4Runner vs Wrangler - Help me decide

[4r-4ever]

From your description, you should get the 4runner. The jeeps are just way too small to carry stuff. The 4runner is good all around. Each people have their unique needs and you should base it on what you need.

Hi 4Runner enthusiasts!

I purchased a new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro in lunar rock last October. Turns out, its a lemon and Toyota is buying it back. Now I need to decide between a JL Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon and a 4Runner (ORP or TRDP).

Has anyone owned both/or came from the wrangler platform?

I'll be getting a hard top and installing some sound deadening in the event I go the wrangler route.

4Runner Pros: Larger storage space, sliding down rear window (for the dogs), readily available, great aftermarket, capable off road, best looking SUV of all time, and more plush for a DD.

4Runner Cons: Dated tech and sluggish compared to the Jeep. I can't believe it doesn't even have blindspot! I'm not a fan of the stock suspension and will change it.

Wrangler Pros: More off road capable. Top and doors off. Better tech/features. Larger aftermarket.

Wrangler Cons: Cost. Its louder on the highway. Potential reliability issues (but I can't say I'm thrilled with Toyota at the moment).

Background info: Will be used as a DD on a 9 mile each way commute. Also used on the weekends for overlanding/camping. Not serious wheeling. Plan to do some minor mods like rock sliders, lights, bumper/winch, full spare, and possibly suspension on the T4R.

 

[rdruss]

If you're going to go Jeep try the Rubicon Diesel, it looks worth a gamble.

 

[ahtoxa11]

If you're going to go Jeep try the Rubicon Diesel, it looks worth a gamble.

I'm pretty vocal against the Fiat diesel. It just doesn't have the record of reliability that would be worth it, in my opinion. The added torque and fuel economy, to me, aren't significant enough for the added complexity of the diesel, not to mention cost. And again, this motor doesn't have a good history of reliability. Italian diesel....I'm not sold on it.

 

[thennen]

If you've ever owned a kitchen utensil that has one purpose, that's kinda like the jeep imo. Great for that one purpose, but not great in every other aspect... for my needs/wants, anyway. I couldn't swallow the resale also which nobody has mentioned yet.

I'd give the 4runner another chance. The chances of the same person coming across 2 lemons is incredibly, incredibly rare. What was wrong with it, if you don't mind me asking? For the sluggishness, I'd look into a pedal commander, sprint booster, or just jump straight into a re-gear.

Actually, his 'lemon' was a Tacoma. Like you, I'm interested in what made it a lemon.

 

[Matteblack]

My 2010 4Runner has been stellar as far as reliability. It adds to the list of successful (well maintained) Toyota vehicles we have owned:

1994 ES300
1999 Avalon
2004 RX330
2010 4Runner

My first car was a Chevy S10 Blazer then I went sedan to the ES300. I then wanted to go SUV again ended up owning two Range Rovers and realized I have to go back to Toyota and that's when I bought the T4R.

That said, if the 4Runner did not exist today, with the vehicle interests and capabilities I seek now I would choose Jeep or recently, Bronco.

 

[John in NC]

Coworker bought a 4 door jeep.
He has kids in travel soccer, he got to the point where he was borrowing his parents Honda Accord for the road trips! That told me enough.
He's since bought a Subaru.

My 4runner is a road trip machine. It's no sports sedan on the highway but I can put down some comfy family fun miles.
My wife's Highlander, now that car can tame some highways for sure, but I remind her I can eat her lunch off road if the zombies come.

 

[Tuco S.]

Will be used as a DD on a 9 mile each way commute. Also used on the weekends for overlanding/camping. Not serious wheeling. Plan to do some minor mods like rock sliders, lights, bumper/winch, full spare, and possibly suspension on the T4R.

You pretty much answered it yourself. For your intended use, 4R all day long.

 

[TravelingTaco]

If you've ever owned a kitchen utensil that has one purpose, that's kinda like the jeep imo. Great for that one purpose, but not great in every other aspect... for my needs/wants, anyway. I couldn't swallow the resale also which nobody has mentioned yet.

I'd give the 4runner another chance. The chances of the same person coming across 2 lemons is incredibly, incredibly rare. What was wrong with it, if you don't mind me asking? For the sluggishness, I'd look into a pedal commander, sprint booster, or just jump straight into a re-gear.

I don't mind you asking. It has an electrical issue they cannot fix. Started to have problems around 600 miles. It currently has 1200 on the odo and half of that has been spent on so many trips to the dealership. Its also been there for the last 2+ months straight. I love paying tacoma trd pro money to drive a corolla or rav4 as my loaner.

Regarding your suggestions to either get a pedal commander or regear is part of my issue with the 4runner. I don't want to have to buy a vehicle then immediately begin moding it for it to act properly. I would want to correct the nose dive (suspension), and I certainly don't want to regear a brand new vehicle and void my warranty. The tacoma has its fair share of issues too, and many regear that as well. Its seemingly a trend with Toyota design to have improper gearing from the factory.

