2017 Honda Ridgeline

[Thai]

"Yes."A Wrangler-based truck is expected to arrive in 2017, sometime after the launch of the next Wrangler. And it'll be built in Toledo next to its sibling. Now that's more like it!!! :hiding:

That's an option...but my fear is that it will have crappy mileage and low payload. Off-road capable...for sure, but may not be what i am looking for.

 

[Inv4drZm]

It is amazing at how many people recommend minivans! I guess that i can always have TWO minivans in the garage! :israel:

What are these "truck" capabilities that you are talking about? Towing? Off-roading? Carrying wood?

Yes, like actual 4 wheel drive with the ability to lock diffs & fit bigger tires.
Payload capacity, but I'm just assuming the Taco's to be greater.
Roof rack
And some people may not like it because it rides too much like a "car".
Without driving it, to me, the Ridgeline is the least truck-like truck on the market.
Sure, the Ridgeline could beat other small trucks in modern amenities and gadgetry, but that's about it.
What I'm trying to say, a person that is looking for a "truck" won't buy this. Don't get me wrong, this is a more than capable truck for 70% of truck owners today, but it will only appeal to 20% of that market.

 

[Thai]

Yes, like actual 4 wheel drive with the ability to lock diffs & fit bigger tires.
Payload capacity, but I'm just assuming the Taco's to be greater.
Roof rack
And some people may not like it because it rides too much like a "car".
Without driving it, to me, the Ridgeline is the least truck-like truck on the market.
Sure, the Ridgeline could beat other small trucks in modern amenities and gadgetry, but that's about it.
What I'm trying to say, a person that is looking for a "truck" won't buy this. Don't get me wrong, this is a more than capable truck for 70% of truck owners today, but it will only appeal to 20% of that market.

Average customers need 4-LO and lockers and big off-road tires? No. So, i assume that your 4runner has LOCKERS front and rear?

But, i bet that the Ridgeline will run circles around Tacoma in snow!

Roof rack? Why do you assume that Ridgeline won't have it?

Payload...Ridgeline supposedly has payload near 1600 lbs. Tacoma has payload of 1440 lbs max.

Ridgeline is also likely safer in a crash. Quieter. Roomier interior. Cargo capacity is more flexible. Better fuel economy. Braking, acceleration, and handling ALL better.

And it looks like that YOU do care about highway manners...because you sound deadened your whole 4runner to make it quieter!

As for appeal, you may be right...but that certainly does not make it any less capable for the average customer.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I never said looks weren't important. I wouldn't have bought a 4Runner if I though it was ugly. What I said was looks don't define the person. Many people get that confused. They think their lifted bro truck is who they are and makes them tough, just like they think their truck looks. Many look down their nose at mini vans or CUVs because they think they are "soft" and more importantly they think their owners are soft for driving them! A guy I had dinner with over the holidays is a MMA fight trainer from Wilmington, NC. He was driving a new CR-V. Yeah, go ahead and make fun of that...


By your definition then there is no use for any pickup trucks. I just hauled a bunch of crap to the dump. I rented a small open trailer for the job. The stuff included parts of a deer that had been killed by animals on the back part of my property. Sorry, not gonna put stuff like that in ANY enclosed space.
Another: Refrigerator.
Another: Saplings with a 30 gallon root ball.
Another: Sofa
Another: Tall bookshelves.

These are things that I have hauled in the past 12 months that I have had to use a small trailer for because they wouldn't fit in the 4Runner or if I had one, a minivan.

We have fit most of that in the Odyssey (though I don't know how big your sapling, couch, or bookshelves were) with the second row removed. I probably wouldn't put animal carcasses in there for sure.

But the Ridgeline seems to be a "I bought it because I needed a 'pick-up truck' bed... ONCE and that's it", then again it's the same people who buy Tacomas when they'd be better off renting a trailer for the one time a year they actually need a bed. Or the people who buy a F150 or Tundra because they think they need a truck and then end up trading it in because it sucks up gas and they can't use it as a minivan.

As a family vehicle it seems pointless for an urban going family, throw all that good Costco food in the back to get rained on? Let's throw all our luggage and crap for the road trip in the bed so we can't stretch out and sleep or get to the cooler without pulling over? As a more rural vehicle I couldn't see it being worthwhile nor worth the effort compared to more capable small pick-ups and/or SUVs for around the property work, farming, ect. As a small business vehicle, aside from the bed for things like saplings or awkward furniture; they'd be better off with something like a Transit Connect or small minivan/van like vehicle due to the security and versatility a vehicle like that offers.

