coolant and destroys tranny, leaking valve cover gaskets and leaking rear axle seals both extremely common, the list goes on.

4th gen, ton of issues early in that model (but generally OK from 05+), and then i dont know much about the 5th gen TBH.

then keep in mind Toyota got sued for people dying in vehicles that wouldn't stop on the highway (auto-accelerate),

in general, all manufacturers have kinda declined in the 21st century VS the 20th if you ask me. sure, they've gotten much more advanced, but less reliable.

mrblah · Jan 10, 2018

amalik said:
The vast majority of us on T4R love both Toyota and 4runners, but they aren't perfect by any means of the imagination. i'm not some biased anti-toyota douchebag, I own a 97 4runner and love it, its like a part of me cuz had it since it came out (original ownership).

3rd gens = bad factory lower ball joint design, many people with 'pink milkshake' issue where tranny fluid mixes with coolant and destroys tranny, leaking valve cover gaskets and leaking rear axle seals both extremely common, the list goes on.

4th gen, ton of issues early in that model (but generally OK from 05+), and then i dont know much about the 5th gen TBH.

then keep in mind Toyota got sued for people dying in vehicles that wouldn't stop on the highway (auto-accelerate),

in general, all manufacturers have kinda declined in the 21st century VS the 20th if you ask me. sure, they've gotten much more advanced, but less reliable.

Well, my toyotas didn't try to kill me (due to the transmission failing on the freeway), and then try to pin it on me.

Honestly though, its how Honda handled the situation and the fact that the transmission and alternators were known problems that have given me a lasting negative impression of Honda. It's unfortunate that we live in a society where we have to get lawyers involved to make things right.

Btw, I never sued Honda nor was there any intent to sue honda, I just wanted them to fix the car. Luckily, I have friends who are lawyers and all I had to do was have them send Honda a nasty letter to get them to do the right thing. No reason I should have had to go through 2 transmissions (Btw,they were all new transmissions installed by Honda) in less than 60k miles. After the second transmission, I literally sold the car to a buddy for 500 dollars. The people, at honda, flagged it as major damage on carfax.... Yeah, I'm never going to buy a honda again.

P.S. You know why they tried to deny the trasmission claim? Because someone flushed the transmission. Guess who flushed the transmission? It was then same Honda dealer that tried to deny the warrantee claim, when I kept telling them there was something wrong with the transmission misshifting during a routine checkup. So they flushed the transmission fluid in a previous visit, and then when the transmission did finally fail, they tried to say I flushed the transmission fluid.

If i sound bitter, its because I am bitter about the whole experience lol.

techno · Jan 10, 2018

I own two 4Runners and really like them both, but I think I like them more for their specs and capabilities more than any reliability claim they might have.

My '00 3rd gen is about to hit 200k but I've had to replace worn out/bad cv's, ball joints, LCA's, steering rack, wheel bearings, sensors, exhaust, shocks and coils, stereo, ignition coils, everything brake related and rusted out bumpers. I consider that a decent amount of stuff for a supposedly high quality and reliable vehicle.
I've had my '08 4th gen for 2 years (112k miles) and have needed to replace wheel bearings, stereo, numerous dash lights, seat belt buckles, tail gate switch, exhaust, warped rotors, frozen calipers, suspension, sway bars and links, cloudy headlights, and now the timing chain (yes! the chain) has stretched and is throwing codes all the time. If I get the timing chain done at the dealer, I will have spent half the value of the vehicle on repairs and maintenance already.

My wife had an 03 Accord and the engine destroyed itself at 99,970 miles. Luckily we had the 100k warranty and Honda honored it, but at 110k miles it started consuming 1qt of oil every 1000 miles. I think it was a blessing in disguise when the Accord and a Silverado later tried to occupy the same space at the same time

. However, a work colleague got 400k out of his 05 Accord with only a transmission rebuild.

