5th Gen Caliper Install Gone Wrong?

[Arthur4R]

Thank you for that. It's really helpful. Mine look similar except my rears are more worn which is somewhat expected since my rears a 4th gen parts that have about 1 year more wear than the new fronts.



How much pedal travel do you have on an average stop?

I would say close to 30-40% before it starts stopping or 2-3 inches before you really feel the car stopping. I feel that is a bit much and should engage close to 20% that is why I am doing a second brake fluid flush today as I noticed some air last week when I was doing it and ran out of fresh brake fluid. I got 64 ounces this time around to make sure I get all of the air out the system. It is strange as rears keep showing air while the front had no air. I had a same exact issue in my GS350 where it required more then usual pedal travel to feel the car stopping no matter what I did I never solved it. I just considered it normal and got used to it. I will be fully convinced that this is normal for a brake pedal to travel this much once I get rid of all the air in the rear calipers. I used 4th gen rotors in the rear with 5th gen calipers.

 

[07V8]

I would say close to 30-40% before it starts stopping or 2-3 inches before you really feel the car stopping. I feel that is a bit much and should engage close to 20% that is why I am doing a second brake fluid flush today as I noticed some air last week when I was doing it and ran out of fresh brake fluid. I got 64 ounces this time around to make sure I get all of the air out the system. It is strange as rears keep showing air while the front had no air. I had a same exact issue in my GS350 where it required more then usual pedal travel to feel the car stopping no matter what I did I never solved it. I just considered it normal and got used to it. I will be fully convinced that this is normal for a brake pedal to travel this much once I get rid of all the air in the rear calipers. I used 4th gen rotors in the rear with 5th gen calipers.

How is the pedal feel when you double press?

 

[fdbyrne]

How is the pedal feel when you double press?

I know you weren't talking to me, but I'll chime in anyway.

Up until I got everything bleed good at the dealership yesterday, the first pump was squishy then it firmed up on the second pump. Now there's no difference if I pump or not.

 

[nevada]

A few months ago I bought a Tacoma and handed down my 4Runner to the wife.
Right before I gave it to her, I installed a set of 5th gen front calipers, rotors, and pads. I got in it to exercise the 4x4 system the other day and was surprised how much peddle travel there was compared to my Tacoma. She's clueless about anything automotive and just thought it was normal.

Basically, it's braking using mostly the rear brakes. After 2 months of daily driving, there is very little wear on the new front rotors. They do heat up a little during a normal drive, but nothing compared to the rears.

Here's the whole story...

I replaced all the rotors, pads, and calipers all the way around about a year ago and changed the brake fluid while I was at it. All was well for quite a while but then one of the new front calipers started sticking. Knowing that I was going to have it for a while and that my wife was going to abuse the shit out of it, I went ahead and put new 5th gen calipers, rotors, and pads up front before giving it to her. I left the rear setup alone.

I likely got a little air in the lines during the swap. I'll own up to that. However, I just had the dealer flush the lines and bleed the brakes using the technology they had available and it still isn't right. According to the dealer, the booster/master is working fine.

All I know is that the truck is using the rear brakes for about 80% of the stopping power. What should I do to rectify this? The fronts aren't even hardly bedded in after these last few months of her stop-and-go, I'm afraid of the highway, driving.

don't the 5th gen calipers have a larger bore?
if so, they will require a larger bore MC to maintain the same pedal feel as before.

I haven't much looked into using 5th gen parts on my 4th gen, as my brakes are phenomenal.

I know this is somewhat of a common swap, how are people dealing with the larger piston bores, and the extra fluid volume required?

 

[wadle5]

I don't really know who you're directing this question to, but my rears are 4th gen and are about a year older than my fronts which are 5th gen.

So the rears are showing more wear because they are a year older? Would that explain some of it?

HONEST Question?

 

[fdbyrne]

So the rears are showing more wear because they are a year older? Would that explain some of it?

HONEST Question?

It's not just more wear from age. I assume they are doing more than their fair share of the stopping because they heat up so much more than the fronts.

 

[Bob22222]

What NEVADA said x 2

If it were mine I'd drop the coin spend a couple of hours and put the stuff that belongs back on there.

 

[collierunner]

I have the same set up as OP. Replaced the rears in April of 2015 (4th gen) and the fronts May 2016 (5th gen).

It took me a good three times bleeding the brakes to get all the air out.

I had an issue (snapped caliper bolt, had to go to the junk yard for a new steering knuckle)and I had a brake line off for more than 24 hrs.

The first and second time I bleed them they felt as if brakes had more pressure on the second application of the brake pedal.

The third time I bleed them they felt the same regardless of brake application and the pedal feel is very linear. The motor for the brakes doesn't seem to run as often. I've had the set up for 5k now and the rotors still look fresh. I used all centric parts. I'm actually really happy with the set up.

All I can suggest and try bleeding the brakes again. I just followed the instructions on here. I'm sure a good shop could do a better job then me, but I'm cheap.

 

[07V8]

I have the same set up as OP. Replaced the rears in April of 2015 (4th gen) and the fronts May 2016 (5th gen).

It took me a good three times bleeding the brakes to get all the air out.

I had an issue (snapped caliper bolt, had to go to the junk yard for a new steering knuckle)and I had a brake line off for more than 24 hrs.

The first and second time I bleed them they felt as if brakes had more pressure on the second application of the brake pedal.

The third time I bleed them they felt the same regardless of brake application and the pedal feel is very linear. The motor for the brakes doesn't seem to run as often. I've had the set up for 5k now and the rotors still look fresh. I used all centric parts. I'm actually really happy with the set up.

