2017 Honda Ridgeline

[Thai]

I've seen the IIHS testing for the 4Runner and made a point about it when I was making a different thread. But someone mentioned that that test was purposefully done differently on the 4Runner to maximize damage vs. normal testing on other unibodies. Which if you watch the video and compare the center line vs. the center line for this passenger car I have to actually admit that the vehicle might actually survive better had they replicated the test w

I'm not saying that it's safer, but I have to admit the IIHS video seems to be done deliberately to bypass the main bumper support and frame rail, vs. the other tested vehicles. Why I can't say, but it does increase damage potential and shows a difference in testing methods vs. Unibody's in an almost biased manner. I'd be curious what the logic behind it is.

Also the 3rd Gen Tacoma has a far beefier body mount designed for that IIHS testing, I'd actually like to see data between the Gen 2 & Gen 3 Tacomas to see how effective that reinforcement is; so technically the Gen 3 Tacoma is safer than the Gen 5 4Runner in that respect according to Toyota's supposed modifications to the J150 platform.


Again, so far Tacomas and 4Runners are running fine in the blizzards in the East and other horrid weather without issues on fairly stock wheels and tires. So I don't see how the Ridgeline has any significant advantage there, not to mention the Ridgeline would also have the same offset weight distribution since it's mainly designed to look and act as a truck.

Well again, you're assumption of better MPG is based on wishful thinking with no hard data yet. All we have to go by is the Gen 1 which had worse mileage than the Tacoma. At best I would assume the Gen 2 eeks out a smidge better than the Tacoma, but nothing note worthy.

Seriously, this is getting stupid. You're ASE certified mechanic and seemingly you making really ignorant statements. Sorry, not being mean. Damn dude.

Ok...youtube of Pilot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMtOcKK6I4o

See 0:27 seconds into it.

Youtube of 4runner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q70jNH-FnVY

See 0:22 seconds into it.

The reason for the difference is you're comparing a tiny car to a SUV!!! Honda Pilot and 4runner crashed within the same corner in front.

My mind is blown right now at this conversation. :redbrick:

PLEASE QUOTE MY POST IN THAT OTHER THREAD. I hope that other poster has not spread his "conspiracy theory" beyond this forum!

You think "beefier" body mounts will save the Tacoma? No! To improve on 4runner's dismal score, Toyota needs to redesigned the front end along with improvement to the body in front. Body mounts?! WTF dude.

Weight distribution?! Your arguments are really making my head hurt!! THINK. RWD vs. FWD with AWD and torque vectoring.

AGAIN, where is the most weight in a TRUCK (aka EMPTY BED)????????????????? Where is power delivered in a Tacoma vs. Ridgeline. Which has standard AWD and torque vectoring??? Tacoma is RWD only. You have to shift into 4-HI to get power to the front axle. Maybe good in getting out of snowpile or deep snow, but in normal driving, the Ridgeline provides more effective traction. And yes, i believe Ridgeline can also "lock" the power distribution to get 50/50 torque split front and rear under certain MPH.

Gen 1 Ridgeline is over 10 years old!!! The new RL will likely be LIGHTER in weight due to high tensile steel, V6 engine with latest tech including VCM, and 6-speed auto!!! What makes you think that it will have worst MPG than Tacoma??

Again, i know that you love to continue on, but your argument is making me think otherwise about ASE certification!! Please stop.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Seriously, this is getting stupid. You're ASE certified mechanic and seemingly you making really ignorant statements. Sorry, not being mean. Damn dude.

Ok...youtube of Pilot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMtOcKK6I4o

See 0:27 seconds into it.

Youtube of 4runner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q70jNH-FnVY

See 0:22 seconds into it.

The reason for the difference is you're comparing a tiny car to a SUV!!! Honda Pilot and 4runner crashed within the same corner in front.

My mind is blown right now at this conversation. :redbrick:

PLEASE QUOTE MY POST IN THAT OTHER THREAD. I hope that other poster has not spread his "conspiracy theory" beyond this forum!

You think "beefier" body mounts will save the Tacoma? No! To improve on 4runner's dismal score, Toyota needs to redesigned the front end along with improvement to the body in front. Body mounts?! WTF dude.

Weight distribution?! Your arguments are really making my head hurt!! THINK. RWD vs. FWD with AWD and torque vectoring.

