2012 Chevy Sonic

[Thai]

Hey all,

My brother is thinking of getting a Sonic. After reading about it, i am quite impress with it...1.4L turbo (optional engine - horsepower/148 pound-feet) + 6 speed manual = 29/40 mpg! In addition, it is quite fun to drive...fast too (8.2 seconds 0-60)...relatively quiet on the highway...all forged rims...fairly roomy inside...looks good in LTZ form...and supposedly will get top crash test scores. My brother had a Honda CRX years ago...i think that this will be the 2nd coming of the CRX! And as a minor plus for me, it is fairly heavy (2800 lbs) for a subcompact car...i like heavy cars for crash protection sake against bigger vehicles.

Reviews:

2012 Chevrolet Sonic LTZ First Drive

2012 Chevrolet Sonic LTZ Turbo Hatchback - Short Take Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1105_2012_chevrolet_sonic_turbo_drive/

What do you guys think?

 

[Throwing Matches]

Why do auto manufacturers still make cars with reflector headlight housings?

Aside from that, it seems like a good little commuter car. I'm looking forward to finding out how reliable they will really be!

 

[Thai]

Why do auto manufacturers still make cars with reflector headlight housings?

Aside from that, it seems like a good little commuter car. I'm looking forward to finding out how reliable they will really be!

Probably because it is cheaper than projector type headlights. Remember, this car is a subcompact costing under $15k base.

Unfortunately, i just read that the Cruze (and Ford Focus & Fiesta) is not scoring very well in reliability from Consumer Reports.

 

[Bigmikelakers]

Hey Thai, has your brother considered a Yaris? They seem like the most reliable small car out there.

 

[Thai]

Hey Thai, has your brother considered a Yaris? They seem like the most reliable small car out there.

Too boring for him...he wants the old Honda CRX back. He likes manual tranny. He is also considering Chevy Cruze Eco. Reliability has been a problem for the Cruze too according to CR.

 

[Quentin]

Too boring for him...he wants the old Honda CRX back. He likes manual tranny. He is also considering Chevy Cruze Eco. Reliability has been a problem for the Cruze too according to CR.

The recent C&D subcompact comparo loved the 5MT Yaris SE for handling. They said the chassis was very lively and responsive.

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...o5-nissan-versa-toyota-yaris-comparison-tests

And the Sonic weighs 2800lbs. Yaris is 2300lbs.

 

[Thai]

The recent C&D subcompact comparo loved the 5MT Yaris SE for handling. They said the chassis was very lively and responsive.

Chevy Sonic vs. Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Kia Rio5, Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris - Comparison Tests

And the Sonic weighs 2800lbs. Yaris is 2300lbs.

Thanks for the link...i will show my brother. As for weight, i actually prefer the heavier weight, as long as it does not damage fuel economy too much. Heavier weight = better chances of surviving a crash! For me personally, i think that 2800 is kinda light for Texas highways, which features big SUVs and trucks. When i got my Prius, this was the biggest thing for me...and the Prius weighs around 3100 lbs.

The other thing is that the negatives on the Yaris are pretty significant:
"This bargain-basement binster would have posed a sterner threat to the Chevrolet Sonic but for three faults. First, it needs a sixth gear. Second, it is noisy, although our ears suggest that it is merely a quantity-of-noise problem. Much of the racket seems to emanate from wind tornado-ing over that massive single wiper, which surely must have been yanked off a Greyhound bus. Third—and most damaging—is the driver’s seating position, combined with a steering wheel that does not telescope. The pilot finds himself hunched over the wheel, his nose seemingly jammed into the IP, his left knee hoisted rearward and skyward by an intrusive wheel well."

My brother likes to row gears himself...and obviously, 6-gear MT is nice. Secondly, it will likely be his ONLY car for family and long travels...so, a quieter car would be nice. And lastly, since this is his long distance driver, a poor seating is diasastrous.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

...fast too (8.2 seconds 0-60)...


Thai,I think you've been driving your Prius too long. :hiding:

 

[Thai]

...fast too (8.2 seconds 0-60)...


Thai,I think you've been driving your Prius too long. :hiding:

Ron, that's just wrong!!!!

