4Runner 5th Gen - Last of the Dinosaurs

[thennen]

Comfort?! With all the lush features that 4Runners come equipped with? Even the Limited interior and tech is worse than a well equipped Hyndai.

My 2019 OR is the most comfortable vehicle I’ve owned.

 

[thennen]

Given how popular the Gladiator version of the Jeep is, I'd be curious when Ford plans to come out with something like that for the Bronco.

I don’t see many Gladiators in Ohio. I think any popularity they’re enjoying will be short-lived due to the plethora of nicer pickups available.

 

[thennen]

I thought that Gladiator sales were tanking? I never see any of those ugly things-even a trip to Colorado I saw maybe two, yes anecdotal -but 4runners, Tacos and Wranglers were everywhere.

Gladiator is a good example of the risks an automaker takes when introducing a new model. On paper it probably looked great - use a lot of Wrangler parts and add a bed. Selling them is a whole ‘nother thing.

 

[04rnr]

The new Nissan Frontier will be for sale sometime later this year. The Bronco is Back in 2021 and even the Dodge Dakota will be back in 2022. Unless I am missing something, the Land Cruiser 2007 and the 4Runner 2010 are the last of the dinosaurs. After seeing the new Ford Bronco, I think it is time for Toyota to step up to the plate.

I was ckecking the new Bronco out this morning, BASE model with the Sasquatch Package Id be happy. I will wait a year or two so they get ALL the bugs worked out, but yea, may be time to leave toyota after about 25 years.
:guitar2:

 

[AZ Craig]

They are tanking, that's why you see incentives galore for a brand new model.

Problem with the Gladiator is that it costs more than every "mid-size" pickup it compares to if you map out similar equipment on it.

Once everyone who didn't mind spending an extra $5000 to $10000 for the novelty of a Jeep pickup truck was satisfied got one, moving these things has gotten really hard for FCA.

 

[04rnr]

4Runner fits a nice niche for people that want comfort, space, and also offroading. Bronco/Wrangler do not do that.

How do you know how the new Bronco does off-road and drive? are you able to wheel one or drive one yet?

 

[salsanacho]

I was ckecking the new Bronco out this morning, BASE model with the Sasquatch Package Id be happy. I will wait a year or two so they get ALL the bugs worked out, but yea, may be time to leave toyota after about 25 years.
:guitar2:

Agreed, I am always hesitant to buy a first model year car. I like to give them a couple years to find the little (or big) things that their QA process couldn't find.

 

[750ml]

One big reason that the 4runners hold their value so well is that Toyota rarely changes the design. If they played the same games that domestic auto makers played our vehicles would see far more depreciation. Me thinks we have to be careful what we ask for.

 

[AMLOR]

Given how popular the Gladiator version of the Jeep is...

Amazing isn't it? I was very curious about the Gladiator when it was first announced. I am reasonably sure it turned out to be the butt ugliest vehicle I have ever seen...especially in the soft top version.:repuke:

 

[bring_it_on]

My 2019 OR is the most comfortable vehicle I’ve owned.

This is a good point. Comfort means different things to different people, but Toyota does well to engineer its BOF trucks to make them comfortable which is relative obviously to other decisions the company makes like sticking with BOF construction and avoiding air suspensions on these vehicles etc. They are comfortable though not as luxurious as competition. The 4Runner does a good job, but the LC200 really takes it to another level IMO. And both of these are competing with unibody vehicles like the Grand Cherokee, Land Rovers etc. As long as the fundamentals are good for basic off-road, and the vehicle is well engineered for reliability and is tried and tested, I'm happy to overlook the warts and take care of things I need to take care of to suite my own needs. This, to me, is 10X better than a company throwing the entire kitchen sink of its R&D at offering capability and not getting anything in particular exactly the way it should be.

It is very easy to fall into the trap of polling or trying to find out 10-15 things a particular targted demographic wants and unleashing your R&D on getting that. You may end up checking boxes but you will always struggle to get everything as dialed in as you ought to have. I'd much rather get a vehicle that gets the fundamentals right and then work around the things that don't work for me. It is easier and cheaper (long term) to do that. This is the reason that the 70 series is still in production despite its obvious shortcomings right out of the dealership, and why the 80 and 105 series are so desirable as overland vehicles globally and why the 5th gen 4Runner has been doing well in its category despite being quite old and in need of a major refresh. For the most part, Toyota got the fundamentals right with these designs.. and these are global platforms across Toyota, and Lexus lineups and not just US specific vehicles that barely sell outside of US or NA..Major design shortcomings would be easier to detect given their global presence.. Yes, I hated it when my spanking new 4runner (in 2019) didn't have HID or LED lights. But that's an easy fix. Same for interior LED lighting and even the audio system. Better that be the source of my dislike than a completely unreliable vehicle that may look great, and may even perform great when it works but isn't engineered to the same degree of reliability and longevity. There is something to be said about loading up your rig right up to its GVW and being confident that it can handle..

I'd much rather live without factory HID lights or a more modern infotainment system than live with something like this below (my wife had the 2016 Jeep GC till just 5 months ago) -

Current Jeep Grand Cherokee Has Been Recalled 20 Times In Australia | Carscoops.