Toyota could also have addressed these issues in the last decade haha.

Either way, I know the 4runner is a beast, super reliable (supposedly), and is a great all around vehicle. They are the reasons I'd even consider another Toyota.

 

[thennen]

That's nothing in the grand scheme.

Sure it is. It's 1500 pounds more than the Wrangler, right? Or maybe I'm missing something. Whether it's better or not, it does what he needs.

 

[thennen]

Its seemingly a trend with Toyota design to have improper gearing from the factory.

Ever consider that Toyota (and others) has legal constraints related to corporate average fuel economy, driveability, etc., that might at least play a tiny part in their selections of gearing and other things? No automaker makes its vehicles simply to please the whims of its various owners. They have thousands of requirements for each and every vehicle. Sometimes they miss their target. Toyota is the best at hitting those targets, but they run the risk of irritating their most demanding buyers(us) when they do so.

If people place the same demands on all other manufacturers that they place on Toyotas, I think they will find that, overall, the others are worse. Excellent quality is expected from Toyota/Lexus. With many other manufacturers, it's an unexpected bonus.

 

[TravelingTaco]

Its seemingly a trend with Toyota design to have improper gearing from the factory.

Ever consider that Toyota (and others) has legal constraints related to corporate average fuel economy, driveability, etc., that might at least play a tiny part in their selections of gearing and other things? No automaker makes its vehicles simply to please the whims of its various owners. They have thousands of requirements for each and every vehicle. Sometimes they miss their target. Toyota is the best at hitting those targets, but they run the risk of irritating their most demanding buyers(us) when they do so.

If people place the same demands on all other manufacturers that they place on Toyotas, I think they will find that, overall, the others are worse. Excellent quality is expected from Toyota/Lexus. With many other manufacturers, it's an unexpected bonus.

Of course I've considered that. However, individuals who have regeared actually reported better gas mileage. From the factory the transmission almost never goes into 6th gear (on the tacoma). After regearing, it frequently uses 6th gear like its supposed (over drive gear) to and also shifts a lot less, keeping the rpms from skyrocketing. Either way, gear manufacturers are thankful Toyota geared the Tacoma's so improperly that they are making a killing. I have seen the owner of a gear company say, "Toyota really threw us a bone with this one."

 

[thennen]

Of course I've considered that. However, individuals who have regeared actually reported better gas mileage. From the factory the transmission almost never goes into 6th gear (on the tacoma). After regearing, it frequently uses 6th gear like its supposed (over drive gear) to and also shifts a lot less, keeping the rpms from skyrocketing. Either way, gear manufacturers are thankful Toyota geared the Tacoma's so improperly that they are making a killing. I have seen the owner of a gear company say, "Toyota really threw us a bone with this one."

I have a 2019 TRDOR 4Runner that averages 21MPG over 64k miles. Creeps up to 22 in the summer (winter gas vs summer? I don't know). So these guys who re-geared and reported better MPG, did they go past 22MPG on their 4Runner?

 

[TravelingTaco]

I have a 2019 TRDOR 4Runner that averages 21MPG over 64k miles. Creeps up to 22 in the summer (winter gas vs summer? I don't know). So these guys who re-geared and reported better MPG, did they go past 22MPG on their 4Runner?

Well I was referring to the Tacoma.

 

[Tuco S.]

Regarding your suggestions to either get a pedal commander or regear is part of my issue with the 4runner. I don't want to have to buy a vehicle then immediately begin moding it for it to act properly. I would want to correct the nose dive (suspension), and I certainly don't want to regear a brand new vehicle and void my warranty. The tacoma has its fair share of issues too, and many regear that as well. Its seemingly a trend with Toyota design to have improper gearing from the factory.

No one needs a pedal commander. The 4R is not sluggish.
Put your foot into it and it will move with a purpose.

The throttle mapping is actually very precise, and allows you to apply precise increments of power to the wheels at low speeds, such as when crawling over rough terrain. This provides better traction off road and also on wet/icy conditions on pavement. Think of it as using an extra long breaker bar to bust free a seized bolt. It's much easier to apply the precise amount of torque necessary to turn the bolt with a long bar compared to using a short breaker bar that you practically have to jump on with your full weight to get the bolt to finally turn.

As far as needing a regear, it's totally unnecessary unless you plan to install huge tires after a lift. Stick with oem size or 33" tires, and you'll never need a regear.

 

[4R4Pazzo]

Several mentioned the Bronco, but be prepared to wait and possibly pay a premium when they come, especially if you do not have a reservation/order in now. Looking at 2022, maybe late 2022.

For your intended use, the 4R would be perfect. And if you want to to any long highway trips, then the choice is clear = 4R

 

[thennen]

Well I was referring to the Tacoma.