It all comes down to the fact it's a glorified Ranchero... which kinda died off because a car trying to be a truck wasn't all that appealing or useful. As for gas mileage, I really don't see the point of bickering over 15 City / 21 Highway (17 Combined) for a 2014 Ridgeline 4WD vs. the 2014 Tacoma 4WD V6 5-Spd Auto which is rated 16 City / 21 Highway (18 Combined) as it's pretty even to me. At that point it rolls over into the whole, "If you're bickering about MPG on a hauling vehicle, you're in the wrong vehicle to begin with..." discussion.

As a family vehicle for the once or twice a year you may actually really NEED the bed, it seems pointless. As a mid-sized truck it is inferior to its BoF brethren in many respects for more robust usage off-road, yet the things that it does have over the BoF design in that respect really end up being a washed out or comparable to a good sized mini-van and starts to beg the question, "do you really need that bed? why not just a good van?"

As a Rural vehicle it's fairly underclassed by it's more robust BoF brethren that would be better off on the grassy fields, rutted roads, and harsher terrain of a ranch, construction site, logging road, ect. So unless the vehicle rarely sees that type of terrian, it sort of goes back to the whole "do you really need that bed on your Ranchero?"

As a Commercial vehicle for a small business it's once again in a spot where it doesn't really offer much more than a good small van like a Transit Connect. The only benefit being that it has an open bed for more awkward sized stuff (though the Transit Connect and other similar vehicles tend to already come with higher cargo areas for that reason.

It's just not something that seems to have a lot of purpose to me that couldn't be better served with a better designed vehicle. I suppose as a second or third oddball vehicle to round out the garage it seems to work. But it just doesn't strike me as something worth going out of my way to get vs. Toyota Tacoma, GMC/Chevy Canyon/Colorado, Ford Transit Connect, Nissan NV200, Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, ect.

 

[Thai]

But the Ridgeline seems to be a "I bought it because I needed a 'pick-up truck' bed... ONCE and that's it", then again it's the same people who buy Tacomas when they'd be better off renting a trailer for the one time a year they actually need a bed. Or the people who buy a F150 or Tundra because they think they need a truck and then end up trading it in because it sucks up gas and they can't use it as a minivan.

So, for you, 99% of folks need a minivan/cargo van. Yet, do you own one? How often do you take your 2004 4Runner to the Rubicon trail or even off-roading? I keep hearing your mom's minivan...where's your van?

So, it is either a lifted rig with lockers to maximize the frame design OR a minivan that is stripped on the inside to carry dirty crap.

Where do you recon i put my kids in all of this? Is that what roof rack is for?! :wow:

Yet, in all this, you own a 4runner....

Yeah, sorry dude, you make zero sense to me. It sounds like someone who THINKS he knows what is good for everyone yet does not practice what he preach. :noidea:

 

[theBEAR]

You're right...IF we're talking about Aztec. The Honda Ridgeline is conservative looking. Beauty is in the eyes of beholder. For me, Ridgeline looks OK.

Obviously, i do not expect a single guy to buy a minivan...nor would i question someone who buys a roadster. However, my point was that i do NOT really care what others think of me driving a certain vehicle...and if they do, then i feel bad for them.

Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, I can't understand why Honda engineers would make it look so . . . SOFT. This does not fit my idea of a truck in the least (aside from the obvious anatomical features)I love Hondas and have owned them in one form or another for over ten years. I can honestly say that I would have loved to have bought a capable 4WD Honda, but they do not exist (I'm talking 4Runner / FJ / Xterra / Jeep capable). THIS is what they produce. I will be VERY interested to see the sales figures on this piece of art.

I do agree with your thoughts on people judging others on their choice of car. What you drive does say a mouthful about you, but not nearly enough to justify a judgment call.

I've considered the Ridgeline to always be ugly. At least the original one was ugly but unique. This one is ugly and bland. It's a unibody, FWD based "truck". It's a "truck" for people that like Hondas, and I don't mean the crowd with NSXs and S2000s.

Ugly and bland. Exactly.

I never said looks weren't important. I wouldn't have bought a 4Runner if I though it was ugly. What I said was looks don't define the person. Many people get that confused. They think their lifted bro truck is who they are and makes them tough, just like they think their truck looks. Many look down their nose at mini vans or CUVs because they think they are "soft" and more importantly they think their owners are soft for driving them! A guy I had dinner with over the holidays is a MMA fight trainer from Wilmington, NC. He was driving a new CR-V. Yeah, go ahead and make fun of that...

Very well said and I wholeheartedly agree with you. People who look down on others for their choice of vehicles just highlight their immaturity and lack of intellectual depth. Its usually the most insecure people who are always throwing mud around at everybody else anyways.

