2020 4R needle bearing

[ProLee]

So, does the ECGS bushing make this better because the bore that the needle bearing sits in is actually oversize? For the life of me, I cant figure out how a bushing is so much better than a rolling element.

Yes it does....per their website.

"One Sintered PTFE Bushing, metal backed, bronze inlaid, PTFE coated CV axle bushing for Toyota 8" front clamshell differential. Fits all 05 to current year model Tacoma, FJ Cruiser, and 03 up 4runner DOES NOT FIT AWD 4RUNNER AND FJ CRUISER. Replaces Driver side CV axle needle bearing with bushing to help control Vibration and shaft float common on these differentials. Replaces Needle Bearing Part # 90364-35010 and 90364-35008."

 

[17KT4R]

So, does the ECGS bushing make this better because the bore that the needle bearing sits in is actually oversize? For the life of me, I cant figure out how a bushing is so much better than a rolling element.

Correct. I got tired of that drone noise after two years and my local dealer didn’t hear anything. It only occurred when cold, as in winter temps, presumably went away in the heat of summer due to component expansion.

My local off road shop installed the bushing from Nitro Gear. Same thing. Has been dead quiet since. The needle bearing looked fine, the CV shaft etc. It’s just excessive play that makes that damn noise or a lift which may raise the CV angle and make it louder which is the typical scenario my shop tech advised they use the solid bushing for but of course they’ve had other lucky customers like me too on stock ride height come in with the same annoying noise they wish to be rid of.

Was cheap enough for the bushing and labour so money well spent for me.

 

[bzizzi]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, I posted this several days ago and came back and read all the posts, this is good stuff, I decided to order the ECGS bushing and have installed. Surprisingly enough my local Toyota dealer said they would install for me for one hour labor. Said they installed a couple of these in the past. My 4R has just over 10K mi and has made the noise since I took delivery. No sense at all putting another needle bearing in the left side if it's not going to make a diference.

 

[bzizzi]

FYI everyone, called Toyota dealer to schedule repair on my 2020 ORP and they told me they have two 2022 4R's in shop currently waiting on front differentials to fix the exact same issue as me.

 

[JL-2022]

FYI everyone, called Toyota dealer to schedule repair on my 2020 ORP and they told me they have two 2022 4R's in shop currently waiting on front differentials to fix the exact same issue as me.

Yeah, I just called my dealer today to find out the status of my part. They told me that they wouldn't have anything in until April 25th. Backordered. Said that there wasn't any in the whole country as far as he could see on his computers

 

[BillsRunner]

Toyota case started

2021 SR5 Premium with 10,500 miles. I've posted elsewhere but wanted to add to this PROBLEM!! Had the noise at about 6,000 miles, dealer heard it first time. Identified it as "mismatched gears" and replaced the front diff. Before a few hundred miles the noise is back - less cyclical droning but clear as a bell, vibration from about 42 mph down to about 32. Totally smooth in 4WD.

Service manager says it's not a defect cause a brand new 22 on the lot does it too. That does not make it right. Toyota should be embarrassed.

My thinking is the stock 5th gen is lifted from the 4th so it affects most! Definitely mine. The dealer registered with a TAS case and I registered a customer complaint case with Toyota as well.

This is totally unacceptable and calling the dealer again today to follow up!

I had several 4Runners 1st, 2nd, two 4ths and now this otherwise wonderful 5th gen. I put 225K on my two 4th gens with never ever this problem!!

Thanks for listening. I bet I'm headed for the ECGS bushing!

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS BUT I'M HOPEFUL! The Toyota Customer Care folks AND the TAS submitted by the dealer resulted in a regional Toyota tech coming to check it out. They took it all apart and are ordering another full front diff and a new driver's side axle. Including the original diff - this will be the 3rd one! The noise has subsided with the over 70 degree heat but the tech clearly was digging in hard. Parts on order and I'll keep you all posted!

 

[Salvo Jimmy]

2021 SR5 Premium with 10,500 miles. I've posted elsewhere but wanted to add to this PROBLEM!! Had the noise at about 6,000 miles, dealer heard it first time. Identified it as "mismatched gears" and replaced the front diff. Before a few hundred miles the noise is back - less cyclical droning but clear as a bell, vibration from about 42 mph down to about 32. Totally smooth in 4WD.

