2021 4Runner SR5 Thoughts - 4 mo / 3k miles

[dtbingle]

Purchased a 2021 4Runner SR5 about 4 months ago and have driven it ~3k miles. Overall, it was a huge step up in on-road comfort coming from a JKU wrangler and I like the vehicle, but there are a few aspects I'm not a fan of. Posting this in case anyone can relate so that we can suffer together

1) Wandering and loose steering in general
The vehicle seems to wander a lot and require constant input to the steering wheel. The steering wheel turning effort is also very low and even the slightest adjustment has a rather aggressive effect on where the vehicle is tracking. I feel like it will start to wander one direction, I correct the wheel, then it wanders the other direction, can never get it going straight, and feels sketchy to look down at the radio even for a split second in fear of going into another lane.

Checked alignment and as suspected caster was at the very low end of factory tolerance (near 2.75), camber on one side was a off, and toe in wasn't as even as I'd like. After correcting these numbers and getting caster near high end of factory tolerance of 3.75 deg, this wandering is MUCH better. It still has some sense of wandering and looseness in the wheel, but magnitudes better than before.

Open to suggestions on alignment to improve this further. Also, do I need to worry about SAI being out if caster/camber are good?


2) Sensitive gas/brake pedals
The gas and brake pedals are SUPER sensitive. I'm getting used to the gas pedal, but having major issues getting used to the brake pedal. The initial bite is very aggressive with even the tiniest amount of pressure on the brake and then does not feel linear as you come to a stop - especially during downshifts. It feels like the braking pressure changes - or maybe it's just hard to manage the tiny brake pedal input as the shift happens and bucks the front of the vehicle up a bit.

Any ways to improve this? Different brake pads with less of an initial bite?


3) Brake nose dive
Does have a fair bit of body roll, which may even contribute to the small amount of wandering that wasn't corrected by an alignment. However, I don't find the body roll to be too bothersome.

The nose dive on the other hand during braking is a bit much, even at low to moderate braking patterns. Stopping from a medium speed over a long distance where you can slowly come to a stop isn't too bad, but stop and go traffic is irritating.

I'm thinking to try out the Bilstein 4600's with stock coils and see if that helps at all.


4) Excessive number of chimes
The number of chimes is ridiculous and they are lengthy high-pitched frequencies that are just awful to listen to. 75% of them can just go away.

Have to look at TechStream options of which chimes can and can't be turned off.

 

[djeepin]

I think if "initial bite is very aggressive", that brakes already dragging and slightest pressure from brake pedal, makes them aggressively bite.
If I had a new 4runner right now:
I would service all brakes, make sure pistons floating freely, add pink lube.
And install oil catch can immediately.
And switched to 5w30 immediately.
And apply fluid film immediately.
And vinyl cover paint over metal panels (including roof) immediately.
And check level of WS by adding one quart, warm up to spec temp and drain until trickle.
And bought trailer and ATV to have fun on weekend in a dirt (in ATV, not in 4R).
And add in-line transmission cooler.

 

[DAW89446]

I have an ‘18 SR5.

As for item #1, mine never has displayed the wandering yours has. Neither with the OEM rubber and the Load Range E, stock size BFG All Terrain T/A KO2s I put on not long after I took delivery. The first thing that came to mind is over pressurization of your tires. Not uncommon for dealers to ignore this and tires be way over maximum pressure right from the lot.

As for braking, mine isn’t what I’d call aggressive and seems quite linear to me. The only thing that took me by surprise is the panic braking feature that keeps the brakes at maximum after you let off. Scared the crap out of me the first time it happened. It’s only happened once since.

Yeah, I’m not a fan of chimes either, but after I got used to stuff the chimes are less intrusive and stay quiet.

 

[BorotHex]

Relative to other vehicles the 4Runner will absolutely feel like it wanders around. It’s also very difficult to get tires balanced well enough to not feel issues on the front. It is what it is.