 

[Quentin]

Thanks for the link...i will show my brother. As for weight, i actually prefer the heavier weight, as long as it does not damage fuel economy too much. Heavier weight = better chances of surviving a crash! For me personally, i think that 2800 is kinda light for Texas highways, which features big SUVs and trucks. When i got my Prius, this was the biggest thing for me...and the Prius weighs around 3100 lbs.

The other thing is that the negatives on the Yaris are pretty significant:
"This bargain-basement binster would have posed a sterner threat to the Chevrolet Sonic but for three faults. First, it needs a sixth gear. Second, it is noisy, although our ears suggest that it is merely a quantity-of-noise problem. Much of the racket seems to emanate from wind tornado-ing over that massive single wiper, which surely must have been yanked off a Greyhound bus. Third—and most damaging—is the driver’s seating position, combined with a steering wheel that does not telescope. The pilot finds himself hunched over the wheel, his nose seemingly jammed into the IP, his left knee hoisted rearward and skyward by an intrusive wheel well."

My brother likes to row gears himself...and obviously, 6-gear MT is nice. Secondly, it will likely be his ONLY car for family and long travels...so, a quieter car would be nice. And lastly, since this is his long distance driver, a poor seating is diasastrous.

In all fairness, seating position varies person to person. Some body types and personal preferences require all sorts of adjustability. I doubt Toyota put a seating position that was inherently bad... probably just not enough adjustment features to get absolutely everyone comfortable. I can't disagree on the noise. My personal opinion on the 6 speed gearboxes in these small, low powered cars is that automakers are using them to hide the fat. In order to get the good EPA highway ratings, they need a 2nd OD gear that they can lug around in even though you'll be downshifting for the slightest hill. If this were my family's only car, I'd not be looking at the subcompacts, though. There is practically no trunk space in any of them with the seats up. A Jetta Sportwagon, despite the lower gas mileage, would be a far, far better family ride. It is still built off the Golf VI platform (not the new Jetta platform) and that is a super quiet, roomy ride that a family could actually use.

Oh yeah, wait for the full reviews. I don't know why, but it seems like short takes and first drives are always overly positive; glossing over the bad. The bad bits (especially ergo or usability) don't come out until someone has had it a week.

 

[Thai]

In all fairness, seating position varies person to person. Some body types and personal preferences require all sorts of adjustability. I doubt Toyota put a seating position that was inherently bad...

Well, the competition has it...and thus, the Yaris lacks flexibility in this aspect. It is not like the Sonic or others have horrible seating DESPITE telescoping wheel. The Sonic, for example, has excellent seating with the telescoping wheel. You can't say the same about the Yaris.

My personal opinion on the 6 speed gearboxes in these small, low powered cars is that automakers are using them to hide the fat. In order to get the good EPA highway ratings, they need a 2nd OD gear that they can lug around in even though you'll be downshifting for the slightest hill.

You're right...it is called having your cake and eating it too! :hungry: Sonic is fast (for a subcompact) and fuel efficient...what more do you want?! And add to it a very good MT...and i doubt that people mind shifting all that much. In addition, because the Sonic turbo engine's emphasis on low and midrange torque, you may not need to shift out of OD all that much as compared to a high-revving naturally-aspirated 4-banger. Sonic's powertrain is very powerful for a subcompact, even if it is slightly fat for a subcompact.

If this were my family's only car, I'd not be looking at the subcompacts, though. There is practically no trunk space in any of them with the seats up. A Jetta Sportwagon, despite the lower gas mileage, would be a far, far better family ride. It is still built off the Golf VI platform (not the new Jetta platform) and that is a super quiet, roomy ride that a family could actually use.

Well, VWs are horribly unreliable...with high maintenance after warranty period. Not what i would want in his ONLY car in the house! I agree with you about the subcompacts...i prefer that he buys something bigger/heavier. (And this is why i prefer the Sonic's heavy weight over the others in its class.) He is also considering the Chevy Cruze ECO, which is a great car. However, as noted above, 1st year reliability per Consumer Reports have not been glowing. I also like the Ford Focus. But, i need to see what my CR rate it so low...is it due to mechanical problems or something minor?? I am trying to also get him to consider a Prius or even a used Prius. But, he says that the used Prius is too expensive (damn amazing resale value!) and a bit too boring. I can't argue with those two arguments!