AGAIN, where is the most weight in a TRUCK (aka EMPTY BED)????????????????? Where is power delivered in a Tacoma vs. Ridgeline. Which has standard AWD and torque vectoring??? Tacoma is RWD only. You have to shift into 4-HI to get power to the front axle. Maybe good in getting out of snow or deep snow, but in normal driving, the Ridgeline provides more effective traction. And yes, i believe Ridgeline can also "lock" the power distribution to get 50/50 torque split front and rear under certain MPH.

Gen 1 Ridgeline is over 10 years old!!!

Again, i know that you love to continue on, but your argument is making me think otherwise about ASE certification!! Please stop.

I haven't looked heavily into IIHS Testing, so I didn't have much to compare it with. But it's nice to see the testing done similarly on the SUVs in terms f centerline; l was curious about it when WFO9 brought it up but never looked further than that.

Actually that body mount is specifically designed for that impact and it's been reinforced over the years specifically because of that type of impact. It sits inline with the firewall to absorb and deflect the suspension and wheel in an impact; reinforcing it and the firewall would actually increase survivability in such an impact. Supposedly the cab of the Gen 3 Tacoma has been completely overhauled as well (again I haven't seen any IIHS testing videos of it, nor any real data to support Toyota's claim there; but assuming they are correct it should do better than the Gen 5 4Runner). Supposedly the body has been redesigned for this impact as well, but without comparisons of Gen 2 & Gen 3 Tacoma IIHS videos, the best we can do is base it off the Gen 5 4Runner, which is rather poor when compared to the Pilot as you showed.

Also I don't think that user was spreading a conspiracy theory, but rather running under the same assumption as me that IIHS did not use the same "Standard" centerline for the 4Runner as they did other vehicles. Though you easily disproved that with the Pilot video and I appreciate that, thank you for enlightening me on that as I really haven't looked into the exact details of the IIHS studies yet.

ASE Certification has little to do with designing/engineering safety systems, so if you erroneously assumed that all mechanics are taught and expected to understand how a vehicle crumples, crushes, and is designed to survive an impact that's on you. My albeit, limited knowledge in that field is from my own spare time being spent looking things up here and there, so I'm no expert by a long stretch.

You're very hung up on your torque vectoring, you keep implying that it's going to run circles around everything that isn't a Ridgeline; if that were true, you could at least support that with some Gen 1 Ridgelines doing donuts in the snow maybe? So far all real world examples show that the 4Runner and Tacoma do perfectly fine in adverse weather and I would assume the Ridgeline is just as adequate.

As for the Gen 1, yeah it's 10yrs old; but it's the only valid data points I can find since you fail to provide any significant data to back up many of your claims besides becoming hostile and belittling me and others when we point out that your assumptions are not fact and ask for data. Which is also why I was nice enough to compare it to the J120/J150 platform which is for the most part going on over a decade of use.

 

[Thai]

I haven't looked heavily into IIHS Testing, so I didn't have much to compare it with. But it's nice to see the testing done similarly on the SUVs in terms f centerline; l was curious about it when WFO9 brought it up but never looked further than that.

Actually that body mount is specifically designed for that impact and it's been reinforced over the years specifically because of that type of impact. It sits inline with the firewall to absorb and deflect the suspension and wheel in an impact; reinforcing it and the firewall would actually increase survivability in such an impact. Supposedly the cab of the Gen 3 Tacoma has been completely overhauled as well (again I haven't seen any IIHS testing videos of it, nor any real data to support Toyota's claim there; but assuming they are correct it should do better than the Gen 5 4Runner).

Also I don't think that user was spreading a conspiracy theory, but rather running under the same assumption as me that IIHS did not use the same "Standard" centerline for the 4Runner as they did other vehicles. Though you easily disproved that with the Pilot video and I appreciate that, thank you for enlightening me on that as I really haven't looked into the exact details of the IIHS studies yet.

SAE Certification has little to do with designing/engineering safety systems, so if you erroneously assumed that all mechanics are taught and expected to understand how a vehicle crumples, crushes, and is designed to survive an impact that's on you. My albeit, limited knowledge in that field is from my own spare time being spent looking things up here and there, so I'm no expert by a long stretch.

You're very hung up on your torque vectoring, you keep implying that it's going to run circles around everything that isn't a Ridgeline; if that were true, you could at least support that with some Gen 1 Ridgelines doing donuts in the snow maybe?