I love my 4runners, but so far for me, my old '97 Subaru Forester has been the most reliable vehicle I've owned. Drove that to 184k miles and only replaced cv's once.

jordanrb81 · Jan 10, 2018

I think if you look at the data and the research you'll find a basic statistical tie, as you have seen above all brands and models have their issues, but I wouldn't let your mind be swayed by a sample size of 1 or 2 or 12 there are enormous amounts of data out there numbering in the 1,000's consumer reports etc. One thing I find surprising, and it may be regional is around here (Northern New England) the Sienna is the top selling minivan followed by the Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Town and Country. If I were to guess it would have to be AWD, as far as I know Honda doesn't offer it and Toyota does, up here that's a huge selling point. As for me this is my first Toyota and I have never owned a Honda, though many of my family members have owned both with what I would report as typical owner experiences. Toyotas and Hondas tend to meet their owners expectations.

Toffees · Jan 10, 2018

Tstinson said:
I've been a car/truck nut since I was 10. Even then, I knew that Toyota and Honda were pretty much the only names in the reliability & resale value games. My father who beat the crap out of vehicles with next to no maintenance took 2 different Toyota 1/2 ton pickups to 250k and 315k. Since then, I've lusted over Land Cruisers, Sequoias and 4runners but always seemed to end up with something else for various reasons. I started a family in '99 which put us in the minivan market and quite frankly, the Odyssey is king. After taking 2 Odysseys to nearly 300K, a Prelude to 290K and an Integra to 315K, the last 2 Honda/Acura products were an '03 TL with 220k and an '08 Odyssey with 200K before both had different transmission issues as well as Vtech issues. I helped my father buy a new Sequoia in '05 and my son buy a used '97 4runner last year. Both of which have about 200k and running like new. So, having to replace our Odyssey, I just decided to finally get a Toyota myself and bought a '14 Sequoia with 36K. Now, here's my question: I know this is a Toyota forum but I'm hoping for some unbiased opinions. #1 Has Honda taken a dip lately? #2 What are your honest opinions on the reliability and longevity of the 4runner & Sequoias in general as well as compared to the competition?

Anectdotally, Toyotas over Hondas. Empirically, we've owned 5 Hondas and 2 Toyotas, and we've put many more miles on the Hondas in total, and they're extremely reliable, but require more routine maintenance/replacement (especially CVs on all we've owned) than the Toyotas. But they seem to be 1 & 2 in reliability, and far superior to most other brands, any way you slice it up.

If I put a number on it, you should expect to get 200,000 miles out of your average Honda. I'd expect another 100,000 out of your average Toyota. In either case, you might tire of the car before it tires of you.

Gavino18 · Jan 10, 2018

techno said:
I own two 4Runners and really like them both, but I think I like them more for their specs and capabilities more than any reliability claim they might have.

My '00 3rd gen is about to hit 200k but I've had to replace worn out/bad cv's, ball joints, LCA's, steering rack, wheel bearings, sensors, exhaust, shocks and coils, stereo, ignition coils, everything brake related and rusted out bumpers. I consider that a decent amount of stuff for a supposedly high quality and reliable vehicle.
I've had my '08 4th gen for 2 years (112k miles) and have needed to replace wheel bearings, stereo, numerous dash lights, seat belt buckles, tail gate switch, exhaust, warped rotors, frozen calipers, suspension, sway bars and links, cloudy headlights, and now the timing chain (yes! the chain) has stretched and is throwing codes all the time. If I get the timing chain done at the dealer, I will have spent half the value of the vehicle on repairs and maintenance already.

My wife had an 03 Accord and the engine destroyed itself at 99,970 miles. Luckily we had the 100k warranty and Honda honored it, but at 110k miles it started consuming 1qt of oil every 1000 miles. I think it was a blessing in disguise when the Accord and a Silverado later tried to occupy the same space at the same time . However, a work colleague got 400k out of his 05 Accord with only a transmission rebuild.

I love my 4runners, but so far for me, my old '97 Subaru Forester has been the most reliable vehicle I've owned. Drove that to 184k miles and only replaced cv's once.

Sorry to hear all your mishap, but sounds like you just got some lemons.

techno · Jan 10, 2018

Gavino18 said:
Sorry to hear all your mishap, but sounds like you just got some lemons.

I wouldn't call them lemons, they have never broken down and left me stranded or anything, and if I was asked yes or no are they reliable then I'd say yes. I just wouldn't give them high points for quality.

