2021 OEM LED Headlights

[Saker]

May take a bunch of us doing this. Mine has to have a 1K check on the lift, and I'll have my dealer do the same.

It may take the community to voice concerns and it also may take filing with NHTSA.

 

[rageandlove]

OK, here's an alternate explanation. I went out driving last night because I'm trying to burn a tank of gas. I made a point of driving down some pretty dark roads, etc.

To set up my potential explanation below, the position of the rectangles is interesting. It's basically right below the cutoff on the left-hand side. So in addition to the normal stair-step on the cutoff line, it's essentially a second stair-step cutoff:

And it can't of been put in such a specific spot on both sides by accident.

----------------------

Anyway, so I'm out driving. One thing I noticed is that when you are on a 2-lane undivided road, the stair-step in the cutoff line perfectly aligns with the middle of the road. Which is by design. So you get a longer throw on in front of your car and shorter throw into the oncoming traffic lane, so less glare for oncoming drivers. That's expected.

But the other thing I noticed is that those two squares, when the car is travelling straight, end up in the middle of the oncoming traffic lane. Which would create even less glare for oncoming traffic when they initially hit your beam pattern.

So I suspect that they were put in that spot intentionally for the benefit of oncoming traffic.

Will be interesting to hear what Toyota says, if you can ever find someone related to the engineering of those lights. I'm skeptical you will be able to make it that far into the machine based on my experience, but I hope you do.

 

[Saker]

[MENTION=202061]rageandlove[/MENTION]

Thanks for your explanation.
It seems strange they would do that as there is already a cut-off line to prevent that if properly adjusted.
Also, why would they include that obstruction in both assemblies?

Let us know if you find any other vehicles that have it in the projected light beams.

Thx again.

 

[Ed_C]

Rage's explanation is pretty on point.

I can't disclose what manufacturer I test drive vehicles for, but their more recent (last 2 years or so) projector LED headlight systems do have similar "notch" cutoffs, it's not just Toyota. I've also seen photos of Kia or Hyundai projector headlights with similar cutoffs.

 

[rageandlove]

[MENTION=202061]rageandlove[/MENTION]

Thanks for your explanation.
It seems strange they would do that as there is already a cut-off line to prevent that if properly adjusted.
Also, why would they include that obstruction in both assemblies?

Let us know if you find any other vehicles that have it in the projected light beams.

Thx again.

Based on [MENTION=75868]Ed_C[/MENTION] 's comment I typed "Hyundi LED Beam Pattern" and found an identical set of conversations in their forum, with the same conclusion. By design to further reduce the glare for oncoming drivers. They get an asymmetrical V not a square, but same implementation.

Here's a good explanation with a chart from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety that shows how the outcome is that you get the shortest beam pattern in the lane beside you and then more on either side of that. It's quite clear from that chart.

Sadly, they don't have the chart for the 2021 4Runner yet, just the 2019. And it gets a "poor" rating. Which all of us know.

 

[uh0h50]

OK, here's an alternate explanation. I went out driving last night because I'm trying to burn a tank of gas. I made a point of driving down some pretty dark roads, etc.

To set up my potential explanation below, the position of the rectangles is interesting. It's basically right below the cutoff on the left-hand side. So in addition to the normal stair-step on the cutoff line, it's essentially a second stair-step cutoff:

And it can't of been put in such a specific spot on both sides by accident.

----------------------

Anyway, so I'm out driving. One thing I noticed is that when you are on a 2-lane undivided road, the stair-step in the cutoff line perfectly aligns with the middle of the road. Which is by design. So you get a longer throw on in front of your car and shorter throw into the oncoming traffic lane, so less glare for oncoming drivers. That's expected.

But the other thing I noticed is that those two squares, when the car is travelling straight, end up in the middle of the oncoming traffic lane. Which would create even less glare for oncoming traffic when they initially hit your beam pattern.

So I suspect that they were put in that spot intentionally for the benefit of oncoming traffic.

Will be interesting to hear what Toyota says, if you can ever find someone related to the engineering of those lights. I'm skeptical you will be able to make it that far into the machine based on my experience, but I hope you do.

Great explanation. Those dead squares would indicate the hotspot positions of the headlight beam.

 

[Saker]

Rage's explanation is pretty on point.

I can't disclose what manufacturer I test drive vehicles for, but their more recent (last 2 years or so) projector LED headlight systems do have similar "notch" cutoffs, it's not just Toyota. I've also seen photos of Kia or Hyundai projector headlights with similar cutoffs.

Based on [MENTION=75868]Ed_C[/MENTION] 's comment I typed "Hyundi LED Beam Pattern" and found an identical set of conversations in their forum, with the same conclusion. By design to further reduce the glare for oncoming drivers. They get an asymmetrical V not a square, but same implementation.

Here's a good explanation with a chart from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety that shows how the outcome is that you get the shortest beam pattern in the lane beside you and then more on either side of that. It's quite clear from that chart.

Sadly, they don't have the chart for the 2021 4Runner yet, just the 2019. And it gets a "poor" rating. Which all of us know.

Thanks guys for the information.

That’s why we all reach out to the community.

What gets me is Toyota could not give me the information you have posted.
Seems a bit strange. They should have answers, since it was passed on and I got a second call about said concern.

Thanks again !

 

[Tooly]

Could this also be because there is no automatic headlight leveling system on the 4R? On my other car, a 2018 VW GTI with LED headlights, there is a small arm attached to the drivers side control arms front and rear that adjust the level of the beam depending on the cars position on the road so as not to blind oncoming traffic. Its headlights do not have the deadspot the 4R LED's do.

This issue could also be a compromise due to the outdated DOT headlight regs.

 

[Drizzie]

Rage's explanation is pretty on point.

I can't disclose what manufacturer I test drive vehicles for, but their more recent (last 2 years or so) projector LED headlight systems do have similar "notch" cutoffs, it's not just Toyota. I've also seen photos of Kia or Hyundai projector headlights with similar cutoffs.

You can't disclose but maybe blink twice if it is Audi? My Q3 has a very noticeable notch below the cutoff on the drivers side that would certainly help glare for oncoming drivers.

 

[steraser]

I have no idea what I'm talking about and the explanation sounds reasonable but... Did Toyota really invest that kind of R&D into cramming an LED into the standard housing?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Axix23]

Thanks guys for the information.

That’s why we all reach out to the community.

What gets me is Toyota could not give me the information you have posted.
Seems a bit strange. They should have answers, since it was passed on and I got a second call about said concern.

Thanks again !

I don't think the people at Toyota you contacted even knows. This would be a question for their engineers and r/d department.. lol

 

[Saker]

I don't think the people at Toyota you contacted even knows. This would be a question for their engineers and r/d department.. lol

You are correct.
I asked for someone like a tech or engineering to contact me get answers.
That didn’t happen.

 

[Axix23]

You are correct.
I asked for someone like a tech or engineering to contact me get answers.
That didn’t happen.

yeah, unfortunately they already got your money and customer service these days aren't too high on manufactures' list.

 

[Saker]

yeah, unfortunately they already got your money and customer service these days aren't too high on manufactures' list.

I beg to differ, only issue I’ve had with Toyota has been this response. And it’s possibly not over.
They may contact me with the very same explanation that has been documented above.
Customer service makes or breaks companies and I don’t think Toyota wants or is in the latter.
YMMV

But thanks for your opinion.

 

[Saker]

So I’m closing this thread.
If something else develops, I’ll reopen it.

Thanks everyone for their response.