4th Gen alignment HELP!! after SPC install

[fast325it]

Hi All,

I have been chasing a darting front end for years now on my 2006 LTD V8. It has 220,000 and runs great. After both Moog lower ball joints failed in under 10,000 miles I decided to replace EVERYTHING and had a competent repair facility install new OEM lower control arms, new SPC adjustable upper control arms, new camber & caster alignment bolts along with the bolt bushings and adjustment plates. Last year I replaced the steering box bushings, shocks (Gabriel OEM style) and tie rods. With the exception of the SPC upper control arms and FJ springs everything is OEM Toyota.

I thought I was well on my way to having a like new front end again. However, the shop could not get the caster right. Even after maxing out the SPC adjustment on the driver's side the attached pic of the alignment shows the caster specs still WAY OUT of spec. He matched the passenger side caster to make it drive "better". UGH, I still have a darty truck!! And, the tires now rub the rear of the fender liner when the steering is turned hard left or hard right. The tech said the frame is likely bent but, I've never hit anything or jumped or been in an accident and I've owned it since new.

Is this an incompetent alignment tech or do you think I have something else going on here? The truck is in awesome shape and I fully expect it to go another 100,000 miles. Before I address the timing belt and components again I'd really like to figure out what's going on with the front end. It's not easy to drive!!

Any thoughts?? PLEASE HELP!

TIA!!
-John

 

[blackoutt]

Pics of where you SPC arms are adjusted to and pics of your LCA alignment cam orientations front and rear? Sounds like either incompetent tech or not straight 4runner.

 

[NinjaOne]

rear suspension can contribute. Rear trailing/panhard bushings good and arms torqued correctly?

Rear neg camber could play an impact as well. You have almost 2° difference in camber in the rear

 

[Johnny4runner]

What setting are your SPC ucas on? Looks like you should turn the caster down one or two settings. Since you are not lifting your front much, you probably don't need to add much caster with the ucas. Some would also say that higher caster numbers than OME is fine, it will make the truck more stable at speed--not darty.

Best, J4R

 

[Macallan]

Sounds like an incompetent place...

 

[zeekevin]

find a better shop to align the rig, with the size tire you are running with the lift you don’t need that much caster at all. 2.5-3 should be plenty.

With the spc arms a competent tech should be able to get the numbers to match up evenly

 

[fast325it]

Thanks for the feedback fellas. I was told the driver side upper control arm was at its max setting. Without this it would have been much worse. It handles like a track car with the castor settings but is very darty on uneven roads. I have stock 18” wheels and tires on now but would never be able to put my winter BFGs on now. They would rub without any steering input. The wheels need to be moved forward.

Attached are pics I took over the weekend.

 

[zeekevin]

Looks like your left rear cam tab is flat, you need to get that fixed, look up the spc guide for the ball joint setting, it looks a bit off

 

[Macallan]

yah, you need to go to another more competent place. Thats all wrong....

 

[Johnny4runner]

I cannot tell what the UCA are set from the pictures, but based on both of the rear cams being set to take the max caster out of the wheel, I'm pretty confident that your UCA is set for too much caster. Set the UCA for lower caster and there will be enough range in the rear cam to get caster within spec.

I'm not sure what your alignment tech knows about the UCAs or what conversations you had with them, but generally techs will not touch the UCA because it is not part of alignment procedure. If the SPC UCA was installed at the "standard" caster correction setting I can virtually guarantee that at your lift, you will have too much caster. I'm lifted 3" in front and I had to dial the caster correction back because my front wheels were getting into the back of my wheel arch when I turned.

Figure out what the UCA caster setting is, and I think you will figure out your issue.

Best, J4R

 

[BackOff]

SPC UCA are +2* castor built in.
You should set the cams to 0/D. That is +2* to start with and all the way to the out side.
Then get it aligned.

 

[blackoutt]

It looks like as mentioned above your upper ball joints are set to too high of caster setting for your lift level. Go back to the "base" D setting. Also it looks like your alignment tech is trying to get all the camber out with only the lower control arm adjusters, there's TONS of camber adjustment in the upper ball joint now as well. My local tirebarn wouldn't touch it so I adjusted it in their parking lot and sent it back in. Bottom line is if you can find a competent tech and explain that the upper ball joint has camber adjustment too. Their computer doesn't tell them that.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Hi All,

I have been chasing a darting front end for years now on my 2006 LTD V8. It has 220,000 and runs great. After both Moog lower ball joints failed in under 10,000 miles I decided to replace EVERYTHING and had a competent repair facility install new OEM lower control arms, new SPC adjustable upper control arms, new camber & caster alignment bolts along with the bolt bushings and adjustment plates. Last year I replaced the steering box bushings, shocks (Gabriel OEM style) and tie rods. With the exception of the SPC upper control arms and FJ springs everything is OEM Toyota.

I thought I was well on my way to having a like new front end again. However, the shop could not get the caster right. Even after maxing out the SPC adjustment on the driver's side the attached pic of the alignment shows the caster specs still WAY OUT of spec. He matched the passenger side caster to make it drive "better". UGH, I still have a darty truck!! And, the tires now rub the rear of the fender liner when the steering is turned hard left or hard right. The tech said the frame is likely bent but, I've never hit anything or jumped or been in an accident and I've owned it since new.