The 2020 Gladiator earns a below-average predicted reliability rating of 2.5 out of five from J.D. Power.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks...020 Gladiator earns a,of five from J.D. Power.

 

[ryan_a]

I love the looks of the new Bronco. My wife’s dream car is an old Bronco and they are getting so expensive and I don’t think she’d truly enjoy driving one for long. When I got my ‘18 OR I wanted to buy used but old ‘Runners hold their value so well, as we all know. So I’m glad I got mine and someday it will be a cool old 4Runner. I’m glad it doesn’t have too many techno gizmos or lane departure sensors etc. I’m fine that it seems aged, because it it]s still a ton of fun taking it out into the desert or Sierras and it’s gets better with each scratch. If the 4Runner gets too many things added I don’t think I’d be interested. Just like I’m not interested in selling it for a Bronco. My 1994 Ford Explorer was a POS. don’t know if I could ever buy another ford.

 

[mteolus]

Gladiator is a good example of the risks an automaker takes when introducing a new model. On paper it probably looked great - use a lot of Wrangler parts and add a bed. Selling them is a whole ‘nother thing.

Chrysler is bringing the Dakota back in 2022. Probably a Gladiator with different sheet metal and more of a highway truck than off road.

If they would have just put the 4.6 liter 8 cylinder with the 6 speed transmission that the GX has and given it 4.56 gears and was capable of 33 or 34 inch tires without any modifications some of the other stuff wouldn't be too hard to swallow.

The Bronco did hit it out of the park with all the stuff the Saskwatch will have. They thought of just about everything. Even trail maps (who knows if it is as good as GAIA) and and inclinometer like the JL has would be nice to have in the 4Runner. The maps in the 4Runner are worthless, at least to me. The headlights and interior lights are pretty pathetic as well in the 4Runner. Perhaps if the Bronco sells well the 4Runner price will drop.

 

[Jetboy]

This is a good point. Comfort means different things to different people, but Toyota does well to engineer its BOF trucks to make them comfortable which is relative obviously to other decisions the company makes like sticking with BOF construction and avoiding air suspensions on these vehicles etc. They are comfortable though not as luxurious as competition. The 4Runner does a good job, but the LC200 really takes it to another level IMO. And both of these are competing with unibody vehicles like the Grand Cherokee, Land Rovers etc. As long as the fundamentals are good for basic off-road, and the vehicle is well engineered for reliability and is tried and tested, I'm happy to overlook the warts and take care of things I need to take care of to suite my own needs. This, to me, is 10X better than a company throwing the entire kitchen sink of its R&D at offering capability and not getting anything in particular exactly the way it should be.

It is very easy to fall into the trap of polling or trying to find out 10-15 things a particular targted demographic wants and unleashing your R&D on getting that. You may end up checking boxes but you will always struggle to get everything as dialed in as you ought to have. I'd much rather get a vehicle that gets the fundamentals right and then work around the things that don't work for me. It is easier and cheaper (long term) to do that. This is the reason that the 70 series is still in production despite its obvious shortcomings right out of the dealership, and why the 80 and 105 series are so desirable as overland vehicles globally and why the 5th gen 4Runner has been doing well in its category despite being quite old and in need of a major refresh. For the most part, Toyota got the fundamentals right with these designs.. and these are global platforms across Toyota, and Lexus lineups and not just US specific vehicles that barely sell outside of US or NA..Major design shortcomings would be easier to detect given their global presence.. Yes, I hated it when my spanking new 4runner (in 2019) didn't have HID or LED lights. But that's an easy fix. Same for interior LED lighting and even the audio system. Better that be the source of my dislike than a completely unreliable vehicle that may look great, and may even perform great when it works but isn't engineered to the same degree of reliability and longevity. There is something to be said about loading up your rig right up to its GVW and being confident that it can handle..

I'd much rather live without factory HID lights or a more modern infotainment system than live with something like this below (my wife had the 2016 Jeep GC till just 5 months ago) -

Current Jeep Grand Cherokee Has Been Recalled 20 Times In Australia | Carscoops.



https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks...020 Gladiator earns a,of five from J.D. Power.

The thing is - Toyota already makes a v8 engine that's just as good or better than the v6. And it's in the same platform. Toyota already makes a fantastic and very old and heavily tested 8 speed auto (the first one in the world). Toyota already makes fantastic HID headlights. And it has for 20 years. All 4Runners have the wiring ready for auto headlights - but then Toyota chose not to put the $.25 sensor in the dash.

The biggest warts on the 4runner have nothing to do with reliability or R&D. It's already done. We're not asking for anything at all new. Just some of the stuff they already have. It's just purely an issue of Toyota de-contenting the 4Runner for no apparent reason except that there's no competition and they can be lazy and get away with it.

 

[Redsoxx1918]

Eh, I came from a BMW, now have a 4Runner. I doubt the Fox shocks help that much, but I love the space and comfort of the ride. Drives like a dream... for now . I prefer the 4Runner.

In comparison to the Wrangler at least, it is no contest.

I’ve had many BMWs myself and my wife just bought a new X2. All the electronics in that thing are maddening. I hate it. It’s very refreshing when I get back into my 4runner. I just wanna drive.


