You're buying the wrong vehicle if you're worried about rollover on a BOF SUV. There are inherent limitations to the platform that are not going to be overcome no matter how much you threaten your engineers.
2022 6th gen is coming
- Thread starter VoodooPro
- Start date
You're buying the wrong vehicle if you're worried about rollover on a BOF SUV. There are inherent limitations to the platform that are not going to be overcome no matter how much you threaten your engineers.
There is actually a lot you can do to reduce the propensity of rollovers. Sophisticated stability control is done really well by Mercedes, BMW, and Audi. The systems cost a lot of money and R&R time. I actually saw one in action the other day where a semi swerved into the lane of a large BMW SUV. The driver overcorrected and swung out wildly and back and I was 100% sure the vehicle was going to flip when she swung back but something happened and it managed to calm the vehicle down. I was seriously shocked. We have nothing that sophisticated like Dynamic Stability Control, in my opinion. There is a lot that can be done and it does raise the cost and price.
I do drive a lifted Jeep that suffers from the same "flaw" especially since it is lifted by 3 inches and has 35s on top of that. I would like to see some of that more sophisticated ESC comes into the 4R. I think BMW worked for years with Continental and Bosch to develop their version. Mercedes and Audi probably did something similar. Just my thoughts....
I do drive a lifted Jeep that suffers from the same "flaw" especially since it is lifted by 3 inches and has 35s on top of that. I would like to see some of that more sophisticated ESC comes into the 4R. I think BMW worked for years with Continental and Bosch to develop their version. Mercedes and Audi probably did something similar. Just my thoughts....
ElectroBoy
Banned
How many forum members have experienced a rollover?
Or heard about one?
Maybe you could start a thread with a poll about this issue.
Jetboy
New member
It's a non-issue. Almost 100% of roll overs in modern vehicles are due to "tripping" where the vehicle hits a tripping object and then rolls. It's nearly impossible to roll any modern vehicle without a trip point. And if you do have a trip point - almost all modern vehicles roll over. The person read one report that high COG vehicles including the 4Runner are more likely to roll than low COG vehicles like sedans and then for some reason created a trolling account here to come comment.
And yes - toyota has sophisticated stability control software. Yes it's probably as good or better than BMW or Mercedes. Toyota has a lot more resources to tackle these types of problems. In fact Toyota was the first company to develop and manufacturer vehicles with VSC.
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Not exactly. It is IIHS testing and NHTSA that determines the % or risk of a vehicle to roll over and I believe there are two types of causes- only includes the Dynamic Tip test (I forgot the other). The 4R performed poorly in the other test but no worse than the Durango or Tahoe...maybe slightly better. It performed poorly against other SUVs that have more sophisticated ESC systems.
My take is that they really do need to address the rollover issue with technology and not by reducing clearance or height. They also need to increase torque and power. The current suspension is very good, at least on pavement and dirt roads.
My take is that they really do need to address the rollover issue with technology and not by reducing clearance or height. They also need to increase torque and power. The current suspension is very good, at least on pavement and dirt roads.
Jetboy
New member
In the real world over 95% of roll overs are the result of tripping. - NHTSA
Also NHTSA:
"The rollover resistance rating is based on an at-rest laboratory measurement known as the Static Stability Factor (SSF) that determines how “top-heavy” a vehicle is, and the results of a driving maneuver that tests whether a vehicle is vulnerable to tipping up on the road in a severe maneuver." (neither of which involve a tripping object)
So NHTSA's testing applies to a very small portion of roll overs. And all BOF vehicles with high clearance have about the same results. Nothing new to see here. When you have an anomaly like a unibody crossover failing in the moose test, that's note worthy. This - this is not note worthy. It's exactly as expected.
And - Toyota has 3 suspension options. 2 of which have dramatically improved handling on the road including the j-hook manouver - but most buyers don't option KDSS or buy a Limited with XREAS. If you care about this and didn't buy one of those - you actually don't care that much.
Also NHTSA:
"The rollover resistance rating is based on an at-rest laboratory measurement known as the Static Stability Factor (SSF) that determines how “top-heavy” a vehicle is, and the results of a driving maneuver that tests whether a vehicle is vulnerable to tipping up on the road in a severe maneuver." (neither of which involve a tripping object)
So NHTSA's testing applies to a very small portion of roll overs. And all BOF vehicles with high clearance have about the same results. Nothing new to see here. When you have an anomaly like a unibody crossover failing in the moose test, that's note worthy. This - this is not note worthy. It's exactly as expected.
And - Toyota has 3 suspension options. 2 of which have dramatically improved handling on the road including the j-hook manouver - but most buyers don't option KDSS or buy a Limited with XREAS. If you care about this and didn't buy one of those - you actually don't care that much.
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Why are some people such fanboys? I don't get it. I guess any criticism is taken personally.