As for the Gen 1, yeah it's 10yrs old; but it's the only valid data points I can find since you fail to provide any significant data to back up many of your claims besides becoming hostile and belittling me and others when we point out that your assumptions are not fact. Which is also why I was nice enough to compare it to the J120/J150 platform which is for the most part going on over a decade of use.

Sorry about being too direct. But i just lost it when you talked about IIHS being bias! Look, as ASE cert mechanic, you should be more tune in into these things...or at least bother to investigate further (ain't hard on Youtube). I am far far away from these things, yet i find answers. Earlier, you tried to hide FJ fender weakness by giving me BS, which i promptly exposed.

Did you ever ask why IIHS, a 3rd party regulatory body that is pretty much looked at by everyone, would make such a ridiculous BIAS testing? Why would they go against BOF vehicles??? You think Toyota would not protest?! Dude, basic logic.

I hope that you're right about Toyota making major changes to Tacoma cab...it NEEDS to because the 4runner crash test was horrible especially for a 2015 facelift!!

As for SH-AWD or i-VTM4, here is the SH-AWD in action vs. other AWD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZxVefta68

Now, you're telling me that a Tacoma RWD can go up that hill? (Remember, take out 4-HI because that is not what you're using in normal driving.)

 

[Thai]

As for the Gen 1, yeah it's 10yrs old; but it's the only valid data points I can find since you fail to provide any significant data to back up many of your claims besides becoming hostile and belittling me and others when we point out that your assumptions are not fact and ask for data. Which is also why I was nice enough to compare it to the J120/J150 platform which is for the most part going on over a decade of use.

The new Ridgeline will likely be LIGHTER in weight than Gen 1 due to use of high tensile steel (new MDX is over 300-500 lbs lighter than older MDX), V6 engine with latest tech including VCM, and 6-speed auto!!! What makes you think that it will have worst MPG than Tacoma?? Just from VCM alone, that should me RL better than all other trucks!

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Sorry about mean too direct. But i just lost it when you talked about IIHS being bias! Look, as ASE cert mechanic, you should be more tune in into these things...or at least bother to investigate further (ain't hard on Youtube). I am far far away from these things, yet i find answers. Earlier, you tried to hide FJ fender weakness by giving me BS, which i promptly exposed.

Did you ever ask why IIHS, a 3rd party regulatory body that is pretty much looked at by everyone, would make such a ridiculous BIAS testing? Why would they go against BOF vehicles??? You think Toyota would not protest?! Dude, basic logic.

I hope that you're right about Toyota making major changes to Tacoma cab...it NEEDS to because the 4runner crash test was horrible especially for a 2015 facelift!!

As for SH-AWD or i-VTM4, here is the SH-AWD in action vs. other AWD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZxVefta68

Now, you're telling me that a Tacoma RWD can go up that hill? (Remember, take out 4-HI because that is not what you're using in normal driving.)

That's why I asked the question of what their logic behind it was, I thought it looked almost biased which seemed odd to me to begin with. I'm sure plenty of manufacturers protest lots of 3rd party companies, the problem is if it's legitimate or not.

I'm a very cynical person so 3rd party only means 3 things to me, they're paid by the company they are testing for (biased for), they're paid by the opposition (biased against), they have their own agenda/profiteering (they do whatever they want). I just wasn't sure what benefit they got IF they really were being biased; but like I said thanks for proving that they were being consistent with their testing methods.

While I love researching stuff on my own and looking stuff up, I do actually end up treating this forum as a second job helping a lot of members in the 4th and 5th gen section with their vehicles. I don't usually end up having as much time to look up stuff other than EWDs and Repair Manuals and TSBs and such.

I hope so too about Toyota reinforcing the cab and frame, it seems silly that it takes that much damage in stock form.

That's impressive on the AWD video, I won't argue that. But there's plenty of members that do drive in 4Hi regularly (something the 4th Gen crowd tend to do regularly thanks to the T3), but most likely in RWD the Tacoma won't be going up that hill, but then again I don't think a FWD Ridgeline would either; so wouldn't AWD vs. 4Hi be a more fair and accurate comparison there rather than lumping RWD with optional FWD biased AWD?

