3rd gen alignment specs. What to go with?

[Miyota]

Alright, I need a little help from everyone here. My 2000 limited is having issues with driving poorly and the upper ball joints are binding. It has been lifted for only a year, up front I have toytec coils on Bilstein 5100's set in the middle slot and out back I have toytec superflex coils and 5100's. I did use the 1" differential drop kit up front and put a pan hard drop bracket out back. So I have decided to upgrade the upper control arms all together with the following to correct the ball joints that are binding and give me more flexibility with alignment.

25460 - SPC Upper Control Arms for 95.5-04 Tacoma and 96-02 4Runner

Now I know some of you out there will be asking why not uniball? Well up hear in the Northeast the salt in the winter time is un-earthly and ruins things quite quickly. So this option will give me better camber and caster adjustment and it's sealed off from the road salt.

My question to all of you out there with 3" of lift is how far out from the original alignment specs should I go with all of this. Driving my truck at 65 down the turnpike it floats all over the road and even in town the steering wheel only returns to center with help. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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[fourfive]

Keep the alignment within the factory specs. I went with less caster with my SPC uppers to clear my 35s. I only did this because it did not compromise the handling compared to when I had my alignment in the factory range.

 

[JayRolla]

What size tires are you running?

 

[Miyota]

I am running 285s. I just want it to handle like factory even with the lift. Do you think the fact that it doesn't return to center is from the ball joints binding?

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[Junkwhale]

What can actually be adjusted in terms of alignment on 3rd gens? I'm pretty new to them and haven't actually had a chance to get mine off the ground and look at the suspension.

For the fronts (double a-arms?) I'm assuming camber / caster via eccentrics, and toe?

What about the solid rear? Is it just toe? (if even that?)

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Alright, I need a little help from everyone here. My 2000 limited is having issues with driving poorly and the upper ball joints are binding. It has been lifted for only a year, up front I have toytec coils on Bilstein 5100's set in the middle slot and out back I have toytec superflex coils and 5100's. I did use the 1" differential drop kit up front and put a pan hard drop bracket out back. So I have decided to upgrade the upper control arms all together with the following to correct the ball joints that are binding and give me more flexibility with alignment.

25460 - SPC Upper Control Arms for 95.5-04 Tacoma and 96-02 4Runner

Now I know some of you out there will be asking why not uniball? Well up hear in the Northeast the salt in the winter time is un-earthly and ruins things quite quickly. So this option will give me better camber and caster adjustment and it's sealed off from the road salt.

My question to all of you out there with 3" of lift is how far out from the original alignment specs should I go with all of this. Driving my truck at 65 down the turnpike it floats all over the road and even in town the steering wheel only returns to center with help. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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The reason it's having the issues your describing is because of the loss of caster with the lift. I'll bet you have near zero caster when factory spec is between 1.7 to 3.4 degrees with no more than .5 difference left to right. It's a slippery slope with caster. Too much and the wheel makes contact with the front of the fender or the flares, too little and you'll hit the rear of the wheel well. Surprised you're not rubbing on the rear well right now.

 

[IBallEngineer]

I am running 285s. I just want it to handle like factory even with the lift. Do you think the fact that it doesn't return to center is from the ball joints binding?

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Of course we can only give you a theoretical answer here, I've never seen ball joints bind. The two angles that create self centering steering are Caster and Steering Axis Incliniation(SAI). They are both the same line drawn between the upper and lower ball joints. Caster is measured as viewed from the side of the vehicle, and SAI is measured as viewed from the front of the vehicle.

Generally the lift pushes the suspension down so the angles change, in a negative way. The Caster becomes less positive, and so does the SAI. Aftermarket upper arms help to correct these angles by placing the ball joint slightly rearward(positive caster) and inboard(positive SAI).

It would be good if you had alignment readings as a baseline, so you could know where you might end up with the new arms.

Here is some further explanation.


Circles and Arrows

op2:

 

[IBallEngineer]

What can actually be adjusted in terms of alignment on 3rd gens? I'm pretty new to them and haven't actually had a chance to get mine off the ground and look at the suspension.

For the fronts (double a-arms?) I'm assuming camber / caster via eccentrics, and toe?

What about the solid rear? Is it just toe? (if even that?)

No rear adjustment on a solid axle. The front uses a long arm short arm set up with eccentrics on the lower arms. This allows both camber and caster adjustments. Haven't seen a vehicle without toe adjustment on the steering axle.

 

[Miyota]

The reason it's having the issues your describing is because of the loss of caster with the lift. I'll bet you have near zero caster when factory spec is between 1.7 to 3.4 degrees with no more than .5 difference left to right. It's a slippery slope with caster. Too much and the wheel makes contact with the front of the fender or the flares, too little and you'll hit the rear of the wheel well. Surprised you're not rubbing on the rear well right now.

I had to trim my fender flares front and rear for the tires to clear and the tire rubs on the rear of the frame when it's at full turn.

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[Miyota]

Of course we can only give you a theoretical answer here, I've never seen ball joints bind. The two angles that create self centering steering are Caster and Steering Axis Incliniation(SAI). They are both the same line drawn between the upper and lower ball joints. Caster is measured as viewed from the side of the vehicle, and SAI is measured as viewed from the front of the vehicle.

Generally the lift pushes the suspension down so the angles change, in a negative way. The Caster becomes less positive, and so does the SAI. Aftermarket upper arms help to correct these angles by placing the ball joint slightly rearward(positive caster) and inboard(positive SAI).

It would be good if you had alignment readings as a baseline, so you could know where you might end up with the new arms.

Here is some further explanation.


Circles and Arrows

op2:

Thank you for sending that and giving me that explanation. I can't find my print out from my last alignment. I know it was within specs and I think because they got is so close to factory with the amount of lift that is why I am having a binding problem. I found a post on TORRA that had to do with 3" spacer lifts (I don't have a spacer lift but I have 3" of lift) and I said if you have that much lift there is a good chance of your upper ball joints binding.

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110876

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[phattyduck]

The binding comes form excessive lift from a spacer that allows excessive droop (top spacer above from coilover). The binding happens at full droop, not at ride height.

-Charlie