2005 V6 Rear Locker?

I see your picture of your T4R in the snow. Your combination is EXACTLY what I was looking to do, but I still had a lot of questions, especially from those people who drive in snow. I have a thread going currently with a question regarding the TrueTrac in combination with the 4th gen traction control. (1) More specifically, any noticeable differences between the TT and the factory open diff in the snow?

Huge difference. Like I've explained before, the truck is a lot more surefooted in the slick stuff. A lot less intervention from the TCS limiting slip and when the system does kick in it's to get truck back in line when getting out of control. Whereas before, the TCS would aggressively kick in at the first sign of slip even in H4 unlocked. Combining it's mechanical advantages with the trucks ESP, disadvantages of it quickly disappear. For example, if you have a TT and a wheel is airborne, the ESP program will quickly multiply it's mechanical efficiency several fold by clamping down on the wheel airborne and spinning.

(2) Have you found you use the ARB air-locker a lot, or is this something that is a rare, or "just in case" use? I am deciding weather or not it's worth the money because most of my 4WD experience is on snow, ice, and sand...I know what it can do and what it can't, but am not sure how best to improve on the open diff w/traction control in the snow and ice. I might just throw in another OEM open diff in the front and get myself a winch, instead...I don't know.

I don't use the ARB up front a whole lot. I'm not in the terrain to warrant using it (i.e. Rock Climbing). This was more a do it while I'm at it when getting the gears done (no hindsight). Like I said before, I wanted something rather than nothing. This will most definitely help with traction in deep snow, etc. If ever need it, it's there. If I had the option of a TT to fit up front I probably would've done that as well. I have driven my share of AWD vehicles with front LSD's and this would've been just fine for me.

I like the idea of a selectable front and rear locker, as well. 3) How do you like those 4.56 gears? A lot better than the 3.73's, especially around town?
I love the 4.56 gears. With the 285's and stock gears I definitely felt a loss of power on the highway especially on inclines. I also felt like the transmission was working harder to get off the line as well. Around town the new gears definitely took care of acceleration woes and put me in the sweet spot for gearing. On the highway, the gears run the revs a tad bit high, but I haven't noticed a big difference in economy. Tradeoff was giving it a lot of gas to maintain pace, or now I don't have to throttle it as much but run higher RPM's. I see in your sig you're running 265/70's. I've been at that size too and if you don't plan on upsizing, I wouldn't recommend it.

To summarize - everything is a tradeoff. You have to assess what's best for your usage. LSD's like the TT are great for everyday use, bad weather, and trails. Seamless & automatic in operation and works very well IMHO combining both it's mechanical benefits with that of the ESP. Obviously this can't beat an ARB for all out positraction, but then that can't always be used - like on the road. A perfect device to me would be a lockable LSD (like Ected), but I have no idea how well they perform & hold up, but they're not an option for us. Hope some of this helps you in making a decision.
 
YouTube: Air Locker vs LSD vs Traction Control Part 1 - YouTube

There is a part 1 and a part 2. Identical vehicles, air pressure, etc. Good comparison.

A very good video but still biased IMO to highlighting ARB's product. The "LSD" portion of the test with the silver Prado is highlighting and he even quotes, the vehicles own electronic traction control system. A mechanical LSD alone would be much more effective than this system. Mech LSD + Electronics = a very effective everyday combination.
 
Mech LSD + Electronics = a very effective everyday combination.

That's what I was thinking and hoping. I think the folks without the computerized traction control systems are the ones that really do not like the LSDs in the front, and rear. They have to pedal the brake to get the other wheel to go, whereas our traction control systems do that for us automatically.

I've also recieved responses from folks that LSDs in the front cause a lot of understeer problems on slippery roads. I am inclined to believe that may be from someone not skilled on snowy, icy roads and/or they do not have the computerized traction control systems on their vehicle.

I've seen a LOT of positive feedback from the LandRover forums regarding the use of front and rear TrueTracs. It seems to be a real popular upgrade. They have computerized traction control systems, as well.