If only those guys with lifted bro trucks knew what people REALLY thought about them... they might cry.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So, for you, 99% of folks need a minivan/cargo van. Yet, do you own one? How often do you take your 2004 4Runner to the Rubicon trail or even off-roading? I keep hearing your mom's minivan...where's your van?

So, it is either a lifted rig with lockers to maximize the frame design OR a minivan that is stripped on the inside to carry dirty crap.

Where do you recon i put my kids in all of this? Is that what roof rack is for?! :wow:

Yet, in all this, you own a 4runner....

Yeah, sorry dude, you make zero sense to me. It sounds like someone who THINKS he knows what is good for everyone yet does not practice what he preach. :noidea:

I'm just saying, people who tout it as a superior vehicle to a true truck or a minivan don't make much sense to me; when you break it down it really doesn't do anything better than the other vehicles and as an entire package it basically seems out of place (much like the Prius V with it's ridiculous almost minivan size, yet uses the same powerplant as the standard Prius and has no sliding doors or significantly larger cargo area, because PRIUS!). A lot of people I have talked to about it tout it as a better delivery vehicle, a better family vehicle, ect. I've also heard the "it gets better gas mileage than a Tacoma (which it doesn't apparently)".

Well I keep comparing it to the Honda Odyssey because it's basically that with the back half cut open and a IRS. So far with a good rubber mat in the back we can fit 4 Adults (probably 5 if ours was a bench second row) and a ton of stuff in the back of the Odyssey with no problems. On long trips we remove one of the second row and make a bed to rest in and still have the cooler and other luggage easily fit in the vehicle (after we clean the back of course), something I doubt you could do for the Ridgeline unless you strap your passengers to the bed to take a nap?

As for my 4Runner? It fits the needs and wants I had when I went to buy the vehicle. It's a V8 (this is mainly due to a horrible experience with a GM V6 SUV where I swore I would never buy a mid-sized truck/SUV with anything less than 8 cylinders), BoF (for strength, rigidity, and ability to accept extra armour as well as sustain my driving style off-road), true 4WD vehicle that I do use off-road occasionally (unfortunately life has been fighting me on making it a "regularly" part, though I may rectify that with a relocation out of California in the near future). I also mention a stripped down model because a lot of people who use these claim it is better as a "rugged" vehicle, which I don't see how compared to say a Transit Connect or "stripped down" minivan. Also where you put your kids is your own thing I guess? I drove many hours and miles in a rather filthy old Chrysler Town and Country before my parents got the Odyssey and I'm no worse for wear (the majority of it is probably from being dropped on my head and my affinity for shiny paint chips that were rather metallic tasting. )

Had I needed a bed I would have opted for a GMC/Chevy 1500 or 2500 Truck, but I had no reason for a full-sized pick-up truck. I don't own or run a small business at the moment so a small or large delivery van was unnecessary (though I have seen a beautiful Mercedes Sprinter turned into an impressive mobile automotive workstation/diagnostic station that did have me considering taking a couple hundred thousand dollar loan out). A sedan would not have met my needs at the time as I was hauling an engine and transmission for the RX7 in the back for quite a while and a minivan did not meet my off-road & exterior protection needs.

So I don't see the hypocrasy there since the 4Runner fits the majority of my needs and some wants better than the Odyssey did. Though to be honest, if I were going to get a minivan it would be a Toyota Sienna with AWD as it's a nicer vehicle in my opinion (though the new Odyssey's internal vacuum system is pretty cool.)

 

[Thai]

Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, I can't understand why Honda engineers would make it look so . . . SOFT. This does not fit my idea of a truck in the least (aside from the obvious anatomical features)I love Hondas and have owned them in one form or another for over ten years. I can honestly say that I would have loved to have bought a capable 4WD Honda, but they do not exist (I'm talking 4Runner / FJ / Xterra / Jeep capable). THIS is what they produce. I will be VERY interested to see the sales figures on this piece of art.

Have you seen the 1st gen?! That was Honda getting wild!

Honda is very different from Toyota. Honda don't have many platforms to choose from. They are limited financially, compared to Toyota. So, basically, all their cars are based around same concept and then they make a million variations. Toyota is in itself successful then you add in Lexus profits....

 

[1engineer]

I'm just saying, people who tout it as a superior vehicle to a true truck or a minivan don't make much sense to me; when you break it down it really doesn't do anything better than the other vehicles and as an entire package it basically seems out of place (much like the Prius V with it's ridiculous almost minivan size, yet uses the same powerplant as the standard Prius and has no sliding doors or significantly larger cargo area, because PRIUS!). A lot of people I have talked to about it tout it as a better delivery vehicle, a better family vehicle, ect. I've also heard the "it gets better gas mileage than a Tacoma (which it doesn't apparently)".