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[david05111]

Comfort?! With all the lush features that 4Runners come equipped with? Even the Limited interior and tech is worse than a well equipped Hyndai.

It's not the most comfortable thing in the world, but it's not an AMG with 20-way massaging seats, or a RR or Bentley with carpet 2 inches thick. What do you expect?

I wish it had memory seats. Cooled/ventilated seats would be nice. The softex is comfortable for me as is. The infotainment systems on the 2020s are actually pretty nice (8 inch screens I think), loads of cool tech in them.

I have a Range Rover Velar as well. It has this dual touch-screen setup in the middle that I bet loads of people on this site would pine for. It honestly isn't that great. I had a Grand Cherokee California package before that. The infotainment was nice on that (the ability to deal with some of the climate stuff was nice), but I don't think the 2020 4runner system is truly behind it.

I've had Jags, BMWs, Lexuses, Benzs, Cadillacs, Jeeps, etc. Aside from the truly high-end luxury ones, I really don't think the newer 4runners have too much to be ashamed of. It'll never be a Lexus.

 

[Redsoxx1918]

Short of a completely new vehicle, Toyota shouldn't turn the 4runner into a Wrangler or even a Bronco. If you want a short wheel base toy that has limited space and load (it has to be a mix - you can't have great payload but no place to put it) but can otherwise tear the trail up on 37's you shouldn't really be buying a 4runner. The Jeep already does a great job at it. Most folks would know that getting into a T4R. Find your balance in terms of cost, size, payload, off road performance (like wheel travel, articulation, clearance etc), and on road manners and pick a vehicle accordingly. Some will fall on the two door Jeep side of that spectrum while others will fall on the Raptor, RAM or the LC200. The 4runner sits somewhere in the middle of that pack. Those "compromises" that many feel are also features that are vital in an overland vehicle especially when you are looking at moderate to long trips with 2-3 people. You can do that on a 4runner. You can't do that on a 2 door Jeep or Bronco unless you want to live with a whole host of compromises or tow a trailer. A few years ago, I drove a Ford Ranger derived long wheel base SUV in Asia. It was horrible but had 4x4 low and could pack a ton of people. The Bronco is everything that that vehicle wasn't but I doubt the folks who used it would consider trading something that small for it.. Horses for courses I suppose.

That said, keeping within this category, there are probably a ton of things Toyota can do to improve performance on the OR and above trims assuming they continue to offer those. You could easily upgrade everything that the vehicle already has and bring it to the std Toyota is capable of designing today while adding things like a front locker or the ability to clear slightly larger tires. But please keep the size. IMHO, most will be fine and continue to live with those compromises (angles) and exchange that for payload, volume and comfort.

Agreed. I’m going camping soon and will fit my wife, my dog, all my camping gear, kayaks on the roof, bikes on the trailer hitch....and be plenty comfortable to boot. You’re not doing that in a two door Wrangler or Bronco. Different tools for different jobs.


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[Redsoxx1918]

They are tanking, that's why you see incentives galore for a brand new model.

The luster has already worn off. Those things are way too expensive. Trucks and SUVs of “non luxury” brands are now more expensive than the luxury brands. A loaded up Gladiator is getting into BMW X5 territory.


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[Redsoxx1918]

It's designed by a bean counter not an enthusiast.

The reality is the 4runner doesn't do take the lead for anything in stock form, but it's good enough for all most any of it.

Design criteria is - Unless it can attract a soccer mom (or dad) it's not main stream enough to justify the engineering time. i.e. Don't count on Toyota sinking money into a specialized vehicle. They want you to modify it at your expense. They only have to put the idea out there and some 3rd party will take the risk for very little profit margin. Once it's works Toyota will mainstream it. This is the model Toyota has.

Bet you didn't know that you were a beta tester did you?

The next gen will be a hybrid. Which may not be so bad off road except for the weight. Crawling with an electric motor is much more efficient than gas and has more torque. The Rubicon is ~22 miles. That's within the battery range of most hybrids.

Hybrids might be the way forward for all Toyota trucks and SUVs. Look at what they just did with the RAV4 Prime. 302 combined horsepower with a 5.4 0-60 and 44 miles of electric only range.


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[itr1275]

Hybrids might be the way forward for all Toyota trucks and SUVs. Look at what they just did with the RAV4 Prime. 302 combined horsepower with a 5.4 0-60 and 44 miles of electric only range.

Exactly what I was thinking. Economically speaking you will never get your money back out of the gas tank though.

I did the math a few years back and going from memory here. It's something like, you you would have to drive 60K miles/year or gas would need to be $8/gal for a 7 year return on investment.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Most of us own 4Runners because of there dependability. You want to make it back. Built in Japan, I had my 2001 for almost 18 years. Didn't really need to get rid of it. Toyota 4WD's have been my daily drivers since 1982. Never left me stranded and never had any major issues. Never had extended warranties. Would you buy a 20 year old Ford, Chevy or Chrysler/Fiat, Audi, MBZ's or BM trouble you SUV's to depend on as compared to a 20 year 4Runner? Not me.