Couldn't tell you what the MPGs are going to be, lots of manufacturers these days boast being lighter and faster and more fuel sipping; lots of manufacturers end up being liars and cheats when they release their vehicles and people start using them in the real world (god knows Toyota's let me down before on that). I'm not really impressed by VCM too much, it's been nice in other brands and it does help eek out that mpg, but I don't know if it's going to be that significant in this application, I could be wrong though. I'm going to guess that the Gen 2 will be better than the Gen 1 and Tacoma, but not by much; mostly because that seems to be the trend in that segment; everyone boasts how much better it is and in the real world the results are far less amazing. But we will both know for sure when Honda finally releases it's estimated EPA testing and what the real world mileage is. I just don't think realistically it will be significantly better, I'm not a rainbows and sparkles and gold iPhones for everyone kind of guy; I've seen the world continue to fail and fall short of it's own hype on a near constant basis, so I'm rarely surprised when things don't meet the hype.

 

[Thai]

I'm a very cynical person so 3rd party only means 3 things to me, they're paid by the company they are testing for (biased for), they're paid by the opposition (biased against), they have their own agenda/profiteering (they do whatever they want). I just wasn't sure what benefit they got IF they really were being biased; but like I said thanks for proving that they were being consistent with their testing methods.

That's impressive on the AWD video, I won't argue that. But there's plenty of members that do drive in 4Hi regularly (something the 4th Gen crowd tend to do regularly thanks to the T3), but most likely in RWD the Tacoma won't be going up that hill, but then again I don't think a FWD Ridgeline would either; so wouldn't AWD vs. 4Hi be a more fair and accurate comparison there rather than lumping RWD with optional FWD biased AWD?

Couldn't tell you what the MPGs are going to be, lots of manufacturers these days boast being lighter and faster and more fuel sipping; lots of manufacturers end up being liars and cheats when they release their vehicles and people start using them in the real world (god knows Toyota's let me down before on that). I'm not really impressed by VCM too much, it's been nice in other brands and it does help eek out that mpg, but I don't know if it's going to be that significant in this application, I could be wrong though. I'm going to guess that the Gen 2 will be better than the Gen 1 and Tacoma, but not by much; mostly because that seems to be the trend in that segment; everyone boasts how much better it is and in the real world the results are far less amazing. But we will both know for sure when Honda finally releases it's estimated EPA testing and what the real world mileage is.

You need to read up on IIHS before continuing please. You're not really making much sense here.

Why comparing AWD vs. RWD Tacoma? Again, READ what i wrote AGAIN. AWD with torque vectoring in ON all the time. Is 4-HI on all the time? Do you use 4HI all day?

Unless Tacoma has T3 diff, you bringing it up is irrelevant and shows that you miss the point.

Why would VCM not be "significant" here? Why would VCM be good in others (MDX, Pilot) yet have zero effect in Ridgeline?????? COME ON!!!!

My guess is that it will beat Tacoma by 2 mpg on the highway. City probably the same.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

@Thai

In my case, actually yes, 4Hi is always engaged (Full-Time 4WD V8 4th Gen); so I don't think that counts for your point.

That's what I am saying though, a lot of people on the forum (and some Tacoma guys) do turn their 4Hi during the winter and leave it on or when they are in adverse conditions. That's why I am a bit unsure how I would really structure a comparison, I will concede that yes the RWD vs. AWD will favor the Ridgeline AWD for sure in that comparison. But in the real world, many people are using 4Hi regularly out of habit in more adverse conditions; so I'm willing to concede that this one is a bit subjective depending on whether you lump everyone into always driving RWD no matter what or that some owners do use 4Hi regularly.

As for my lack of faith in VCM, I haven't really seen significant gains in cylinder deactivation technology vs. reliability and performance issues on a general scale to be convinced yet. If it were that great a technology I would imagine Chrysler and GM would have mastered it since they had a head start with it in the 80's; not to mention everyone else would be using it. VCM is only going to activate in situations where you are coasting and/or need low power (i.e. mild acceleration according to Honda's "picturebook" on VCM), in a place like the Bay Area or large city I can't see someone coasting the engine long enough to see significant gains due to that system. You see more benefits with engine shut-down in partial and full-hybrids than technology such as VCM. Most of the GM variable cylinder cars I have test driven rarely go into that mode even when I am puttering around town, which ironically I would expect them to since I am not using the engine to it's full potential; maybe the Honda system is less awkward, but I doubt it.

2MPG is hardly significant, you've made it sound like it'll get the Pilot's 20/27mpg or better. LoL :madgrin:

 

[Thai]

@Thai

In my case, actually yes, 4Hi is always engaged (Full-Time 4WD V8 4th Gen); so I don't think that counts for your point.