 

[dtbingle]

I think if "initial bite is very aggressive", that brakes already dragging and slightest pressure from brake pedal, makes them aggressively bite.
If I had a new 4runner right now:
I would service all brakes, make sure pistons floating freely, add pink lube.
And install oil catch can immediately.
And switched to 5w30 immediately.
And apply fluid film immediately.
And vinyl cover paint over metal panels (including roof) immediately.
And check level of WS by adding one quart, warm up to spec temp and drain until trickle.
And bought trailer and ATV to have fun on weekend in a dirt (in ATV, not in 4R).
And add in-line transmission cooler.

Definitely will check the brakes at next tire rotation, but from googling around it seems related to the brake booster / poor calibration. Reading some theories that the brake booster engages differently with how quickly the brake pedal is pressed vs. just pedal position/pressure. Seeing this pop up on tacoma and I think tundra forums too. Will have to pay attention more closely. Either way, I have a feeling it's just something to get used to.

Not sure I'm on board with needing an oil catch can or steering away from 0W-30 that the manual specifies. Are there a large number of issues related to not doing these?

I do agree on the fluid film / similar. Did that on my jeep and it worked well. This time, I took it to Krown where they drilled holes in a few locations to access all interior body areas and was very pleased overall.

Vinyl cover paint over metal panels? Not sure I follow what surfaces you're referencing

 

[djeepin]

Japan clear coat and paint is awfully thin. Ceramic coating is good idea, or vinyl sheets coating all external painted metal surfaces: hood, fenders, doors. I am not worried about painted plastic bumpers. And disregard what I said before, if you going to dealership for that, we speak different language.

 

[dtbingle]

I have an ‘18 SR5.

As for item #1, mine never has displayed the wandering yours has. Neither with the OEM rubber and the Load Range E, stock size BFG All Terrain T/A KO2s I put on not long after I took delivery. The first thing that came to mind is over pressurization of your tires. Not uncommon for dealers to ignore this and tires be way over maximum pressure right from the lot.

As for braking, mine isn’t what I’d call aggressive and seems quite linear to me. The only thing that took me by surprise is the panic braking feature that keeps the brakes at maximum after you let off. Scared the crap out of me the first time it happened. It’s only happened once since.

Yeah, I’m not a fan of chimes either, but after I got used to stuff the chimes are less intrusive and stay quiet.

I have yet to experience that panic braking feature, but have seen it mentioned quite a few times. I think it was described as "first time it happened I had to change my underwear".

Tire pressures are correct now, but as you mentioned they were like 10 psi over from the dealer.

Relative to other vehicles the 4Runner will absolutely feel like it wanders around. It’s also very difficult to get tires balanced well enough to not feel issues on the front. It is what it is.

Agree on the second point, not so much on the first. Compared to a unibody SUV, sure, but my 4runner wanders quite a bit more compared to other BOF SUVs and trucks.

 

[wsu_runner]

I think if "initial bite is very aggressive", that brakes already dragging and slightest pressure from brake pedal, makes them aggressively bite.
If I had a new 4runner right now:
I would service all brakes, make sure pistons floating freely, add pink lube.
And install oil catch can immediately.
And switched to 5w30 immediately.
And apply fluid film immediately.
And vinyl cover paint over metal panels (including roof) immediately.
And check level of WS by adding one quart, warm up to spec temp and drain until trickle.
And bought trailer and ATV to have fun on weekend in a dirt (in ATV, not in 4R).
And add in-line transmission cooler.

Aside from the braking comment, how do the rest of your suggestions relate to OP's questions 1-4?

 

[BorotHex]

Agree on the second point, not so much on the first. Compared to a unibody SUV, sure, but my 4runner wanders quite a bit more compared to other BOF SUVs and trucks.

What vehicle, or type of vehicles, did you come from prior to the 4Runner?

 

[Forgetful]

Definitely will check the brakes at next tire rotation, but from googling around it seems related to the brake booster / poor calibration. Reading some theories that the brake booster engages differently with how quickly the brake pedal is pressed vs. just pedal position/pressure. Seeing this pop up on tacoma and I think tundra forums too. Will have to pay attention more closely. Either way, I have a feeling it's just something to get used to.

Not sure I'm on board with needing an oil catch can or steering away from 0W-30 that the manual specifies. Are there a large number of issues related to not doing these?

I do agree on the fluid film / similar. Did that on my jeep and it worked well. This time, I took it to Krown where they drilled holes in a few locations to access all interior body areas and was very pleased overall.