Well I keep comparing it to the Honda Odyssey because it's basically that with the back half cut open and a IRS. So far with a good rubber mat in the back we can fit 4 Adults (probably 5 if ours was a bench second row) and a ton of stuff in the back of the Odyssey with no problems. On long trips we remove one of the second row and make a bed to rest in and still have the cooler and other luggage easily fit in the vehicle (after we clean the back of course), something I doubt you could do for the Ridgeline unless you strap your passengers to the bed to take a nap?

As for my 4Runner? It fits the needs and wants I had when I went to buy the vehicle. It's a V8 (this is mainly due to a horrible experience with a GM V6 SUV where I swore I would never buy a mid-sized truck/SUV with anything less than 8 cylinders), BoF (for strength, rigidity, and ability to accept extra armour as well as sustain my driving style off-road), true 4WD vehicle that I do use off-road occasionally (unfortunately life has been fighting me on making it a "regularly" part, though I may rectify that with a relocation out of California in the near future). I also mention a stripped down model because a lot of people who use these claim it is better as a "rugged" vehicle, which I don't see how compared to say a Transit Connect or "stripped down" minivan. Also where you put your kids is your own thing I guess? I drove many hours and miles in a rather filthy old Chrysler Town and Country before my parents got the Odyssey and I'm no worse for wear (the majority of it is probably from being dropped on my head and my affinity for shiny paint chips that were rather metallic tasting. )

Had I needed a bed I would have opted for a GMC/Chevy 1500 or 2500 Truck, but I had no reason for a full-sized pick-up truck. I don't own or run a small business at the moment so a small or large delivery van was unnecessary (though I have seen a beautiful Mercedes Sprinter turned into an impressive mobile automotive workstation/diagnostic station that did have me considering taking a couple hundred thousand dollar loan out). A sedan would not have met my needs at the time as I was hauling an engine and transmission for the RX7 in the back for quite a while and a minivan did not meet my off-road & exterior protection needs.

So I don't see the hypocrasy there since the 4Runner fits the majority of my needs and some wants better than the Odyssey did. Though to be honest, if I were going to get a minivan it would be a Toyota Sienna with AWD as it's a nicer vehicle in my opinion (though the new Odyssey's internal vacuum system is pretty cool.)

Do me a favor: Hold your opinion of the Ridgeline until you drive one. Make sure you open the trunk that will hold a week's worth of luggage for a coupla people or luggage for four for a long weekend.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Have you seen the 1st gen?! That was Honda getting wild!

Honda is very different from Toyota. Honda don't have many platforms to choose from. They are limited financially, compared to Toyota. So, basically, all their cars are based around same concept and then they make a million variations. Toyota is in itself successful then you add in Lexus profits....

I would say that Honda is actually the smarter one for not expanding their platforms so widely as Toyota did. We didn't have nearly as many problems as we do now when it was a handful of platforms. Not to mention Toyota's styling department has been notoriously unaware for decades, we don't have a singular brand identity compared to say a Honda, Chevy, Dodge, BMW, ect. At least while the Honda Civic has mainly looked the same since the 80's until '07 and such; the Corolla and Camry have varied a ton and now look nearly identical in their current forms.

I'll give credit, Honda has been very tame with their styling; but they always knew where they made their money. I'm a bit surprised that they don't have as much money as Toyota considering Acura does pretty well in the US and back overseas Honda is pretty good.

 

[Thai]

I'm just saying, people who tout it as a superior vehicle to a true truck or a minivan don't make much sense to me; when you break it down it really doesn't do anything better than the other vehicles and as an entire package it basically seems out of place (much like the Prius V with it's ridiculous almost minivan size, yet uses the same powerplant as the standard Prius and has no sliding doors or significantly larger cargo area, because PRIUS!). A lot of people I have talked to about it tout it as a better delivery vehicle, a better family vehicle, ect. I've also heard the "it gets better gas mileage than a Tacoma (which it doesn't apparently)".

Well I keep comparing it to the Honda Odyssey because it's basically that with the back half cut open and a IRS. So far with a good rubber mat in the back we can fit 4 Adults (probably 5 if ours was a bench second row) and a ton of stuff in the back of the Odyssey with no problems. On long trips we remove one of the second row and make a bed to rest in and still have the cooler and other luggage easily fit in the vehicle (after we clean the back of course), something I doubt you could do for the Ridgeline unless you strap your passengers to the bed to take a nap?

As for my 4Runner? It fits the needs and wants I had when I went to buy the vehicle. It's a V8 (this is mainly due to a horrible experience with a GM V6 SUV where I swore I would never buy a mid-sized truck/SUV with anything less than 8 cylinders), BoF (for strength, rigidity, and ability to accept extra armour as well as sustain my driving style off-road), true 4WD vehicle that I do use off-road occasionally (unfortunately life has been fighting me on making it a "regularly" part, though I may rectify that with a relocation out of California in the near future).