That's what I am saying though, a lot of people on the forum (and some Tacoma guys) do turn their 4Hi during the winter and leave it on or when they are in adverse conditions. That's why I am a bit unsure how I would really structure a comparison, I will concede that yes the RWD vs. AWD will favor the Ridgeline AWD for sure in that comparison. But in the real world, many people are using 4Hi regularly out of habit in more adverse conditions; so I'm willing to concede that this one is a bit subjective depending on whether you lump everyone into always driving RWD no matter what or that some owners do use 4Hi regularly.

As for my lack of faith in VCM, I haven't really seen significant gains in cylinder deactivation technology vs. reliability and performance issues on a general scale to be convinced yet. If it were that great a technology I would imagine Chrysler and GM would have mastered it since they had a head start with it in the 80's; not to mention everyone else would be using it. Not to mention VCM is only going to activate in situations where you are coasting and/or need low power (i.e. mild acceleration according to Honda's "picturebook" on VCM), in a place like the Bay Area or large city I can't see someone coasting the engine long enough to see significant gains due to that system.

2MPG is hardly significant, you've made it sound like it'll get the Pilot's 20/27mpg or better. LoL :madgrin: 2mpg

You got me. Very few have made me run out of words to say. Ignorance is just rampant. I am tired.

Good night.:hatsoff:

 

[BlackWorksInc]

You got me. Very few have made me run out of words to say. Ignorance is just rampant. I am tired.

Good night.:hatsoff:

G'night. In all fairness you got me to admit the Ridgeline has some positives over the J120/J150 platform; which is more than I expected.

 

[Thai]

@Thai

In my case, actually yes, 4Hi is always engaged (Full-Time 4WD V8 4th Gen); so I don't think that counts for your point.

That's what I am saying though, a lot of people on the forum (and some Tacoma guys) do turn their 4Hi during the winter and leave it on or when they are in adverse conditions. That's why I am a bit unsure how I would really structure a comparison, I will concede that yes the RWD vs. AWD will favor the Ridgeline AWD for sure in that comparison. But in the real world, many people are using 4Hi regularly out of habit in more adverse conditions; so I'm willing to concede that this one is a bit subjective depending on whether you lump everyone into always driving RWD no matter what or that some owners do use 4Hi regularly.

Now that i have some time to think...i think that you're wrong (again).

A few counterpoints:

1. I am not just talking about snow. What about driving in the rain? Do you use 4-HI too in the Tacoma? Even in light rain? Or what if you ran into an unexpected puddle on the highway? i-VTM4 is ALWAYS on, as is active torque vectoring.

2. Lets take the video noted above (here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZxVefta68). Even with 4-HI (in either Tacoma or YOUR 4runner), are you so sure that you will be any better than the Audi??

3. As you may know, there are limitations to ATRAC. ATRAC does NOT transfer 100% of torque to wheel with traction; much of it is loss to heat.

4. Toyota does not publish data on ATRAC. Hummer once boasted that their H2 can go up a 10% grade with ONE wheel traction. And we know that ATRAC only PULSES the brake(s) of the slipping wheel. It does not stop the slipping wheel completely...so, torque transfer is intermittent (at best). And ATRAC does allow some slippage BEFORE it intervenes...so, loss of momentum is a huge problem with ATRAC (and other ABS-based traction control).

5. Your 4runner and Tacoma in 4-HI relies on ATRAC to get up that hill in video. Unless you turn on the rear locker (in 4-LO only and only in certain Tacoma TRD), you guys are no better than Audi...and maybe worst because Audi is lower in center of gravity and lighter weight?

6. The difference here for the Ridgeline and MDX is that the REAR diff is basically a sophisticated limited slip diff (or you can even say electronic locker that can vary torque distribution actively). It is purely based on computer (and not totally on the which wheel is slipping) which draws in various data (such as steering wheel angle, weight distribution, tranny gearing, gas pedal pressure, slipping wheel, etc.) to ACTIVELY distribute torque to EACH rear wheel.

7. This means that even with one rear wheel with ZERO traction, the rear diff still functions as advertised...UNLIKE a torsen LSD which becomes 100% INeffective when the opposing wheel on same axle has zero traction. (As you may know, if your 4runner with T3 Torsen center diff has both wheels in front [or rear] in mud, then you're 100% stuck UNLESS you lock the center diff beforehand.)