Ok, understood.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

No one needs a pedal commander. The 4R is not sluggish.
Put your foot into it and it will move with a purpose.

The throttle mapping is actually very precise, and allows you to apply precise increments of power to the wheels at low speeds, such as when crawling over rough terrain. This provides better traction off road and also on wet/icy conditions on pavement. Think of it as using an extra long breaker bar to bust free a seized bolt. It's much easier to apply the precise amount of torque necessary to turn the bolt with a long bar compared to using a short breaker bar that you practically have to jump on with your full weight to get the bolt to finally turn.

As far as needing a regear, it's totally unnecessary unless you plan to install huge tires after a lift. Stick with oem size or 33" tires, and you'll never need a regear.

I would disagree, it's a noticeable dead spot; the "precision" curve at the beginning of travel is unnecessary in my opinion. Having driven 4th gens with both engines and the 5th gen regularly, there's no need for that level of "precision" besides trying force drivers to either treat the pedal as an on/off switch from a stop light or drive the vehicle like a Prius. The 5th gen is slower off the line compared to a 4th gen V6, simply because of this built in "precision," despite the 5th gen having more oomph on tap technically. There's plenty of precision to control the throttle without artificially hampering the ECM logic to basically ignore the first 1/4~1/3 of pedal travel. The Tundra is a good example of this, it's a very sensitive pedal (we've had some older folks complain about it before), but it's not that hard to toe-in with it and get just the right amount of power you need.

 

[Tuco S.]

I would disagree, it's a noticeable dead spot; the "precision" curve at the beginning of travel is unnecessary in my opinion. Having driven 4th gens with both engines and the 5th gen regularly, there's no need for that level of "precision" besides trying force drivers to either treat the pedal as an on/off switch from a stop light or drive the vehicle like a Prius. The 5th gen is slower off the line compared to a 4th gen V6, simply because of this built in "precision," despite the 5th gen having more oomph on tap technically. There's plenty of precision to control the throttle without artificially hampering the ECM logic to basically ignore the first 1/4~1/3 of pedal travel. The Tundra is a good example of this, it's a very sensitive pedal (we've had some older folks complain about it before), but it's not that hard to toe-in with it and get just the right amount of power you need.

The 4Runner throttle map sure makes it easy to drive up on Rhino ramps. If there was this "dead zone" as you describe it, it would be very tricky to do this.

I drove VW TDIs for years with manual transmissions. Those little 4 cylinder diesels had so much low end torque, even at idle without boost, that it was always tricky getting traction on slick roads from a stop. Even with brand new tires and traction control, it was tricky to avoid spinning the wheels on slick roads just by putting it in gear and releasing the clutch. I'll take the 4Runner throttle mapping over that any day. I actually like it.

The pedal commander and sprint booster seem to be pretty popular, no doubt, but I can think of a lot better ways to spend $300.

 

[SilverTEP]

I would disagree, it's a noticeable dead spot; the "precision" curve at the beginning of travel is unnecessary in my opinion. Having driven 4th gens with both engines and the 5th gen regularly, there's no need for that level of "precision" besides trying force drivers to either treat the pedal as an on/off switch from a stop light or drive the vehicle like a Prius. The 5th gen is slower off the line compared to a 4th gen V6, simply because of this built in "precision," despite the 5th gen having more oomph on tap technically. There's plenty of precision to control the throttle without artificially hampering the ECM logic to basically ignore the first 1/4~1/3 of pedal travel. The Tundra is a good example of this, it's a very sensitive pedal (we've had some older folks complain about it before), but it's not that hard to toe-in with it and get just the right amount of power you need.

Agreed, there is def a dead spot in acceleration / torque with the 4runner. I'm sure it's all made for MPGs.

I drove a early 2000s Pathfinder with 3.5 engine and that thing just pulled like crazy, just pressing the gas pedal your car would lurch forward, it felt great... but the difference was 9 mpg vs 4runner's 16 mpg city driving.

 

[Kamalani Mahie]

I've owned both. A 2016 JKU and now my 2018 ORP. If you don't need the capability I'd stick with the 4Runner. It's a much more solid vehicle, more comfortable, more reliable (your experience is very uncommon), and has much more room inside. It also still has a great aftermarket.

But, if you are looking to try something new a JL Rubicon is an amazing vehicle and will get you anywhere you need to go right out of the box. There isn't a more fun driving experience than top/doors off and the community is pretty great too. FCA reliability is still questionable, but it's gotten much better in the last few years. Just don't get an angry grille please....

Yes please no angry grille.....

Based on the OP's description of his/her vehicle needs, I would say 4runner. It's going to be the more comfortable DD but still very capable offroad, and have more gear capacity. I don't think my lifted 5th gen 4runner on 33s and fully armored is sluggish. Definitely could use a bit more torque but even when I'm loaded and heavy there's still enough under the hood to keep me moving.