Had I needed a bed I would have opted for a GMC/Chevy 1500 or 2500 Truck, but I had no reason for a full-sized pick-up truck. I don't own or run a small business at the moment so a small or large delivery van was unnecessary (though I have seen a beautiful Mercedes Sprinter turned into an impressive mobile automotive workstation/diagnostic station that did have me considering taking a couple hundred thousand dollar loan out). A sedan would not have met my needs at the time as I was hauling an engine and transmission for the RX7 in the back for quite a while and a minivan did not meet my off-road & exterior protection needs.

So I don't see the hypocrasy there since the 4Runner fits the majority of my needs and some wants better than the Odyssey did. Though to be honest, if I were going to get a minivan it would be a Toyota Sienna with AWD as it's a nicer vehicle in my opinion (though the new Odyssey's internal vacuum system is pretty cool.)

Remember, this 2017 Ridgeline is DIFFERENT than the older model. So, mileage will likely be BETTER. I have no idea why you're comparing the old model.

It is so strange that you don't bother to read other posts...and just come to your own conclusion!

You make it sound like BoF is flawless and can take armor!! Didn't the 4th gen 4runner had a huge defect in the frame that cracked under pressure from armor??????? How about those FJs with their ripped front end??? BoF is good shit, right?!

Off-road occasionally sure sounds like Home Depot a few times a year!!!

Sorry, for occasional off-roading, you could have rented a Jeep and do it at any off-road park! The rest of the time, you needed a MINIVAN.

So, again, you fail to do what you preach. :noidea:

Toyota Sienna AWD...the one with the shitty run-flats, more maintenance, with zero additional clearance, and shitty on-demand system that is far from being responsive? The one you claim is so much better than Honda's?!!!

Oh well....

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Do me a favor: Hold your opinion of the Ridgeline until you drive one. Make sure you open the trunk that will hold a week's worth of luggage for a coupla people or luggage for four for a long weekend.

I suppose that's fair, the most I've driven one is only about 10miles and that's my standard Used-Car Test Drive up this really steep hill where I throw the cars around, engine brake, ect. to see if they hold up to my inspection quality standards. I haven't had the opportunity to take one on an "extended test drive."

Remember, this 2017 Ridgeline is DIFFERENT than the older model. So, mileage will likely be BETTER. I have no idea why you're comparing the old model.

It is so strange that you don't bother to read other posts...and just come to your own conclusion!

You make it sound like BoF is flawless and can take armor!! Didn't the 4th gen 4runner had a huge defect in the frame that cracked under pressure from armor??????? How about those FJs with their ripped front end??? BoF is good shit, right?!

Off-road occasionally sure sounds like Home Depot a few times a year!!!

Sorry, for occasional off-roading, you could have rented a Jeep and do it at any off-road park! The rest of the time, you needed a MINIVAN.

So, again, you fail to do what you preach. :noidea:

Toyota Sienna AWD...the one with the shitty run-flats, more maintenance, with zero additional clearance, and shitty on-demand system that is far from being responsive? The one you claim is so much better than Honda's?!!!

Oh well....

Well without MPG numbers from the current 2017 Ridgeline, comparing it to the 3rd Gen Tacoma's 19 city, 24 highway would be unfair; so I used the only data I had which was the 2014 vs. a similar Tacoma.

As for 4th Gens with cracked frames, I haven't actually seen or heard of any on the forum yet (and given how I throw mine on rocks and hit objects hard enough to dent an bend my RCI skidplates I would think my frame would have cracked by now if it was such an issue)? The FJs did have an issue with it, but those were usually the guys who really hammered on them (hence why the J150 platform was introduced in 2010, which is supposedly an upgraded J120, even though it measures the same), the earlier FJs were notorious for "fender cracking" where the reinforcement of the fenders in the CAB were not strong enough and over time would actually develop cracks.

Well I just was up in the snow a couple weeks before playing around, most of the fall I was recovering from a work related injury, that summer I played around a few times in Oregon and in Hollister, earlier in Spring I was in the dirt, then I was in Oregon playing in the snow at the beginning of last year. I do actually off-road the vehicle; the pin-stripes and scuffs all over the bumpers and skids will more than prove that. As for renting a Jeep, it's not what I would want; nor do I know of any companies that let you rent a fully modded jeep to trash around (though if there is a company like that... that may be interesting?)