Oh yeah, wait for the full reviews. I don't know why, but it seems like short takes and first drives are always overly positive; glossing over the bad. The bad bits (especially ergo or usability) don't come out until someone has had it a week.

Well, your link shows a full blown comparo. Short take is pretty extensive.

Comments in bold.

 

[Quentin]

Comments in bold.

My beef with the comparo is that they dedicate about 5 paragraphs to each car and that is it. I'm talking about the single car reviews where the reviewer keeps them for a week. Those tend to bring out the devils. I'm not saying the sonic isn't a good car. I have no idea if it is. Too often, particularly with domestic cars that replace dreadful domestic cars, they can't believe how amazing the new car is after the first drive. The first drives of the Cobalt were glowing, too, because the Cavi was so bad and it turned out the Cobalt was a bit of a ****, too. The Aveo was so awful that I think anything competitive will give the "I can't believe how good this is!" response.

I'm unsure how the Cruze gets below average on the CR document. Just like the 4Runner, it has red circles everywhere except for the expected reliability. If the Cruze is crap, though, the Sonic shares an engine with it and was designed by GM Korea, just like the Cruze.

VWs are pretty poor reliability wise. I sold my '07 GTI for that reason. Some people are willing to put up with it. That said, if reliability is so important, why's he considering a first year model designed by Daewoo... with a turbocharger? A Honda Fit would be a safe bet if reliability mattered most. If you check out the data that C&D got from that comparo, the Fit was right in the fight with everyone else economy wise despite considerably lower ratings. Isn't the Sonic w/ the 1.4T pushing $17k anyway? Mazda 3 with the Sky engine is about the same cost. I'd just be test driving everything under the sun before I determined that the Sonic was hands down the way to go. On paper, it might be. That doesn't always translate to the real world.

 

[Thai]

My beef with the comparo is that they dedicate about 5 paragraphs to each car and that is it. Too often, particularly with domestic cars that replace dreadful domestic cars, they can't believe how amazing the new car is after the first drive.

BUT, this is why the COMPARO is so great! Because it takes the "wow, it is so much better than before" feeling out of the question...and you compare it to other cars in the same class! Single reviews can be easily influenced by the "wow" factor, but in a comparo, this feeling goes out the window because the editors are forced to compare it to something from another company.

I'm unsure how the Cruze gets below average on the CR document. Just like the 4Runner, it has red circles everywhere except for the expected reliability.

Cool, you have the magazine...good to know...thanks!

VWs are pretty poor reliability wise. That said, if reliability is so important, why's he considering a first year model designed by Daewoo... with a turbocharger? A Honda Fit would be a safe bet if reliability mattered most. If you check out the data that C&D got from that comparo, the Fit was right in the fight with everyone else economy wise despite considerably lower ratings. Isn't the Sonic w/ the 1.4T pushing $17k anyway? Mazda 3 with the Sky engine is about the same cost.

The reason i guess that my brother (and myself) like the Sonic is because i have not seen any negative reliability data on it other than the "Predicted Reliability" rating, despite the good individual scores. This is NOT the case with VW...they are just bad...and maintenance costs are huge. Honda Fit is nice, but noisy and too twitchy on the highway (i have testdriven it). In addition, crash test scores have not been great for either Fit or Yaris (2011 model).

As for the Mazda Sky, it looks horrible...and i think that it options out to around $20-21k...maybe i am wrong.

Comments in bold.

And here is a bit of disappointing crash test score for Mazda 3: http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Sho...-Newer+Vehicles/Vehicle-Detail?vehicleId=6141

 

[Quentin]

Comments in bold.

And here is a bit of disappointing crash test score for Mazda 3: 2012 Mazda Mazda3 5 HB FWD | Safercar -- NHTSA

Mazda 3 w/ skyactiv is $19700 including destination for the i touring. Dunno what his "must have options" are that would require the grand touring, etc. I think it is the most handsome of the small cars out there. Other than the smile, it is a cleanly styled car.

I honestly don't expect the Sonic to do any better in crash testing. Impreza hatch w/ 2.0L, AWD, and 5MT does 33mpg on the highway if safety is No.1. Subarus are always built like tanks.