Is this an incompetent alignment tech or do you think I have something else going on here? The truck is in awesome shape and I fully expect it to go another 100,000 miles. Before I address the timing belt and components again I'd really like to figure out what's going on with the front end. It's not easy to drive!!

Any thoughts?? PLEASE HELP!

TIA!!
-John

I'm a 3rd gen guy but whenever I see these alignment threads pop up I have to look at them because I know a little about the subject as I used to train techs on alignment after I installed their alignment machine.

You have A LOT going on. You're cross caster (the difference side to side in the 2 caster readings) will have you pull right as you will pull to the side that's more negative. Your cross camber will have you pull to the left as you pull to the more positive side. This may be causing your're truck to "fight" to stay straight which may be what your feeling. Also, obviously, your caster is way too long which will make your steering feel a little too sluggish and a little hard to turn.
Furthermore your cross camber in the rear is way off which according to those readings will pull to the left, but since it's in the rear it will push the truck to the right. The rear is a solid axle and is not adjustable so either you have a control arm bushing(s) that is toast, something is bent, or the tech didn't mount the targets on the wheel properly.

You really should be able to get the front into perfect alignment with those SPC arms (assuming your lower cams are moving freely). That bent tab is either an indication that the tech doesn't know what he's doing and tried turning the cams without loosening the cam bolt or the cam is frozen and he turned it having the same affect as not loosening the bolt.

I definitely see some "amateurness" here. He's one of those techs that thinks if it's in the green it's good when that is not the case (ie your camber is more negative on one side and more positive on the other side causing 1.4 degrees cross camber) Cross camber/caster should be no more than .5 degrees side to side.
On a positive note, your toe is perfect though but that's the easiest angle to correct.
I always watch techs align my truck and I ask to see a printout before they align. Then when they align it if it needs caster and or camber adjustment and I see them start to align toe I go to the manager and ask for a more experienced tech because the LAST adjustment you make is toe.

Take it to another shop.

 

[Johnny4runner]

Mine must be set for E then because I dialed mine back one setting from the recommended setting, which still gave me good numbers at a 3" lift. It's also easier to get the camber in spec if the tech is not fighting to get the caster in spec. For what its worth I also moved my ball joints about 1/2" inboard from the outer most setting. I've heard from most that they run them with the ball joints at the outer most setting.

My last alignment after I tweaked the control arms per above.

 

[BackOff]

Mine must be set for E then because I dialed mine back one setting from the recommended setting, which still gave me good numbers at a 3" lift. It's also easier to get the camber in spec if the tech is not fighting to get the caster in spec. For what its worth I also moved my ball joints about 1/2" inboard from the outer most setting. I've heard from most that they run them with the ball joints at the outer most setting.

My last alignment after I tweaked the control arms per above.

I had the ball joint set about 1/2" originally.
With larger tires on stock wheels I would rub the UCA at full extension.
Forget about getting snow chains on it.

Different offset wheels or spacers...no problem.

 

[fast325it]

Ugh

Without being incriminating I inquired with the tech about the caster settings and he said the driver side UCA had to be set at max setting. I'm not sure if that is a result of other settings being set first or if he needed to make that adjustment first.

All of the adjustment cams, bolts and bushings are new. They should move freely and were installed with new OEM LCAs along with new SPC UCAs.

I will take it to a different alignment shop. Before I do so can someone tell me more about the tab that bent/broke? How can you tell? Which tab is it?

Any recommendations for an alignment shop in Milwaukee or north of Milwaukee?

THANK YOU ALL!

 

[gm350reratliff]

I would take it to another shop and have them start from scratch. I would have them start with everything in the neutral position, meaning LCA cams and SPC UCAs set at the 0* position with the ball joint centered in the arm. I would check the alignment and go from there. The SPC arms add 2* right off the bat so the upper ball joints may have to be set at the -1 or -2* degree setting to keep the caster reasonable. I like the caster on the high end of the range on this platform and even well above the spec range on lifted applications. If the vehicle is still darting on the road, it may be time to replace the steering rack.

 

[Ncbenz]

I would take it to a new shop. Sometimes techs get complacent with things being out of spec if there's aftermarket suspension.

 

[fast325it]

I took it to a shop that the local 4x4 shop recommended and they were able to get everything in spec. They started from zero as mentioned above and had to do it twice because they ran out of tie rod adjustment for toe. After using the lower control arm caster adjustment to move the wheels forward they were able to get it right. Of course, there was an additional charge for “non OEM” parts but at least it done and handles great with no wheel rub!

 

[Chris In Milwaukee]

I took it to a shop that the local 4x4 shop recommended and they were able to get everything in spec. They started from zero as mentioned above and had to do it twice because they ran out of tie rod adjustment for toe. After using the lower control arm caster adjustment to move the wheels forward they were able to get it right. Of course, there was an additional charge for “non OEM” parts but at least it done and handles great with no wheel rub!

I know I'm reviving an older thread, but if you're still around, would you please let us know which shop you were referred to? I live up in G'town, and I could certainly use a knowledgeable shop when I get to upgrading my suspension.