Vinyl cover paint over metal panels? Not sure I follow what surfaces you're referencing

0w-20 is Toyota spec

 

[Saker]

Purchased a 2021 4Runner SR5 about 4 months ago and have driven it ~3k miles. Overall, it was a huge step up in on-road comfort coming from a JKU wrangler and I like the vehicle, but there are a few aspects I'm not a fan of. Posting this in case anyone can relate so that we can suffer together

1) Wandering and loose steering in general
The vehicle seems to wander a lot and require constant input to the steering wheel. The steering wheel turning effort is also very low and even the slightest adjustment has a rather aggressive effect on where the vehicle is tracking. I feel like it will start to wander one direction, I correct the wheel, then it wanders the other direction, can never get it going straight, and feels sketchy to look down at the radio even for a split second in fear of going into another lane.

Checked alignment and as suspected caster was at the very low end of factory tolerance (near 2.75), camber on one side was a off, and toe in wasn't as even as I'd like. After correcting these numbers and getting caster near high end of factory tolerance of 3.75 deg, this wandering is MUCH better. It still has some sense of wandering and looseness in the wheel, but magnitudes better than before.

Open to suggestions on alignment to improve this further. Also, do I need to worry about SAI being out if caster/camber are good?


2) Sensitive gas/brake pedals
The gas and brake pedals are SUPER sensitive. I'm getting used to the gas pedal, but having major issues getting used to the brake pedal. The initial bite is very aggressive with even the tiniest amount of pressure on the brake and then does not feel linear as you come to a stop - especially during downshifts. It feels like the braking pressure changes - or maybe it's just hard to manage the tiny brake pedal input as the shift happens and bucks the front of the vehicle up a bit.

Any ways to improve this? Different brake pads with less of an initial bite?


3) Brake nose dive
Does have a fair bit of body roll, which may even contribute to the small amount of wandering that wasn't corrected by an alignment. However, I don't find the body roll to be too bothersome.

The nose dive on the other hand during braking is a bit much, even at low to moderate braking patterns. Stopping from a medium speed over a long distance where you can slowly come to a stop isn't too bad, but stop and go traffic is irritating.

I'm thinking to try out the Bilstein 4600's with stock coils and see if that helps at all.


4) Excessive number of chimes
The number of chimes is ridiculous and they are lengthy high-pitched frequencies that are just awful to listen to. 75% of them can just go away.

Have to look at TechStream options of which chimes can and can't be turned off.

Reading your post, correct tire pressure for the tire you are running. Don’t overpressure a p rated tire, it will wander.
Your alignment seems off on the final.
See my specs after mine was lifted 2” in photo below.
It does not wander at all.

Gas pedal sensitive? REALLY, not on the last 2 T4R’s I had!!!!
Brake pedal sensitive? Not here.

Nose dive…. It’s a big suv with soft suspension
Want to rid yourself of the dive and body roll, change coilovers and front springs.

Chimes, too many IMHO.

 

[4r-4ever]

maybe you don't notice when you are driving you keep moving the steering wheel. a slight movement of the steering wheel makes it move quickly and that maybe different with your old suv. you might be in the stage of adjusting to it.

i've driven my 2020 4runner for 25000 miles, mostly long distance driving and it seems to drive okay when i drive it. when my wife is the driver during those times, i see her contantly moving the steering wheel and i feel it when she does.

 

[honda250xtitan]

moooooore castor. "in spec" doesnt mean its the best. it just means its a happy compromise for most people. touchy pedals are just things youll have to get used to IMO.

 

[MY1990-22re]

My 32yr old 4Runner wanders FAR LESS than my straight axle HD Dodge, the runner steers like a sports car by comparison. The Dodge has had well over $3K of steering upgrades as well, but the Cummins makes it worth it. I have a deposit/“order” for a 22 ORP.

 

[dtbingle]

0w-20 is Toyota spec

Yes, sorry, fatfingered that one.
Toyota spec is 0w-20, which I'm going to stick to.
Not sure why 5w-30 is being suggested?

What vehicle, or type of vehicles, did you come from prior to the 4Runner?