There really can't be any neg reliability data on the Sonic; it is brand new. That is like saying I wasn't rejected by Harvard since I never applied. :biggrin2:

Check out truedelta.com's price tool. It will let you check off must have options and tell you what package you'd need to get those options, what you're paying for those options, and what you're paying for options you don't want. Great tool. I've been using it like crazy to compare the CT, Prius, and Prius v.

 

[Thai]

I think it is the most handsome of the small cars out there. Other than the smile, it is a cleanly styled car.

I honestly don't expect the Sonic to do any better in crash testing. Impreza hatch w/ 2.0L, AWD, and 5MT does 33mpg on the highway if safety is No.1. Subarus are always built like tanks.

There really can't be any neg reliability data on the Sonic; it is brand new. That is like saying I wasn't rejected by Harvard since I never applied. :biggrin2:

Isn't the smile enough??!! Other than that, i don't see anything special about it...certainly not any better looking than a Focus or Cruze. I do hear that handling is pretty damn good.

Well, that remains to be seen, but the Sonic is already a top choice by IIHS, including a strong roof strength among the other top scores. And Chevy predicts that it will certainly get 5-stars in the new NHTSA ratings...but that remains to be seen. If it is true, then yeah, the Sonic is better than Mazda 3 in the crash test department, esp. the side crash test. Note also that the Mazda 3 does not weigh much more than the Sonic either (both about 2800-2900 lbs)...so, weight does not favor the Mazda 3 (as in a head-on collision vs. a bigger car).

As for Subarus, i am sure that the new ones will be good...but the Forester, for example, did not do so well in the side crash test. The new Imprezas are impressive on paper...will wait for the real reviews. However, my brother has ruled out the need for AWD...and just want to hit 40 mpg.

And it should be noted that the Mazda 3 Skyactiv is pretty slow...aka Prius slow...more than a full second behind the Sonic!! Subaru Impreza is equally slow too!

For me, if i were to go that route (compacts), then my top choice is Focus, next Cruze........and then maybe Mazda 3 at a distant 3rd. I just love the Focus and what Ford has done to it...and i am sure that Ford will update the dual-clutch transmission software for better performance in the near future.

As for reliability, i am basing it more on what the Cruze does, rather than the actual Sonic data...i thought that it was obvious since the Sonic just came out within the past month or two.

 

[Thai]

I've been using it like crazy to compare the CT, Prius, and Prius v.

I don't know...the new Camry Hybrid looks pretty good to me...great mileage, quiet ride, and a pretty nice stereo system to boot! That may be my next car down the road.

 

[Quentin]

I don't know...the new Camry Hybrid looks pretty good to me...great mileage, quiet ride, and a pretty nice stereo system to boot! That may be my next car down the road.

If I could get a Camry Hybrid with the SE exterior and interior, I'd be willing to give up a hatch. Being a youngin', I have a hard time accepting a non-black interior. As of right now, I just love having a hatch/lift back so much. It is just so damn convenient.

 

[Thai]

If I could get a Camry Hybrid with the SE exterior and interior, I'd be willing to give up a hatch. Being a youngin', I have a hard time accepting a non-black interior. As of right now, I just love having a hatch/lift back so much. It is just so damn convenient.

I agree...but ya know, i am getting up in age....

 

[034RUNNER]

Aren't they turbo? That's really the only thing they have going for it. I personally wouldn't pursue one. It's a Chevy, enough said.

I'm not a hybrid fan. I would rather get a used car that's nice and decent, and mechanically sound instead of something brand new and boring all around.

 

[Thai]

Aren't they turbo? That's really the only thing they have going for it. I personally wouldn't pursue one. It's a Chevy, enough said.

I'm not a hybrid fan. I would rather get a used car that's nice and decent, and mechanically sound instead of something brand new and boring all around.

Sonics come in both non-turbo and turbo forms. My brother wants the turbo version. However, i checked it out this past weekend...way too small! With one stroller, it takes up the whole cargo area. So, it may be a Chevy Cruze Eco...because my brother wants 6-speed manual along with turbo engine.

A used car may not hold up over the long haul. My brother will likely keep whatever car he gets for a long time. He needs a practical fuel efficient safe car that is also very reliable (cheap to maintain). Not many used cars provide all of these requirements.

But, like you, my brother still want something with a little fun in it. Chevrolet (and Ford) have improved as of late models...so, i am OK with the domestics (not Chrysler though).