8. So, while your 4runner and Tacoma (in 4-HI) rely on ATRAC to transfer torque back and forth and losing momentum and causing steering instability (like Audi), Ridgeline and MDX can go up that hill nice and straight because the rear diff smoothly transfer torque b/w the rear wheels without losing momentum...and thus the result noted in the video.

So, yes, the Ridgeline (and MDX) should beat 4runner and Tacoma in handling in foul weather. I hope that you understand it now. And this is why i honestly consider Acura SH-AWD to be the BEST AWD system on the planet, bar none.

 

[T5RUNNER]

I am glad that Honda is offering something different in the market, hopefully it is different enough. The old one didn't sell because it was the same size, price, and mpg as other mid-size trucks, but with less capability (even if it had enough for most people, Mericans want MOAR). It did have better on road handling, but you had to live with that ugliness inside and out to get it.

It seems that they have fixed the goofball styling, but if the mileage is not much better than a Tacoma it will flop again.

I'm still waiting for someone to start selling a compact pickup again.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

@Thai

Yeah I was thinking about it more and there is that odd quirk with the T3 where when a CV axle breaks or one wheel is in the air it renders the system useless unless you lock the center diff. I as well as many people don't look at the TRAC system too favorably, mine seems to fight me more than work with me (part of the reason my brakes are glazed over).

I won't argue about the SH-AWD's merits; it's a good system from the looks of it. But didn't you say earlier that the Ridgeline was not getting that system and instead a more ABS based one?

I also have to say that I still don't see the SH-AWD system being THAT significantly better than most others for the majority of situations. I say that because last year me and another 4th gen along with some other Toyotas and a group of Jeeps ahead of us went up Highway 88 when it was snowed/iced over and while the Jeeps and older Toyotas had a bit of trouble going up what was slightly steeper than the incline in that video; both my 4th gen and the other 4th gen had little issue with 4HI CDL off engaged (though VSC did try to spin the vehicle out). Granted we would be the exception and not the rule in this case as we both are modified with at least beefier tires than stock. But I don't have any issues in rain with slipping or losing traction, nor do most AWD vehicles; this is an area where tires and driver skill tend to easily overcompensate for mechanical deficiencies.

I do agree with you that the SH-AWD is a good system and from a "just get in the car and don't think about driving" stand-point it's superior. But I also have to wonder if it's that much more significant outside of certain niches as the video shows? I mean how often is anyone really losing traction on a rainy freeway when using correct tires for the vehicle? I mean you have little FWD cars in the snow driving in places where they get tons of snow and all they have is decent winter tires. But for the majority of realistic adverse conditions an average driver will encounter, I don't think it significantly outperforms the rest of the vehicles on the road because many of those systems are equally as adequate in most situations, the SH-AWD has an advantage yes, but perhaps not as big in more realistic situations.

But that also delves a bit into the whole "having half a brain and knowing how to operate you vehicle" niche as well, which is far from the norm these days.

Either way, once again I do find myself conceding that the Ridgeline might have a positive or two.

 

[Thai]

I won't argue about the SH-AWD's merits; it's a good system from the looks of it. But didn't you say earlier that the Ridgeline was not getting that system and instead a more ABS based one?

But I don't have any issues in rain with slipping or losing traction, nor do most AWD vehicles; this is an area where tires and driver skill tend to easily overcompensate for mechanical deficiencies.

I do agree with you that the SH-AWD is a good system and from a "just get in the car and don't think about driving" stand-point it's superior. But I also have to wonder if it's that much more significant outside of certain niches as the video shows? I mean how often is anyone really losing traction on a rainy freeway when using correct tires for the vehicle? I mean you have little FWD cars in the snow driving in places where they get tons of snow and all they have is decent winter tires.

Either way, once again I do find myself conceding that the Ridgeline might have a positive or two.

It sure sounds like i-VTM-4 is indeed SH-AWD or at least very similar:

"By rotating the outside rear wheel faster than the front wheels while cornering, the Pilot's AWD system uses torque vectoring to create a yaw moment to help turn the vehicle through the corner — reducing understeer and improving controllability. With cornering forces more evenly distributed between front and rear tires, overall cornering power is increased in all road conditions.

- Up to 100 percent of available torque can be transferred to the front wheels during normal cruising.

- In hard cornering and under acceleration, up to 70 percent of available torque can be directed to the rear wheels to enhance vehicle dynamics.

- Up to 100 percent of the torque sent to the rear axle can be applied to either the left or right rear wheel, depending on conditions."