Service manager says it's not a defect cause a brand new 22 on the lot does it too. That does not make it right. Toyota should be embarrassed.

My thinking is the stock 5th gen is lifted from the 4th so it affects most! Definitely mine. The dealer registered with a TAS case and I registered a customer complaint case with Toyota as well.

This is totally unacceptable and calling the dealer again today to follow up!

I had several 4Runners 1st, 2nd, two 4ths and now this otherwise wonderful 5th gen. I put 225K on my two 4th gens with never ever this problem!!

Thanks for listening. I bet I'm headed for the ECGS bushing!

I often wonder if I have not had this problem with 2 5th Gens because I wear hearing aids*LOL

 

[lewdog998]

Is there a way to tell if your needle bearings are fading without hearing the noise...I don't notice a noise, but my tires are loud and I am old. Mine is a 20 pro with about an inch over stock pro lift...48k miles

 

[Hammer0313]

Another great thread; subscribed.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So to clear up some confusion, the vehicles being covered outside of the TSB range are likely being individually approved/recommended through TAS and the DSPM. This is something we have run into sometimes when we get a vehicle that has exactly the same issue as described in a TSB but is out of the vehicle range.

As for the new differentials "fixing" the issue? In my experience? It's 50/50, some of them get pretty noisy and a new differential certainly is quieter than before and the customer is usually pretty happy with it; but most of the time you can still hear it a little bit if you're dialed in to that noise (which most people end up doing).

So it becomes this weird grey area where some noise is considered "normal" (because they all do it to some degree) and the best we can do from a warranty standpoint is to make the noise quieter rather than eliminate it.

In all our lifted vehicles we throw a bushing in the differential just to save ourselves the trouble. I don't know why the needle bearing is so noisy; perhaps clearance issues or maybe they need a different style of bearing there?

 

[Steve40th396]

How do you check if you have a limited version? As it is always in 4wd/awd

 

[CutthroatSlam]

So to clear up some confusion, the vehicles being covered outside of the TSB range are likely being individually approved/recommended through TAS and the DSPM. This is something we have run into sometimes when we get a vehicle that has exactly the same issue as described in a TSB but is out of the vehicle range.

As for the new differentials "fixing" the issue? In my experience? It's 50/50, some of them get pretty noisy and a new differential certainly is quieter than before and the customer is usually pretty happy with it; but most of the time you can still hear it a little bit if you're dialed in to that noise (which most people end up doing).

So it becomes this weird grey area where some noise is considered "normal" (because they all do it to some degree) and the best we can do from a warranty standpoint is to make the noise quieter rather than eliminate it.

In all our lifted vehicles we throw a bushing in the differential just to save ourselves the trouble. I don't know why the needle bearing is so noisy; perhaps clearance issues or maybe they need a different style of bearing there?

Does this drown out Scotty Kilmer’s engine noise?

I have a similar groan on a 2005 Honda Accord with 5 spd manual trans. Keep thinking it’s a wheel bearing as the sound is tied to road speed. Wondering if I have a similar situation where the CV shafts go into the transmission?

 

[catrains]

So to clear up some confusion...

I don't know why the needle bearing is so noisy; perhaps clearance issues or maybe they need a different style of bearing there?

I was looking up that bearing part is a different manufacturer ..?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I was looking up that bearing part is a different manufacturer ..?

Couldn't tell you, there's a couple reasons that they could have switched manufacturers; supply issues, better price, said manufacturer better met their desired specifications, etc.

So it's possible the new one is "better" but that's a bit above my pay grade as they say.

 

[stiles_s]

Curious. I have a ‘22 limited with 1500 miles. At 30-40 mph up a slight grade there is a groan and vibration I can feel in my feet. If I take my foot off the gas it disappears. Is this what you guys are experiencing with the needle bearings?

It is subtle enough I know it is going to be a pita to get the dealer to repro.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jetboy]

How do you check if you have a limited version? As it is always in 4wd/awd

This isn't an issue on limited models. This bearing is between the carrier housing and the axle shaft. In 4wd the shaft and carrier rotate together at the same speed so in effect the bearing is not used almost ever. It generally never spins. And it effectively never spins at speed. So it should never be a problem on limited models.