Hitman · Jan 10, 2018

Toyota and Honda are in the same ballpark as far as reliability.

That said, it makes me chuckle when people focus strictly on reliability. Personally, I'd rather have a vehicle that makes me happy much more than just the most reliable vehicle out there. And unfortunately, it's often the case that the most reliable vehicle isn't necessarily the vehicle I'd like to own more than any other competing vehicle. So I buy what I like, regardless of how reliable is may be. And what I've found is amazing---even the most reliable vehicles, statistically, may not be as reliable as expected. Case in point: My 4th gen 4Runner is supposed to be one of the most reliable vehicles in it's class. But mine hasn't been. What if I told you that my Grand Cherokee has been more reliable than my 4Runner? How is that even possible? Well, it's true. Maybe it's anecdotal, but it's my reality.

So the moral of the story for me is that no car is perfect, they are all going to have issues eventually if you own them long enough (and under warranty if you don't own them very long), so just buy what you like and don't focus so much on reliability. Even the vehicles at the bottom of the reliability rankings are likely to be very reliable overall. Hell, I'd even buy a Land Rover in the future. In fact, I'm really considering the Range Rover Sport as my next SUV.

TacoRunn0517 · Jan 10, 2018

Hitman said:
Toyota and Honda are in the same ballpark as far as reliability.

That said, it makes me chuckle when people focus strictly on reliability. Personally, I'd rather have a vehicle that makes me happy much more than just the most reliable vehicle out there. And unfortunately, it's often the case that the most reliable vehicle isn't necessarily the vehicle I'd like to own more than any other competing vehicle. So I buy what I like, regardless of how reliable is may be. And what I've found is amazing---even the most reliable vehicles, statistically, may not be as reliable as expected. Case in point: My 4th gen 4Runner is supposed to be one of the most reliable vehicles in it's class. But mine hasn't been. What if I told you that my Grand Cherokee has been more reliable than my 4Runner? How is that even possible? Well, it's true. Maybe it's anecdotal, but it's my reality.

So the moral of the story for me is that no car is perfect, they are all going to have issues eventually if you own them long enough (and under warranty if you don't own them very long), so just buy what you like and don't focus so much on reliability. Even the vehicles at the bottom of the reliability rankings are likely to be very reliable overall. Hell, I'd even buy a Land Rover in the future. In fact, I'm really considering the Range Rover Sport as my next SUV.

People prioritize reliability because they want consistency. For me, I do a lot of driving. No way I can do all that I do both for work and after hours if I didn't have a reliable vehicle. Ain't nothing funny being broken down during rush hour on the highway. Or dealing with a wallet-binding invoice every time you leave the mechanic's. Any vehicle can give you issues. As you put it though, statically, Toyota produces reliable vehicles. Does that mean EVERY vehicle they make will be reliable? Of course not. That's how statistics functions. It doesn't count EVERY single plot point in population. There will always be exceptions/outliers. That doesn't take away from overall consensus. And I understand that it is easier said than done when someone has had a negative personal experience to accept that. I don't know what year your JGC is/was but since FCA has gotten involved, the JGCs of the 90s and early 2000s were more reliable. And everyone is different. If you don't drive a lot, for example, you probably won't care as much as reliability as I. Nothing wrong with that.

Toffees · Jan 10, 2018

Hitman said:
Toyota and Honda are in the same ballpark as far as reliability.

That said, it makes me chuckle when people focus strictly on reliability. Personally, I'd rather have a vehicle that makes me happy much more than just the most reliable vehicle out there. And unfortunately, it's often the case that the most reliable vehicle isn't necessarily the vehicle I'd like to own more than any other competing vehicle. So I buy what I like, regardless of how reliable is may be. And what I've found is amazing---even the most reliable vehicles, statistically, may not be as reliable as expected. Case in point: My 4th gen 4Runner is supposed to be one of the most reliable vehicles in it's class. But mine hasn't been. What if I told you that my Grand Cherokee has been more reliable than my 4Runner? How is that even possible? Well, it's true. Maybe it's anecdotal, but it's my reality.