It is the same win the other forums- Jeep guys are the same way but I think Toyota guys are a bit worse. Nissan guys are doing the same thing. There are always a few who will defend everything. I'd rather see the vehicle improve. There are things the Wrangler can do better but there are always a few guys who take it personally. The Wrangler outclasses the 4R and FJ and Xterra on tough trails but there are always those 2-3 IFS defenders who defend it to death. They obviously have not wheeled all like many of us have wheeled IFS and SFA vehicles for decades.. Who cares...just enjoy the scenery, be safe, and give feedback to the company to make it better. I have no loyalty to any brand...I go with what I like and what suits me the best. The 4R does have a rollover problem and I'm guessing the XREAS is much better...I have driven both and actually love the way XREAS works on pavement. It leaks though, and that is why many have given up on it.
It is the same win the other forums- Jeep guys are the same way but I think Toyota guys are a bit worse. Nissan guys are doing the same thing. There are always a few who will defend everything. I'd rather see the vehicle improve. There are things the Wrangler can do better but there are always a few guys who take it personally. The Wrangler outclasses the 4R and FJ and Xterra on tough trails but there are always those 2-3 IFS defenders who defend it to death. They obviously have not wheeled all like many of us have wheeled IFS and SFA vehicles for decades.. Who cares...just enjoy the scenery, be safe, and give feedback to the company to make it better. I have no loyalty to any brand...I go with what I like and what suits me the best. The 4R does have a rollover problem and I'm guessing the XREAS is much better...I have driven both and actually love the way XREAS works on pavement. It leaks though, and that is why many have given up on it.
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Jetboy
New member
Informed criticism is great. This is not. This is just a function of blind faith in a number without context. And as a result it's about as meaningful as complaining that the turning radius of an F250 is longer than a Rav4. - Yeah, no shit? Who could have guessed a 4Runner has a higher COG than a unibody crossover and would have about the same stability as every other BOF suv?
If you want this to be meaningful - prove that I'm wrong. Show me one BOF SUV that's comparable to the 4Runner with a meaningfully better test score.
If you want this to be meaningful - prove that I'm wrong. Show me one BOF SUV that's comparable to the 4Runner with a meaningfully better test score.
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thennen
New member
Yep. IMO, things such as rollover propensity is considerably more a function of driver input than it is vehicle design. I have a Scion xA, which is by no means a sports car - more an economy subcompact. But because it sits lower and has a wider wheelbase proportionate to its height, I'm much more comfortable tossing it into a turn than I am my 4Runner. As Jetboy says, all similarly-proportioned vehicles probably behave similarly, and in a sudden real-life avoidance maneuver, you probably wouldn't be able to discern a 2.6% greater inclination to roll over. At that point, you need to be familiar with your vehicle - that's the best preventive in my view.
LandCruiser
New member
A base model Land Cruiser in the rest of the world starts around $43k USD. If they would sell the base model here, I think folks would buy them in a lot higher numbers than the $85k version.
They are very basic though. Vinyl floor.
Can't have that, the 30 people who bought one for 90k will be mad... or something.
CO-Cygnus
New member
Probably the same reason we can't get the 4.6 in the 4R... the poor GX owners...
Jetboy
New member
Funny thing is, a four or five year old GX is usually cheaper than a comparable 4runner. The Land cruiser is weirdly high in resale. Especially compared to the LX. Hard for me to understand the difference, other than the LX to me is kind of hideous as far as doing bumper covers.
LandCruiser
New member
Depreciation on the BOF Lexuses is substantial compared to the Toyotas for some reason, even if they're in great shape.
Totally agree. I hear people talking about roll over this roll over that.
I don't personally know anybody that has rolled 4runner (none the less any SUV) in the street. However, I had one friend that got rolled in his Toyota truck in 1985, when he got T-boned at an intersection. That is the only 4wd street roll over that I personally know of.
The biggest risk to getting hurt in a car accident is the loose nut behind the wheel.
Not to be disagreeable but it happened to me. Of course I was broadsided by a suburban going at least 45mph. Hit passenger side, rolled, and ended up on the impact side. Airbags worked well
And for the record I went and bought another 4 runner to replace this one.
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And for the record I went and bought another 4 runner to replace this one.
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CO-Cygnus
New member
Not to be disagreeable but it happened to me. Of course I was broadsided by a suburban going at least 45mph. Hit passenger side, rolled, and ended up on the impact side. Airbags worked well
And for the record I went and bought another 4 runner to replace this one.
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Sorry that happened, but a lot of cars and trucks can roll if they get T-Boned... especially at 45 MPH.
Not to be disagreeable but it happened to me. Of course I was broadsided by a suburban going at least 45mph. Hit passenger side, rolled, and ended up on the impact side. Airbags worked well
And for the record I went and bought another 4 runner to replace this one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Super similar thing happened to my neighbour. They didn't have a scratch on them. Went back out and bought another brand new one!
NoDak
Senior Member
people need to stop beating this dead horse.
the v8 was dropped from the 4runner lineup from toyota as a financial decision so as to no cut into the GX series sales. if you want a v8, toyota expected you to step up to the lexus brand (ie: more profit for toyota per vehicle).
CO-Cygnus
New member
That’s what I said...