Well the Toyota Sienna has quite a few recalls and campaigns, not sure what you mean by "extra maintenance", but I like the exterior and interior compared to the Honda Odyssey and Honda does not make an AWD Odyssey so... I would rather have an AWD Mini-Van than a FWD one IF I were going to get one to begin with as with some good winter tires I'd be happy with it in the snow (the 2WD Odyssey had some not so great moments in the snow from what I remember).

I'm not exactly sure what your point here is? Yes I am preferential to a BoF vehicle for Off-road or Truck use... I believe most everyone on this forum is since we all own and operate a 4Runner for off-road use? Yes I don't off-road my 4Runner all year long, but I am an adult and I have responsibilities and have to pay bills unfortunately; otherwise I'd love to spend more time camping and off-roading if I could. I find the Toyota Sienna appealing both from a cosmetic point and from the fact that it does offer an AWD where as the new Odyssey does not and has not, it's not the greatest minivan in the world, but I find it to be a better all around contender for what I would use it for. At this point it just seems like your trying to frantically trying to instigate something, though I'm not entirely sure what or why... I mean I just don't see the purpose or appeal of the Ridgeline and I made my case for it, it's not written in stone fact; but it's observations that seem pretty obvious to me.

 

[Thai]

I would say that Honda is actually the smarter one for not expanding their platforms so widely as Toyota did. We didn't have nearly as many problems as we do now when it was a handful of platforms. Not to mention Toyota's styling department has been notoriously unaware for decades, we don't have a singular brand identity compared to say a Honda, Chevy, Dodge, BMW, ect. At least while the Honda Civic has mainly looked the same since the 80's until '07 and such; the Corolla and Camry have varied a ton and now look nearly identical in their current forms.

I'll give credit, Honda has been very tame with their styling; but they always knew where they made their money. I'm a bit surprised that they don't have as much money as Toyota considering Acura does pretty well in the US and back overseas Honda is pretty good.

Uhhh no. Besides MDX, how many Acuras do you see on the road vs. the Lexus models? How many Pilots do you see vs. Highlander? etc.. No, Acura is NOT doing well! Their newer offerings are pure shit. Their new 9-speed tranny from German ZF brand suck donkey balls.

 

[Thai]

As for 4th Gens with cracked frames, I haven't actually seen or heard of any on the forum yet? The FJs did have an issue with it, but those were usually the guys who really hammered on them (hence why the J150 platform was introduced in 2010, which is supposedly an upgraded J120, even though it measures the same), the earlier FJs were notorious for "fender cracking" where the reinforcement of the fenders in the CAB were not strong enough and over time would actually develop cracks.

Well I just was up in the snow a couple weeks before playing around, most of the fall I was recovering from a work related injury, that summer I played around a few times in Oregon and in Hollister, earlier in Spring I was in the dirt, then I was in Oregon playing in the snow at the beginning of last year. I do actually off-road the vehicle; the pin-stripes and scuffs all over the bumpers and skids will more than prove that. As for renting a Jeep, it's not what I would want; nor do I know of any companies that let you rent a fully modded jeep to trash around (though if there is a company like that... that may be interesting?)

Well the Toyota Sienna has quite a few recalls and campaigns, not sure what you mean by "extra maintenance", but I like the exterior and interior compared to the Honda Odyssey and Honda does not make an AWD Odyssey so... I would rather have an AWD Mini-Van than a FWD one IF I were going to get one to begin with as with some good winter tires I'd be happy with it in the snow (the 2WD Odyssey had some not so great moments in the snow from what I remember).

I'm not exactly sure what your point here is?

For a big obese 4runner, it is NOT ideal on the trail either. Hell, even buying a used Jeep Wrangler would serve your purpose...and then buy your mom's Ody. Done deal!

Search for Blair's 4runner. He can tell you all about it. There has been at least a few cases i believe.

FJ...bullshit dude! I used to be on FJ forums and off-roaded with a few those folks. Even AFTER reinforcements, the fender still cracked with off-roading. And NO, there was no jumping or extra punishment that caused these torn fenders!!!!!!! Please don't push that lie dude. Many on FJ forums will kill you for that!

Have you read up on the Sienna's AWD system? You do realize that it is poorly responsive (aka slow to react!). You cannot have the powered rear seats because it cuts into the space.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

For a big obese 4runner, it is NOT ideal on the trail either. Hell, even buying a used Jeep Wrangler would serve your purpose...and then buy your mom's Ody. Done deal!

Search for Blair's 4runner. He can tell you all about it. There has been at least a few cases i believe.

FJ...bullshit dude! I used to be on FJ forums and off-roaded with a few those folks. Even AFTER reinforcements, the fender still cracked with off-roading. And NO, there was no jumping or extra punishment that caused these torn fenders!!!!!!! Please don't push that lie dude. Many on FJ forums will kill you for that!