Having said that, for every 3 or 4 positives for the TrueTrac diffs, I see a negative one regarding them breaking, seemingly spontaneously, fresh installs, and not under any particular load...which is a little strange. I'm not too sure what the real reasons for the failures...installation issues? I haven't seen this issue on the road race circuit, even with some very high-powered cars, and being thrashed around on the track. I've had one in my road race Mustang for several years without issue.
 
Having said that, for every 3 or 4 positives for the TrueTrac diffs, I see a negative one regarding them breaking, seemingly spontaneously, fresh installs, and not under any particular load...which is a little strange. I'm not too sure what the real reasons for the failures...installation issues? I haven't seen this issue on the road race circuit, even with some very high-powered cars, and being thrashed around on the track. I've had one in my road race Mustang for several years without issue.

most differential issues are due to improper set up.

you will occasionally have a mechanical failure, or just old/worn parts, but typically when you see a failure on a "fresh" differential job, its almost always an installation problem.
 
most differential issues are due to improper set up.

you will occasionally have a mechanical failure, or just old/worn parts, but typically when you see a failure on a "fresh" differential job, its almost always an installation problem.

I think Nevada hit the nail on the head. Most follow-ups of failures revealed that the setups were installed improperly or were used in some cases in scenarios far beyond design capacity (weight & power, etc).
 
That's what I was thinking and hoping. I think the folks without the computerized traction control systems are the ones that really do not like the LSDs in the front, and rear. They have to pedal the brake to get the other wheel to go, whereas our traction control systems do that for us automatically.

I think this is over exaggerated to a certain degree. An LSD like the TT does not become completely ineffective like an open diff when wheeling. Yes, extra wheelspin does occur, and no, it's not as 100% effective as a locker, but in the end it's a tradeoff. The ESP should intervene even with a much lesser degree to get the TT operating at max efficiency.

I've also received responses from folks that LSDs in the front cause a lot of understeer problems on slippery roads. I am inclined to believe that may be from someone not skilled on snowy, icy roads and/or they do not have the computerized traction control systems on their vehicle.

LSD's in the front of cars can cause pronounced understeer, but this would have to be getting up to high speeds relative to the vehicle's handling capability. I have driven a number of AWD sport cars with front and rear LSD's like the TT as well as other SUV's equipped as well. These past vehicles also didn't have ESP or were defeatable. If driven right they are very effective traction aids. A lot of factors have to come in play from the design of the drivetrain to the skill level of the driver.

I've seen a LOT of positive feedback from the Land Rover forums regarding the use of front and rear True Tracs. It seems to be a real popular upgrade. They have computerized traction control systems, as well.

If I could've I would've done the front with a TT as well.
 
Huge difference. Like I've explained before, the truck is a lot more surefooted in the slick stuff. A lot less intervention from the TCS limiting slip and when the system does kick in it's to get truck back in line when getting out of control. Whereas before, the TCS would aggressively kick in at the first sign of slip even in H4 unlocked. Combining it's mechanical advantages with the trucks ESP, disadvantages of it quickly disappear. For example, if you have a TT and a wheel is airborne, the ESP program will quickly multiply it's mechanical efficiency several fold by clamping down on the wheel airborne and spinning.

Mike: I'm interested in hearing more about the TT.

My concern about non-selectable lockers is this: I've had two vehicles with LSD's, a 1990 Mitsubishi Montero (which came from the factory with a rear LSD) and a 1999 Ford Ranger 4x2 (which I put an Auburn LSD into to give me a little bit of traction control since I was 2wd.)

On BOTH of these vehicles I had instances where, driving on hard packed snow (so, a rather slippery surface), the rear end of the truck "kicked out" for no reason and sent me spinning. On the Montero this resulted in a low speed accident when I hit another (parked) vehicle, on the Ranger it happened in the middle of the day on the busiest street in Laramie, WY, but by pure chance there were no cars around me when I spun 180 degrees into the oncoming lane, and I was able to recover and drive off.

At first I had no idea what happened and then I started reading up on automatic LSDs and then I assumed that what happened was that the differential was what caused my momentary loss of traction and that, combined with the slick surface and my forward motion, caused the spin.

Ever since then I've been very wary of automatic differentials of any kind. My 99 T4R had the E-locker, but of course I could control that.