 

[Steve40th396]

This isn't an issue on limited models. This bearing is between the carrier housing and the axle shaft. In 4wd the shaft and carrier rotate together at the same speed so in effect the bearing is not used almost ever. It generally never spins. And it effectively never spins at speed. So it should never be a problem on limited models.

I was under the impression that the Limited front differential was a different type. Since Limited's are AWD/4WD all the time..
Limited front diff also uses less oil. So, I am learning, I honestly thought they were different differentials up front, compared to all the other trim levels in the 4runner.
I am learning, so be gentle..

 

[Jetboy]

I was under the impression that the Limited front differential was a different type. Since Limited's are AWD/4WD all the time..
Limited front diff also uses less oil. So, I am learning, I honestly thought they were different differentials up front, compared to all the other trim levels in the 4runner.
I am learning, so be gentle..

The difference between them is on the passenger side. They don't have a disconnect mechanism like the part time models do. Basically it's a dog clutch and a shift mechanism that slides the collar to engage or disengage the passenger side from the diff. So when in 2hi the drivers side shaft spins at full road speed. (Roughly 6-800 RPMs). And the shaft freewheels inside the diff that's not spinning. So that drivers side shaft spins in the needle bearing at high speed. But the bearing isn't actually in the housing. It's in the carrier. So if the diff is spinning the bearing ends up being stationary relative to the axle stub shaft and the carrier. I think the limited has the bearing, but it basically never goes bad.

On the passenger side they use a similar bearing on both the limited and the rest of the models. And it is fixed in the housing so it always spins on all models. But that one is a big roller bearing. It's similar to a wheel bearing on a small car. It's way overkill. And rarely ever wears out. I've never heard of one going bad.

Hope that kinda helps. No problem being new. Everyone was once. It's really hard to explain this without seeing one torn apart so maybe my explanation doesn't make sense anyway.

 

[Gclark949]

The difference between them is on the passenger side. They don't have a disconnect mechanism like the part time models do. Basically it's a dog clutch and a shift mechanism that slides the collar to engage or disengage the passenger side from the diff. So when in 2hi the drivers side shaft spins at full road speed. (Roughly 6-800 RPMs). And the shaft freewheels inside the diff that's not spinning. So that drivers side shaft spins in the needle bearing at high speed. But the bearing isn't actually in the housing. It's in the carrier. So if the diff is spinning the bearing ends up being stationary relative to the axle stub shaft and the carrier. I think the limited has the bearing, but it basically never goes bad.

On the passenger side they use a similar bearing on both the limited and the rest of the models. And it is fixed in the housing so it always spins on all models. But that one is a big roller bearing. It's similar to a wheel bearing on a small car. It's way overkill. And rarely ever wears out. I've never heard of one going bad.

Hope that kinda helps. No problem being new. Everyone was once. It's really hard to explain this without seeing one torn apart so maybe my explanation doesn't make sense anyway.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[Steve40th396]

The difference between them is on the passenger side. They don't have a disconnect mechanism like the part time models do. Basically it's a dog clutch and a shift mechanism that slides the collar to engage or disengage the passenger side from the diff. So when in 2hi the drivers side shaft spins at full road speed. (Roughly 6-800 RPMs). And the shaft freewheels inside the diff that's not spinning. So that drivers side shaft spins in the needle bearing at high speed. But the bearing isn't actually in the housing. It's in the carrier. So if the diff is spinning the bearing ends up being stationary relative to the axle stub shaft and the carrier. I think the limited has the bearing, but it basically never goes bad.

On the passenger side they use a similar bearing on both the limited and the rest of the models. And it is fixed in the housing so it always spins on all models. But that one is a big roller bearing. It's similar to a wheel bearing on a small car. It's way overkill. And rarely ever wears out. I've never heard of one going bad.

Hope that kinda helps. No problem being new. Everyone was once. It's really hard to explain this without seeing one torn apart so maybe my explanation doesn't make sense anyway.

Thnx. Makes allot of sense..
So, I guess the only way to tell if the Limited versions have a bearing issue is to physically try and move the drivers side shaft?
The company that makes the replacement for the bearing says theirs does not work in the Limited AWD versions.
So, there is a physical difference according to them that hinders their replacement from working in the Limited versions..