So the moral of the story for me is that no car is perfect, they are all going to have issues eventually if you own them long enough (and under warranty if you don't own them very long), so just buy what you like and don't focus so much on reliability. Even the vehicles at the bottom of the reliability rankings are likely to be very reliable overall. Hell, I'd even buy a Land Rover in the future. In fact, I'm really considering the Range Rover Sport as my next SUV.

Good comments on reliability of a production run vs reliability of the one vehicle you own.

Although I'm a little surprised that you aren't considering the JGC next, isn't it more of a direct competitor of the 4R?

stphnman20 · Jan 10, 2018

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/249289-20-most-reliable-cars-decade.html

Toyota tops them all.

p nut · Jan 10, 2018

Personally, I've had great luck with both Toyota and Honda. I've had several of both brands over the years and took them past 200k mark with no major issues. I have no experience with new Honda's (except a 1st Gen Fit, which was an excellent car), but they seem to be doing just fine.

I would say they're about the same. I know folks with late model and they've all had good reliability. Even a friend with an F150 went 250k miles and it still ran like a champ. Just depends on your luck.

4R4Pazzo · Jan 10, 2018

WHile I can’t attest to Toyota being better over the long haul, I’ve had a few Hondas including ridgeline and the 4Runner is better in initial build quality and we like it better that my wife’s Pilot!

aykalper · Jan 11, 2018

This is an interesting question here.

I grew up with my family owning almost exclusively Hondas and Acuras. In '98, my dad bought a 4runner. That was the first vehicle we had taken to 115,000 miles (by choice, my parents always replaced cars earlier.) In 2005, my dad sold the 4runner and bought a Civic Si, which I later inhereted. Then a BMW, then an Si again.

Out of the 17 Hondas my family has owned, only the Acura TL (2003) gave us problems...the notorious V6 5 speed automatic problem.

I took the Si to track days, autocrosses, canyons, and brought it to 180,000 miles with just one replaced clutch. All the other work was modification, and supporting work to that. This car regularly saw 8650 rpm, tuned, etc.

The 4runner my dad owned had been no more or no less reliable than any of the Hondas, except the TL. Mine ('00, bought with 170000 miles) has also been nothing but reliable. Any issue that's come of it, I have caused.

The BMW...well...that's been a bit less reliable than we would have hoped, but no surprise there.

Hitman · Jan 11, 2018

TacoRunn0517 said:
People prioritize reliability because they want consistency. For me, I do a lot of driving. No way I can do all that I do both for work and after hours if I didn't have a reliable vehicle. Ain't nothing funny being broken down during rush hour on the highway. Or dealing with a wallet-binding invoice every time you leave the mechanic's. Any vehicle can give you issues. As you put it though, statically, Toyota produces reliable vehicles. Does that mean EVERY vehicle they make will be reliable? Of course not. That's how statistics functions. It doesn't count EVERY single plot point in population. There will always be exceptions/outliers. That doesn't take away from overall consensus. And I understand that it is easier said than done when someone has had a negative personal experience to accept that. I don't know what year your JGC is/was but since FCA has gotten involved, the JGCs of the 90s and early 2000s were more reliable. And everyone is different. If you don't drive a lot, for example, you probably won't care as much as reliability as I. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I will say this---modern vehicles don't really break down anymore. It's a rare sight to see a new vehicle broken down on the side of the road. Does it happen? Sure. It is rare? Extremely. And my belief is that most of the vehicles that you do see broken down are older vehicles and many of those older vehicles that are in fact broken down are most often vehicles that were neglected and didn't receive proper maintenance.

Personally, I've never once in my life had a breakdown and ended up on the side of the road. Then again, I take good care of my vehicles. I maintain them myself and keep them in top condition.

Hitman · Jan 11, 2018

Toffees said:
Good comments on reliability of a production run vs reliability of the one vehicle you own.

Although I'm a little surprised that you aren't considering the JGC next, isn't it more of a direct competitor of the 4R?

I own both right now. I still have my 4Runner that I've had since 2004 and I also own a Grand Cherokee

Toyota reliability?? > or < Honda??

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