I'd love to have something that will give me better traction on/off road, but the $1500+ price tag for an ARB setup (and that was years ago - for all I know it might be $2000 now) put me off.

A TT or something similar might be the way to go, but as I said I'm concerned about it causing a loss of traction as I described above. I know they don't get a lot of snow in MD, but have you ever experienced anything similar?

It's worth noting that in both of the loss-of-traction instances, I was in 2wd (the Montero was a part-time 4wd vehicle and I was driving it in 2wd at the time, and the ranger of course was a RWD only.) Also, this was before the advent of modern skid control/traction control and ABS.

Has anyone else here experienced this kind of "kicking out" or loss of traction in an LSD or auto-locker? I'm curious to know.

Also, what was the cost of your TT? IIRC the auto lockers run $300 - $500 not including installation, does that sound right? That's much more affordable to me.

Thanks in advance!
 
Mike: I'm interested in hearing more about the TT.

My concern about non-selectable lockers is this: I've had two vehicles with LSD's, a 1990 Mitsubishi Montero (which came from the factory with a rear LSD) and a 1999 Ford Ranger 4x2 (which I put an Auburn LSD into to give me a little bit of traction control since I was 2wd.)

On BOTH of these vehicles I had instances where, driving on hard packed snow (so, a rather slippery surface), the rear end of the truck "kicked out" for no reason and sent me spinning. On the Montero this resulted in a low speed accident when I hit another (parked) vehicle, on the Ranger it happened in the middle of the day on the busiest street in Laramie, WY, but by pure chance there were no cars around me when I spun 180 degrees into the oncoming lane, and I was able to recover and drive off.

At first I had no idea what happened and then I started reading up on automatic LSDs and then I assumed that what happened was that the differential was what caused my momentary loss of traction and that, combined with the slick surface and my forward motion, caused the spin.

Ever since then I've been very wary of automatic differentials of any kind. My 99 T4R had the E-locker, but of course I could control that.

I'd love to have something that will give me better traction on/off road, but the $1500+ price tag for an ARB setup (and that was years ago - for all I know it might be $2000 now) put me off.

A TT or something similar might be the way to go, but as I said I'm concerned about it causing a loss of traction as I described above. I know they don't get a lot of snow in MD, but have you ever experienced anything similar?

It's worth noting that in both of the loss-of-traction instances, I was in 2wd (the Montero was a part-time 4wd vehicle and I was driving it in 2wd at the time, and the ranger of course was a RWD only.) Also, this was before the advent of modern skid control/traction control and ABS.

Has anyone else here experienced this kind of "kicking out" or loss of traction in an LSD or auto-locker? I'm curious to know.

Also, what was the cost of your TT? IIRC the auto lockers run $300 - $500 not including installation, does that sound right? That's much more affordable to me.

Thanks in advance!

im just going to put it bluntly, you were driving too fast for the conditions.
that said... the reason it spun around, is because BOTH rear tires broke traction. the same thing CAN happen with an open differential, but its much more rare.
if only one tire spins, the other tire maintains the desired(straight) course. but when they both spin, you lose all lateral stability, and it goes sideways. however, that is NOT a fault of the TT, or other traction device. that is purely a driver issue.
 
Mike, I know you changed your gearing but do you have to with the True Trac? Or will it retrofit into any of our 4runners? What else would be needed (beside gear oil & gasket)?
 
Mike, I know you changed your gearing but do you have to with the True Trac? Or will it retrofit into any of our 4runners? What else would be needed (beside gear oil & gasket)?

No you don't have to get your gears changed, but I had mine done at ECGS so they did all the work. I don't think much else is needed in the way of gasket and fluids.
 
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128302.pdf

Page 13

Correct me if I am wrong, but it would be the 8" V6/Turbo/Diesel rear end. The years only go up to '95 on this chart, but I believe this is the one we need for our 4th Gen T4Rs.

No TT for the 8" IFS "clamshell" front differential...Oh, well, maybe we'll have to "Be Like Mike" and do the ARB air-locker in the front.

The 913A610 is what you want. The Toyota 8" has been used for so long long it's like they've given up on updating the descriptions.
 
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