Personal vehicle was 18' JKU and 11' Jeep Liberty before that.
However, I'm fortunate at work to get lots of seat time driving vehicles in this class.....newer JLU wrangler, ram 1500 / trx, ford broncos, rangers, f150s / raptors.

Reading your post, correct tire pressure for the tire you are running. Don’t overpressure a p rated tire, it will wander.
Your alignment seems off on the final.
See my specs after mine was lifted 2” in photo below.
It does not wander at all.

Gas pedal sensitive? REALLY, not on the last 2 T4R’s I had!!!!
Brake pedal sensitive? Not here.

Nose dive…. It’s a big suv with soft suspension
Want to rid yourself of the dive and body roll, change coilovers and front springs.

Chimes, too many IMHO.

What's off on my final alignment spec? I shot for high caster based on forum suggestions in response to similar symptoms. Seems like it's a common post-lift effect where you can't achieve higher caster numbers without aftermarket UCAs and results in tracking straight poorly. Glad to hear your setup is working though! I'm likely going to try out the Bilstein 4600s and will have a chance to redo the alignment again. Will likely shoot for a tiny bit closer camber (-0.02 is factory nominal) and a bit more toe (like -0.06 each side).

I'm thinking that the looser steering wheel feel and factory dunlop tires account for the remainder of my "more wandering compared to other vehicles". I would say on smooth asphalt the 4runner is pretty comparable post-alignment, but on grooved concrete the wandering is worse, which points to tires.

I'm sticking with my sensitive pedal assessment! I'm sure it's just something to adjust to though. My previous jeeps are the opposite and probably the least sensitive pedals I've driven. I did a few brakes in neutral to eliminate shifting and I take back my earlier comment...they do seem linear. I think the nose dive exaggerates any minor changes in deceleration rate when it downshifts.

 

[Saker]

What's off on my final alignment spec?

I may have read it wrong on the "After" specs...... I thought the readings in the RED were out of spec!

 

[John in NC]

I'll say that the emergency braking on my 2011 is sketchy. Nosedive, feels squirrely, and not confidence inspiring at all.

At first I was turned off by the straight line tracking at highway speeds, but I guess I'm used to it.

Throttle response to me could be better, and if you drive easy like me it wants to shift early, then is very sluggish after that.

Low end torque could be improved and it would help give it that easy part throttle acceleration feel you get in some vehicles.

Rear visibility isn't great, I'd like more of a greenhouse feel.

Paint quality/ rust issues/ frame rust... ouch.

Otherwise, I'm satisfied.
Edit- I sound like a complainer, I'm stoked that the 2011 runs and drives pretty much like new with 145,000 miles on it. Really no unexpected maintenance items... I'll take that as a big win!

 

[catrains]

I bled my brakes new and had air in the brake fluid .. runner was dipping when doing the brakes .. air was removed in the brake lines no dipping ..
next the toe front was toe out .. I did the work to adjust the toe to the in a small amount .2 ...
now my tires are looking the same wear .. treads are the same wear across the treads .. looks all the tires .
steering wheel on a very nice road works very good and no drifting .

 

[FOGO DE CHAO]

2022 with like 1200 miles and noticed the wandering. But it's not all that bad. It's literally getting new wheels and tires put on right now so we'll see how that changes things. Brakes seem good to me. I've had or driven cars with way grabbier brakes so I like these. Nose dives but that's because of the factory rake and shocks. Could fix that with stiffer suspension or lifting the front like I'm doing. The nose diving is probably on purpose too because probably puts weight on the front end to make it steer good when braking but that's just a guess.

 

[scanny]

I remembered I noticed wandering when I got my 2010 4Runner long time ago. I fixed the issue to put 34psi in tires. Then I replaced tires to LT ones and run them on 37-38 psi. After that I forgot about wandering. My new 4Runner came with stock tires aired ay 50 psi, I got pressure down to 36psi and didn't notice any wandering. As per nose diving, I got used to it for the past 11 years driving 4Runner. Got a habit to apply brakes gradually, so there's almost no nose drive. I was thinking about stiffer shocks at the beginning, but after few offroad trips and driving a lot on gravel and dirt roads I came to appreciate 4Runner suspension : )