All I can suggest and try bleeding the brakes again. I just followed the instructions on here. I'm sure a good shop could do a better job then me, but I'm cheap.

How did you bleed the brakes? Again, honest question. The bite and braking force is much more pronounced on the second press for me.

 

[Arthur4R]

The extra fluid required in the 5th gen is minimal if any, I did not notice a difference at all.I used Motive brake bleeder to do my brakes, also front rotors heat up faster and also cool down faster as they do most of the braking. OP why are we comparing rear rotors that are a year old probably have 8-10k miles on it to fresh brand new brakes? You are confusing yourself with it. Did the wife complain that the car barely stops? Did you ever drive a car with a seized caliper or a seized piston? It requires the brake pedal almost to the floor to get some stopping power. I listed all of the possible ways to check that your calipers are working properly I can't think of anything else. Well one other piece you can disconnect you abs fuse, it will disable your abs completely. Drive at 20 mph and slam the brakes all 4 tires should lock up, if the front don't then you actually have an issue.

 

[Arthur4R]

How is the pedal feel when you double press?

There was a slight difference, but this time around I flushed it and got all of the air out. Pedal feel is a bit better not exactly what I thought it would of been. I am chalking this up as normal now and calling it a day. I used over 128 ounces of brake fluid so my system is plenty of fresh brake fluid now. I will come back to flushing it in 30k miles.

 

[collierunner]

How did you bleed the brakes? Again, honest question. The bite and braking force is much more pronounced on the second press for me.

There was instructions somewhere on the 5th gen caliper thread tha i followed. It took some time and one big bottle and two small bottles Valvoline syn.

 

[Billynath1988]

something is off there.... either you have a wrong part.. or you need to get your lines rebled.

I installed the 5th gen brake upgrade and have put about 6k miles since.. also live in NY. and couldnt be happier.

 

[Slowgoat]

I had a super spongy pedal after my 5th gen front brake upgrade too, and couldn't get it dialed until I found this thread:

First, get the stealership to redo the work right this time and it shouldn't cost you anything more.
If you want to avoid the stealer in the first place, then you can DIY and only pay for brake fluid.

See the attached pages from the FSM.

There is nothing wrong with the Master Cylinder unless you have the dash brake light or ABS light on and have thrown a code.

I've been through this (with multiple caliper changes) and here is what I found works for me to eliminate the spongy pedal.
Ignore the content in the document about the tester.
It's an electric MC pump so start by bleeding with the ignition ON, engine off. The order is somewhere in the document.
Even with a good bleeding you need to finish with step 2a & b (or 5a). If you have previously done a good bleed then skip right to this step. Do the following with the ignition OFF. They say depress the pedal 40 times but here is where they are short on detail. Forty quick on/off cycles is a waste of time. Do 15 or 20 second cycles. Think of how slow air bubbles travel in brake fluid. Depress and hold the brake for 20 seconds, then let go and wait 20 seconds. Imitate the normal braking stroke as if driving. Repeat 40 times. The pedal may bottom out but hold it there. You will feel the pedal go solid at around 20 cycles but don't stop the cycles there. Do 40 cycles. Give yourself 30 minutes to do this.
Repeat as needed over several days and your brake feel will return.

Hope this helps.

The whole thread is great, but do the 40 sloooooow pumps with the key off before trying anything else!!

It worked like a charm for me.

I bet it will work in your situation.

Here is the whole thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/132120-brakes-need-pumped-twice-work-correctly.html

There is a lot of great info in that thread, and it should be easier to search for (it took a while and I knew what words to search for).

Good luck! :cheers:

 

[07V8]

I had a super spongy pedal after my 5th gen front brake upgrade too, and couldn't get it dialed until I found this thread:



The whole thread is great, but do the 40 sloooooow pumps with the key off before trying anything else!!

It worked like a charm for me.

I bet it will work in your situation.

There is a lot of great info in that thread, and it should be easier to search for (it took a while and I knew what words to search for).

Good luck! :cheers:

Interesting....Do you bleed the brakes again after doing the extended press and hold cycles?

 

[Slowgoat]

Interesting....Do you bleed the brakes again after doing the extended press and hold cycles?

Nope. Try it and see if it works. No bleeding.

Read [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]'s post (#9 in that thread), just below the one I quoted above. I edited the above post to add a link to the thread itself.

 

[07V8]

Nope. Try it and see if it works. No bleeding.

Will do - how hard did you press?

 

[Arthur4R]

I had a super spongy pedal after my 5th gen front brake upgrade too, and couldn't get it dialed until I found this thread:



The whole thread is great, but do the 40 sloooooow pumps with the key off before trying anything else!!

It worked like a charm for me.

I bet it will work in your situation.

Here is the whole thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/132120-brakes-need-pumped-twice-work-correctly.html

There is a lot of great info in that thread, and it should be easier to search for (it took a while and I knew what words to search for).

Good luck! :cheers:

So I just did the 40 slow pumps and noticed some difference, Thank you for that

 

[Slowgoat]

Will do - how hard did you press?

Firmly until you feel resistance. All the way basically.

 

[AluminumMonster]

Looks like this thread will get you straightened out. I used Speed Bleeders, every trick found in this thread, tons of brake fluid and it still didn't feel "right" after my 5th Gen caliper swap. I took it to the dealership and asked them to flush the brake fluid. Felt fine ever since, haven't had any issues. I don't know if there is some kind of magic bleeding procedure with the computer, or if it's all in my head. Good luck!