Two things...the first bold makes it different than Acura MDX's system because MDX is full-time (max is 90% front/10% back). This description makes it sound like it is 100% front/0% back when cruising...so, on-demand AWD, not full-time.

The last bold makes it seems like it does have MDX rear differential with gearing to overdrive the outside wheel for torque vectoring around a corner.

Either way, IF my guesses are right, then this system is very nice, but i would have preferred full-time system.

See my above post regarding Ridgeline's AWD system. It definitely has the ACTIVE rear differential of my Acura's SH-AWD. It is FWD and throws torque to the rear when needed...and then the rear diff distributes torque laterally.

This system is slightly inferior to my SH-AWD because Acura's system is full-time AWD (90% front, 10% rear at least).

What is that saying...better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Remember, ATRAC can function continuously for 15 min max on the Land Cruiser before shutting down due to heat. I assume 4runner probably has less capacity. Your brakes are either bad quality or something wrong with your driving to use ATRAC that much! (just kidding)

You mentioned seeing FWD cars with snow tires doing good. I agree. Thanks for proving my point. Ridgeline is FWD-bias which is VERY IMPORTANT in a truck because that is where the weight is!! On a Tacoma, the power is on the end with very little weight...while the front end has zero power (unless you use 4-HI).

But, again, we're not just talking snow. Rainstorm, rain, puddles (esp. unexpected), oil slick, etc..

I agree that Ridgeline has deficiencies. No doubt. I would not trust it to tow heavy campers...hell, i would be nervous towing 5000 lbs with Honda's history of poor transmission...that alone should give anyone pause! Useless in off-roading.

BUT, for the other stuff (safety, Honda reliability, roominess, practical space for gardening etc., etc..) Ridgeline fits the bill nicely...at least for me. (And please don't bring up minivan again!)

 

[BlackWorksInc]

... (And please don't bring up minivan again!)

But does your Ridgeline have a built-in Vacuum? : (I'll be honest that is something I am jealous of)

As for the ATRAC, I think it's probably a combination of my driving style and the larger, heavier tires, and OEM Brakes. I have a feeling if I upgraded to some better pads and rotors the system might be a bit more forgiving. Worst case scenario I disable it and go full lockers.

Yeah, that's pretty much the concession I am starting to make. It's a moderate improvement over the original and while nothing significantly groundbreaking in it's segment; it has it's uses I suppose. Still not my cup of tea, but not nearly as bad as I first considered it at the beginning of the thread.

 

[Thai]

But does your Ridgeline have a built-in Vacuum? : (I'll be honest that is something I am jealous of)

Like you, i almost upgraded my Sienna to Ody Elite because of THAT one feature!

My next minivan to replace my Sienna will likely be Sienna or Ody. Sienna currently has the edge because it is quieter and has Blu-ray player, which i value slightly over the vacuum.

 

[volkinator]

Anyone see the ridgeline commercial! Probably one of my favorites!

 

[Thai]

From C&D blog:

"With all-wheel drive, the new Ridgeline is EPA-rated at 18 mpg in the city and 25 mpg on the highway for 4WD, numbers that sit above the 17/24 mpg salute given the six-cylinder Chevrolet Colorado 4×4 and the 18/23 mpg earned by the Toyota Tacoma V-6. For the first time, the Ridgeline will be offered with front-wheel drive, too. This is the most efficient Ridgeline configuration, as you’d expect, and is EPA-rated at 19 mpg city and 26 mpg highway. Again, this tops the six-cylinder mid-size competition, although the two-wheel-drive Colorado V-6 matches the Honda’s highway figure, but not its city or combined numbers."

 

[Thai]

Good article comparing utility of RL vs. other mid-size trucks: New Honda Ridgeline Has More Bed Than A Comparable Tacoma, Frontier Or Colorado

 

[Thai]

First drive: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/09/2017-honda-ridgeline-first-drive-review/

" Park the Ridgeline so that one wheel is kept high in the air, and, proving the unibody's stiffness, all the doors open and close without a hitch, as does the tailgate. A similar test of the Tacoma shows significant bending made apparent by uneven gaps between the doors, pickup bed and tailgate."


[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] WTF Toyota?!?! There goes the whole BOF argument over uneven surfaces!

Tow rating for AWD = 5000.

Payload = 1584.

Another first drive: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-ridgeline-first-drive-review

 

[philsey]

First Drive: The 2017 Honda Ridgeline Is Just Enough Truck