Have you read up on the Sienna's AWD system? You do realize that it is poorly responsive (aka slow to react!). You cannot have the powered rear seats because it cuts into the space.

Will have to ask Blair next time I see him, he is a nice guy, used to be the DPMS for our dealership, don't remember him mentioning the frame issue but I'd be interested to know. Also I never said the fender cracking was a result of off-road use, I'm well aware it happened to even stock, never off-roaded FJs. I went over this with my friend when he bought his '07 FJ Cruiser; but the reason behind the cracking was a poor reinforcement structure in the fenders that was corrected in the 2010+ models (though there's a handful of threads I saw on the FJ Cruiser forums that some J150 units still had it). But that is still an issue with the Cab/Body not the frame, so I don't see why it was even mentioned.

As for the Sienna's system, the new system seems to react rather well; not sure about the old system. But I'd still rather have an AWD that isn't as good as one that isn't offered at all.

Edit-

I see where you thought I was referring to the fender cracking as a result of off-roading. That was my fault, I wrote that sentence poorly; it should be:

"I know the FJ's had issues with the actual frame developing cracks, but that was from really hammering them off-road (hence why the J150 platform was introduced, because it was supposed to fix that issue, even though the J150 measures the same as the J120); the earlier FJs were notorious for "fender cracking"...

 

[Thai]

Will have to ask Blair next time I see him, he is a nice guy, used to be the DPMS for our dealership, don't remember him mentioning the frame issue but I'd be interested to know. Also I never said the fender cracking was a result of off-road use, I'm well aware it happened to even stock, never off-roaded FJs. I went over this with my friend when he bought his '07 FJ Cruiser; but the reason behind the cracking was a poor reinforcement structure in the fenders that was corrected in the 2010+ models (though there's a handful of threads I saw on the FJ Cruiser forums that some J150 units still had it). But that is still an issue with the Cab/Body not the frame, so I don't see why it was even mentioned.

As for the Sienna's system, the new system seems to react rather well; not sure about the old system. But I'd still rather have an AWD that isn't as good as one that isn't offered at all.

Edit-

I see where you thought I was referring to the fender cracking as a result of off-roading. That was my fault, I wrote that sentence poorly; it should be:

"I know the FJ's had issues with the actual frame developing cracks, but that was from really hammering them off-road (hence why the J150 platform was introduced, because it was supposed to fix that issue, even though the J150 measures the same as the J120); the earlier FJs were notorious for "fender cracking"...

See...so, you thought that i did not know about these flaws of Toyota BoF?!

Even after the 2010, these fenders still crack with mild off-roading! The "fix" was a bandaid. The frame design is flawed. Thus, no real fix unless the whole thing is redesigned.

4th gen frame crack is real. In fact, the 5th gen 4runner has strengthened this weakness.

Blair: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/58669-motor-mount-frame-failure.html

Here's another guy on this forum: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/50242-uh-oh-my-frame-cracked.html

 

[BlackWorksInc]

See...so, you thought that i did not know about these flaws of Toyota BoF?!

Even after the 2010, these fenders still crack with mild off-roading! The "fix" was a bandaid. The frame design is flawed. Thus, no real fix unless the whole thing is redesigned.

4th gen frame crack is real. In fact, the 5th gen 4runner has strengthened this weakness.

Blair: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/58669-motor-mount-frame-failure.html

Here's another guy on this forum: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/50242-uh-oh-my-frame-cracked.html

Eh, I don't know if the 5th gen actually strengthened this, there's no real publicly available information on what the J150 actually strengthened over the J120 in terms of specific data (not that I have found unfortunately, would really love that data)... I haven't seen this issue on many 4th gens to be honest, I'm curious what caused it since that was a '08 and yet my '04 hasn't shown any signs of weakening after all the abuse I put it through. Tacoma frames were built from a different line, that's mainly why there's a rust recall on them specifically and not the 4Runner (even though the issue is not specific to that one frame but rather whatever they used as a protectant). Though I do recall someone mentioning something about the motor mounts being a bit weak a while back? I wonder if it was specific to V6 Engine mounts, also from Blair's pictures it looks like some sort of weld failure or something, really interesting stuff...

I also don't know if I would consider the Cab part of the frame, the fender cracking is something I am well aware of, but it's a design flaw in the FJ Body, not the FJ Frame; otherwise the issue would be endemic to J120/J150 vehicles.

 

[Thai]

Eh, I don't know if the 5th gen actually strengthened this, there's no real publicly available information on what the J150 actually strengthened over the J120 in terms of specific data (not that I have found unfortunately, would really love that data)... I haven't seen this issue on many 4th gens to be honest, I'm curious what caused it since that was a '08 and yet my '04 hasn't shown any signs of weakening after all the abuse I put it through. Tacoma frames were built from a different line, that's mainly why there's a rust recall on them specifically and not the 4Runner (even though the issue is not specific to that one frame but rather whatever they used as a protectant). Though I do recall someone mentioning something about the motor mounts being a bit weak a while back? I wonder if it was specific to V6 Engine mounts, also from Blair's pictures it looks like some sort of weld failure or something, really interesting stuff...

I also don't know if I would consider the Cab part of the frame, the fender cracking is something I am well aware of, but it's a design flaw in the FJ Body, not the FJ Frame; otherwise the issue would be endemic to J120/J150 vehicles.

Someone a while back posted 5th gen frame in that area and clearly Toyota addressed the issue.

Cracking frame and cracking body...same difference to end user. Again nothing is perfect. Your assumption making BoF design to be inherently superior is flawed.

Neither of this matters to me and my use. But I just wanted to show you the flaw of your argument.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Average customers need 4-LO and lockers and big off-road tires? No. So, i assume that your 4runner has LOCKERS front and rear?

But, i bet that the Ridgeline will run circles around Tacoma in snow!

Roof rack? Why do you assume that Ridgeline won't have it?

Payload...Ridgeline supposedly has payload near 1600 lbs. Tacoma has payload of 1440 lbs max.

Ridgeline is also likely safer in a crash. Quieter. Roomier interior. Cargo capacity is more flexible. Better fuel economy. Braking, acceleration, and handling ALL better.

And it looks like that YOU do care about highway manners...because you sound deadened your whole 4runner to make it quieter!

As for appeal, you may be right...but that certainly does not make it any less capable for the average customer.

I'm saying the Ridgeline will never have lockers and the ability to add larger tires. That's a negative thing when comparing their "truck" aspects.

Have you seen its roof rack; how do you tie something to that? IMO it looks more form over function.

Payload wise, 2016 Taco's is actually 1505 lbs. The Taco/Canyon/Colorado will be more suited for this role. Payload rating of the Ridgeline is equivalent to the Taco's at least, though I'm sure given the option the Taco's or diesel Canyon's a wiser choice too. I just don't have much faith in the Ridgeline's independent rear suspension.

The improved handling, braking, roomier interior and more flexible cargo capacity are due to it being "the least truck-like truck" on the market. I wasn't arguing that.

I only sound deadened my 4R because I wanted to thoroughly clean it anyway and for the larger mud terrains I'm planning for. Honestly though, I could care less if its loud or not.

I'm not trying to argue with you, we're actually mostly agreeing, I'm just trying to say, like BlackWorksInc, that the Ridgeline isn't the master of everything. It fills a small crack most people would overlook. If its niche role interests you, then it sounds like you have your mind made up.

You make it sound like BoF is flawless and can take armor!! Didn't the 4th gen 4runner had a huge defect in the frame that cracked under pressure from armor??????? How about those FJs with their ripped front end??? BoF is good shit, right?!

While we are on the subject, how many unibody's do you see offroad?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Someone a while back posted 5th gen frame in that area and clearly Toyota addressed the issue.

Cracking frame and cracking body...same difference to end user. Again nothing is perfect. Your assumption making BoF design to be inherently superior is flawed.

Neither of this matters to me and my use. But I just wanted to show you the flaw of your argument.

It's still superior if you're talking about off-road (which is really where BoF shines and why most everyone on this forum owns a 4Runner), it handles flex and torsion far better than a unibody does. The only unibodies you see off-road that don't need to be welded back up after a couple of uses are dedicated tube frames if you consider that a unibody.

The whole "Unit-Frame" excuse where they throw a rail under the body to "strengthen" it was and is done by Jeep and every non-Wrangler Jeep owner I know that bothers to off-road has either reinforced the hell out of their unibody with an exo/endo cage, frame brackets, ect. or are re-welding their unibodies regularly; or just outright getting new unibodies and transfering everything over to them once they crack up.

But again, I started my original response with "besides off-road" and in my other posts I mentioned specific uses where it doesn't stack up against a BoF Truck/SUV (Rural uses where off-roading becomes a necessity/common occurrence vs. Family or Commercial Use and thus a BoF Truck/SUV would be a better choice; a niche area by the way) I separated the three areas where to me the Ridgeline didn't really stand out or feel like it was better than alternative (3 areas that are typically thrown at me as where it shines.) It's unibody construction is not something that appeals to me nor that makes me think it's a worthwhile vehicle for specific uses, but as a family/commercial vehicle that can be overlooked as a BoF vehicle isn't really needed in those situations either.

~

Everytime I see a Honda Ridgeline, this is what comes to mind:

And that thing at least has a diesel...